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Old December 1st, 2011, 01:56 AM   #4761
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Weren't, e.g., the Stockwell, tube tunnels enlarged some 20 years into service?

Tell me, please, was any mitigation devised into the platform-edge doors on the Jubilee Line extension to minimise pestersome draught? For instance, what's the likelihood of the back-and-forth suctions buckling the door and panel frames over the years? I'm curious, because the elderly are more often the ones hurt (bruisings, fractures, concussions) when entering or exiting Montreal's (entirely indoor) metro station doorways at street level.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 02:59 PM   #4762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Highest altitude above sea level = Metropolitan Line at Amersham = 147m (as the LU / NR boundary is some way west of Amersham, the actual highest point is about 150m)

Lowest depth below sea level = Jubilee Line = 32m... Not sure exactly where, I'm guessing Waterloo as it passes below the Bakerloo and Northern Lines there... the westbound platform at Westminster is extremely deep, a whole flight of escalators deeper than the eastbound, so maybe here

Steepest gradient = 1/28 between Bow Road and Bromley-By-Bow

Some useful facts

Also here
Thankyou sir.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 06:34 PM   #4763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazza2 View Post
Hi Tubeman,
Something I have wondered, but why was the Victoria line built with such narrow tunnels?

Obviously the network built prior in the 19th C / Early 20th C would have been dictated by the engineering and construction methods of the time, and the population being smaller in stature back then (Hence getting away with narrow, low roofed trains)

But for a independent line being built in the 60s I thought they'd have built the whole thing at a more comfortable scale.

.....Or is it simply that the Victoria line reused existing tunnels in some portions, so rather than widening them, they just built the whole line to match the width of the segments they were 'recycling' ?
The only significant bits of pre-existing tunnel used by the Victoria Line were built by the Great Northern & City Line, but these are surface stock size ironically.

To be fair, while Tube carriages feel claustrophobic, only a small minority of people are too tall to board without stooping. It's a very economical use of space... far less volume of tunnelling work required.

Another consideration is that the Victoria Line is only accessible via the Piccadilly Line, so the trains can't be any bigger than their tunnels. I guess this could have been addressed by simply connecting Northumberland Park depot to British Rail for rolling stock delivery, but unless the line was totally self-contained, there'd still be the issue of getting rolling stock to Acton Works for heavy maintenance.

A final economy is the fact that by being Tube-sized, the Victoria Line rolling stock can be more cheaply devised... for example the 1967 stock car bodies were pretty much identical to 1972 stock.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 06:38 PM   #4764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
Weren't, e.g., the Stockwell, tube tunnels enlarged some 20 years into service?
The entire City & South London Railway (Euston to Clapham Common via Bank) was enlarged 1922-24 because the tunnels were originally even smaller than current standard Tube size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
Tell me, please, was any mitigation devised into the platform-edge doors on the Jubilee Line extension to minimise pestersome draught? For instance, what's the likelihood of the back-and-forth suctions buckling the door and panel frames over the years? I'm curious, because the elderly are more often the ones hurt (bruisings, fractures, concussions) when entering or exiting Montreal's (entirely indoor) metro station doorways at street level.
The doors seem pretty robust, but with the TBTC system increasing acceleration / deceleration and train speeds I guess they must be taking a bit more of a battering these days.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 07:15 PM   #4765
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Hmph, Montreal's authority wanted to raise maximum speed to 50MPH from 45MPH, but it would appear they got too much flack for it (years later, it hasn't happened) I don't think their tracks could take the hammering, considering their newer fleet's the one without suspension.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 09:33 PM   #4766
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Hmm......

Any plans to increase the maximum limit for Oyster cards (the current max limit is 90 British Pounds)?

I figured that, unless you're using Travelcards, the GBP90 limit may be a bit too little (?) relative to the cost/price range of a train ride/journey in the United Kingdom

Just a thought

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Technically, it should be possible. Philips MIFARE can store as much as up to 10,000 units of currency (i.e. Easy Card by Taipei Smart Card Corporation of Taiwan)
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 10:53 PM   #4767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackraven View Post
Hmm......

