daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old February 24th, 2006, 01:09 AM   #461
Rational Plan
Registered User
 
Rational Plan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Slough
Posts: 3,672
Likes (Received): 678

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman
Stratford trains can only go towards Lewisham or The City, as the junction points west at Poplar. Don't forget the Stratford International extension will provide trains from Woolwich Arsenal and Beckton (and perhaps Barking Reach?) to Stratford.

I would strongly suspect that Beckton and Woolwich will both get direct trains to Canary Wharf at some point soon as more and more yuppie flats go up in the Royal Docks.
I'm not so sure. Considering that the Bank - Lewisham route has become the core route for the DLR and the number of train paths through the flying junction north of West India Quay are fully occupied. I think the difference in journey time between changing at Canning Town for Canary wharf (which is just two stops on the Jubilee line) in comparison to five stops on the DLR.

On the other hand if Crossrail is ever built a lot of DLR traffic to the city could reduce, allowing a change in the service pattern. But when the Jubilee line was built, they expected a big drop in passenger numbers on the city route as south London commuters and people from the West End no longer used the DLR, but as development intensified and the DLR tapped into the Kent commuter market in Lewisham, traffic figures soared. So any drop in City traffic could be compensated by increased commuter traffic, especially if they extend the line further South.

By the way the map looks good Tubeman. Does it include proposed rail infrastructure?
Rational Plan no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old February 24th, 2006, 02:17 AM   #462
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3272

^
Nothing proposed... I decided against it as it would make an already complex map messy. Its got Under Construction and approved lines on it (e.g. Woolwich DLR, ELLE to Dalston and CTRL).
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2006, 11:23 AM   #463
Capzilla
robkaper.nl
 
Capzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 5,897

That's okay we'll just have to buy the second edition in five years then!
__________________
Rob Kaper
Capzilla no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2006, 01:16 PM   #464
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3272

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capzilla
That's okay we'll just have to buy the second edition in five years then!
Yes hopefully my Niece's name will be spelled correctly in the dedication by then

Its the only part of my Visio document they re-typed, and they spelled 'Jemima' as 'Jemime'

I've told my sister we'll have to rename her 'Jemime' for the sake of consistency... She's only 4 months... she'll be none the wiser!
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2006, 02:33 PM   #465
pricemazda
Titter ye not.
 
pricemazda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: EU
Posts: 17,642
Likes (Received): 1384

Does it have the geographical tube map overlayed with a streetmap?

I have always wondered exactly where the tube goes in relation to the surface.
pricemazda no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2006, 06:01 PM   #466
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3272

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricemazda
Does it have the geographical tube map overlayed with a streetmap?

I have always wondered exactly where the tube goes in relation to the surface.
No, no streets... It would just become a complete mess then!

All of the railways are plotted following their true geographical routes, if you compare it to an A to Z it should be relatively easy to follow the underground routes (each page is equal to 4 A to Z pages, this is how I drew the map!). All of the 'Yerkes' era tubes followed the roads above precisely, so these are very easy to follow. A line like the Victoria Line is more difficult to follow... even I'm not sure of its exact route, say, between Highbury & Islington and King's Cross. Suffice to say it is direct as possible with gentle curves.
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2006, 06:13 PM   #467
pricemazda
Titter ye not.
 
pricemazda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: EU
Posts: 17,642
Likes (Received): 1384

I am interested in the 3d side of a tube map. I want to see how far from the surface and the layout of stations and how the tracks work in relation to each other.

I just realised this is verging on the territory on the trainspotter, i withdraw my statement and am about to go shoot myself in the head!

Last edited by pricemazda; February 25th, 2006 at 08:40 PM.
pricemazda no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2006, 06:45 PM   #468
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3272

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricemazda
I am interested in the 3d side of a tube map. I want to see how far from the surface and the layout of stations and how the tracks work in relation to each other.
That would be some project, a 3-D interactive London Railway Map...

Maybe one day!
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2006, 08:38 PM   #469
sweek
Registered User
 
sweek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London NW1
Posts: 1,636
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricemazda
Does it have the geographical tube map overlayed with a streetmap?

I have always wondered exactly where the tube goes in relation to the surface.
Have you tried Google Earth with the LU template?
I'm not sure if the routes underneath the surface are completely correct, but it shows you all stations and streets on a satellite map.

Google Earth: http://earth.google.com/
The template: http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showthrea...108907/page/vc
sweek no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2006, 03:03 AM   #470
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3272

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweek
Have you tried Google Earth with the LU template?
I'm not sure if the routes underneath the surface are completely correct, but it shows you all stations and streets on a satellite map.

Google Earth: http://earth.google.com/
The template: http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showthrea...108907/page/vc
Nah, GoogleEarth's plotting of railway lines are miles off the mark... Its really, really, inaccurate.
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2006, 01:10 PM   #471
sweek
Registered User
 
sweek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London NW1
Posts: 1,636
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman
Nah, GoogleEarth's plotting of railway lines are miles off the mark... Its really, really, inaccurate.
I know the regular ones are, but this is an add-on made by some LU enthousiasts.
The stations seem to be right as far as I can tell from the satellite images. But you probably know more about this than I do.