Any plans to increase the maximum limit for Oyster cards (the current max limit is 90 British Pounds)?

I figured that, unless you're using Travelcards, the GBP90 limit may be a bit too little (?) relative to the cost/price range of a train ride/journey in the United Kingdom

Just a thought

P.S.
Technically, it should be possible. Philips MIFARE can store as much as up to 10,000 units of currency (i.e. Easy Card by Taipei Smart Card Corporation of Taiwan)
Dunno... for me it's a bit moot, as you can put on auto top-up so it's effectively limitless... I can't see why such an amount would be necessary really... of course you can technically put thousands of pounds on by putting a year's zones 1-6 travelcard onto Oyster; and then obviously you'd never pay anything additional for any journeys as they're already paid for.

I guess if inter-city travel became covered by Oyster then you might have a point, but until then the limit seems sufficient.
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Old December 4th, 2011, 03:33 PM   #4768
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Ah I see.

I reckon though that some additional services (like as you mentioned auto top-up for linking the Oyster card to an online account) are only available to locals. Hence, I was thinking that it it will not apply for cardholders who are foreign tourists or any other non-UK resident or outsider.

Just a thought.

Perhaps maybe a small bump wouldn't hurt, now would it? (maybe until GBP100)

P.S.
Off-topic:
I was browsing fare tables a while ago:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14416.aspx
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Old December 6th, 2011, 03:42 AM   #4769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
The only significant bits of pre-existing tunnel used by the Victoria Line were built by the Great Northern & City Line, but these are surface stock size ironically.

To be fair, while Tube carriages feel claustrophobic, only a small minority of people are too tall to board without stooping. It's a very economical use of space... far less volume of tunnelling work required.

Another consideration is that the Victoria Line is only accessible via the Piccadilly Line, so the trains can't be any bigger than their tunnels. I guess this could have been addressed by simply connecting Northumberland Park depot to British Rail for rolling stock delivery, but unless the line was totally self-contained, there'd still be the issue of getting rolling stock to Acton Works for heavy maintenance.

A final economy is the fact that by being Tube-sized, the Victoria Line rolling stock can be more cheaply devised... for example the 1967 stock car bodies were pretty much identical to 1972 stock.
Where does this link with the Picadilly occur? Is it a connecting tunnel?
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Old December 6th, 2011, 08:25 PM   #4770
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Where does this link with the Picadilly occur? Is it a connecting tunnel?
Finsbury Park, just south of the platforms

The four tube platforms at FPK are all 1900's vintage.

Pre-Victoria Line, the western pair of platforms were the Piccadilly platforms, and the eastern the Great Northern & City Line. With the advent of the Victoria Line, the western pair became the northbound Pic/Vic platforms with cross platform interchange, and the eastern pair the southbound. This allowed the crossover caverns south of each former terminus to accommodate NB-NB and SB-SB links between the Pic and Vic Lines.

...if that makes sense?
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Old December 6th, 2011, 09:25 PM   #4771
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Was Finsbury Park the terminus of the Northern City Line, or did it to emerge to join the ECML?
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Old December 7th, 2011, 01:32 PM   #4772
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it ended there - IIRC Great Northern's mood changed on it, and blocked the GN&C from taking over the Northern Heights, so the GN&C changed their plans for a sub-terrainous station at Finsbury Park. When they (well BR a lot later) re-extended the line north of Drayton Park (as the Victoria line cut it off), they finally did what was the original plan (though taking over different routes as the Northern Heights had closed).
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Old December 8th, 2011, 01:31 AM   #4773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Finsbury Park, just south of the platforms

The four tube platforms at FPK are all 1900's vintage.

Pre-Victoria Line, the western pair of platforms were the Piccadilly platforms, and the eastern the Great Northern & City Line. With the advent of the Victoria Line, the western pair became the northbound Pic/Vic platforms with cross platform interchange, and the eastern pair the southbound. This allowed the crossover caverns south of each former terminus to accommodate NB-NB and SB-SB links between the Pic and Vic Lines.

...if that makes sense?
OOHHH that, I actually knew that. Thanks for the memory jog. Finsbury Park is quite an interesting situation when you look at it. Surface lines too.
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Old December 9th, 2011, 01:05 AM   #4774
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it ended there - IIRC Great Northern's mood changed on it, and blocked the GN&C from taking over the Northern Heights, so the GN&C changed their plans for a sub-terrainous station at Finsbury Park. When they (well BR a lot later) re-extended the line north of Drayton Park (as the Victoria line cut it off), they finally did what was the original plan (though taking over different routes as the Northern Heights had closed).
Correct, the only connection in the end was a single track between Ashburton Grove goods (now Emirates stadium) and Drayton Park Depot for stock transfer. Earthworks for the ramps between the GNCR and GNR finally started to be built as part of the LT 'new works' programmes pre-WW2, but these were abandoned without seeing rails when the plug was pulled on the Northern Line 'Northern Heights' take-over. The connection was finally realised in 1976 courtesy of BR.
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Old December 11th, 2011, 09:46 PM   #4775
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OK, so flood barriers were installed to protect the system in case a WW2 bomb breached a section of tunnel which passes under the Thames - but is that all?
Tell me, what's the state of the Underground's floodgates, e.g., are their bearings oiled, are they tested periodically?
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Old December 12th, 2011, 12:11 AM   #4776
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Tell me, what's the state of the Underground's floodgates, e.g., are their bearings oiled, are they tested periodically?
As far as I am aware, they are technically functional, at least they were on the District Line when I worked on it... But I'm not aware of them being tested. I guess testing is deemed too risky (e.g. the risk of them failing 'down' and buggering up the service).

Certainly on the District there were still signals associated with floodgates... Normally a driver can pass a signal remaining at danger without authority if they have had no contact or explanation for 2 minutes, provided it is an A-series automatic signal (basically any signal protecting plain line with no points). However, the last signal before a 'controlled' or semi-automatic area has an 'X' prefix and a driver cannot pass this without authority... and there are still a handful of working X signals associated with floodgates... obviously you don't want a train passing under a floodgate as it closes.
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Old December 12th, 2011, 10:47 AM   #4777
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What's your take on the success or otherwise of the 'Teacup' service on the Circle Line? Is there improved reliability and are there any capacity/turnaround problems at Edgware Road?

Thanks in advance.
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Old December 12th, 2011, 08:27 PM   #4778
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Quote:
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obviously you don't want a train passing under a floodgate as it closes.


Thank you.
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Old December 12th, 2011, 10:11 PM   #4779
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Hi Tubeman. I'm sure this question has been asked before but I can't find it!

Anyway. I have been in London over the weekend and couldn't help noticing the Lazer measurement devices and mirrors on various platforms and escalator shafts. Obviously they are for measuring something but what exactly? Movement in the tunnels?
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Old December 13th, 2011, 12:49 AM   #4780
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Hi Tubeman. I'm sure this question has been asked before but I can't find it!

Anyway. I have been in London over the weekend and couldn't help noticing the Lazer measurement devices and mirrors on various platforms and escalator shafts. Obviously they are for measuring something but what exactly? Movement in the tunnels?
Yes, movement in existing tunnels in the vicinity of building works... so there'll be plenty anywhere near Crossrail... There were loads at King's Cross St Pancras during the huge rebuilding there too.

I used to watch the little gizmo housing the infrared beam waiting for my Piccadilly train to Earl's Court... every few seconds it whirrs and moves to bounce a beam of a different prism, so continually taking a series of measurements. There at least it was a small greenish contraption suspended above the track, looking a bit like those telescopes you get on the seafront (just a lot smaller).
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