Here's an example:

Last edited by sweek; February 26th, 2006 at 01:16 PM.
sweek no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2006, 01:35 PM   #472
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3272

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweek
I know the regular ones are, but this is an add-on made by some LU enthousiasts.
The stations seem to be right as far as I can tell from the satellite images. But you probably know more about this than I do.

Here's an example:
Hmm... Even on that section of map the line courses are plotted very crudely and inaccurately.

I've overlayed more accurate paths (thick lines)

[IMG]http://i1.************/okmr6g.png[/IMG]

Last edited by Tubeman; February 26th, 2006 at 01:44 PM.
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2006, 02:42 PM   #473
nick_taylor
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Portsmouth (term time); Bishop's Stortford (out of term time)
Posts: 1,818
Likes (Received): 9

This was something I made a few months ago. Doesn't show which lines or how many lines run along the route. Unfortunately one or two errors but.....


nick_taylor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2006, 05:41 PM   #474
samsonyuen
SSLL
 
samsonyuen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Canary Wharf > CityPlace
Posts: 8,350
Likes (Received): 314

^ ^Looking at this map, why is Bank linked to Monument, and not to Cannon Street? Just because of where the DLR is?
samsonyuen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2006, 07:04 PM   #475
nick_taylor
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Portsmouth (term time); Bishop's Stortford (out of term time)
Posts: 1,818
Likes (Received): 9

I think its because of the arrangements of the Northern Line platforms.
nick_taylor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2006, 07:14 PM   #476
Rational Plan
Registered User
 
Rational Plan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Slough
Posts: 3,672
Likes (Received): 678

A few more tweaks to the DLR network suggested. Currently work has started on the Woolwich extension, a larger Stratford terminus and work is due to start soon on the on the Stratford to Canning Town line and the capcity enhancement on the Bank to Lewisham Line. It has been decided that the Stratford Poplar line will also increased to take six carriage trains, East India and Blackwell stations will also be extended. This means that only section that takes four carriage trains will be the Becton line. This will cost £50 million, funds for this were to be used to relocate the tracks near Pudding Mill lane further South when Crossrail is built. The sentiment is that construction won't start on Crossrail till after the Olympics, with completion in 2018!

This is probably why the article in Modern Rail also said that a Western extension to Charing cross is becoming a serious prospect. The main reasons cited was capacity limits at Bank station and possible delay to Crossrail.

They did comment that the most expensive part of underground lines are the stations, and therefore the old Jubilee line platforms were ideal. This could mean that they might not be planning any stations between Bank and Charring Cross. The advantage is a fast journey time, but the opportunity to link Aldwych and the Western city could be missed. Two simple stations could link these areas, but even this option would cost an extra £100 - £200 million and probably more. But as history has shown on the underground network, cheap stations soon fill up and become constrained, with them having to be closed periodicaly to maintain safety.
Rational Plan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2006, 09:41 PM   #477
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3272

Quote:
Originally Posted by samsonyuen
^ ^Looking at this map, why is Bank linked to Monument, and not to Cannon Street? Just because of where the DLR is?
Yes Nick is spot on... The Northern Line platforms lie under King William Street such that at their northern end are the Central Line platforms and the southern end is Monument station, so the Northern Line platforms form the 'link' between the two.
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2006, 09:42 PM   #478
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3272

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick-taylor
This was something I made a few months ago. Doesn't show which lines or how many lines run along the route. Unfortunately one or two errors but.....


^
That is very accurate
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2006, 09:50 PM   #479
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3272

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rational Plan
A few more tweaks to the DLR network suggested. Currently work has started on the Woolwich extension, a larger Stratford terminus and work is due to start soon on the on the Stratford to Canning Town line and the capcity enhancement on the Bank to Lewisham Line. It has been decided that the Stratford Poplar line will also increased to take six carriage trains, East India and Blackwell stations will also be extended. This means that only section that takes four carriage trains will be the Becton line. This will cost £50 million, funds for this were to be used to relocate the tracks near Pudding Mill lane further South when Crossrail is built. The sentiment is that construction won't start on Crossrail till after the Olympics, with completion in 2018!

This is probably why the article in Modern Rail also said that a Western extension to Charing cross is becoming a serious prospect. The main reasons cited was capacity limits at Bank station and possible delay to Crossrail.

They did comment that the most expensive part of underground lines are the stations, and therefore the old Jubilee line platforms were ideal. This could mean that they might not be planning any stations between Bank and Charring Cross. The advantage is a fast journey time, but the opportunity to link Aldwych and the Western city could be missed. Two simple stations could link these areas, but even this option would cost an extra £100 - £200 million and probably more. But as history has shown on the underground network, cheap stations soon fill up and become constrained, with them having to be closed periodicaly to maintain safety.
Yes, its all go on the DLR...

Stratford remodelling (2 new platforms being built to the south of the existing single bay) finished 2007

Woolwich Arsenal extension to open 2009

Stratford International to Canning Town to open 2010 (North London Line closes Nov 2006)

Possible Barking Reach extension to open 2015

I expect that once the Stratford International extension opens DLR will start depicting itself as a network in its own right with different lines noted as opposed to the current web of lines over east London.

I get the impression from the TFL website that Stratford International to Woolwich Arsenal will be a self-contained route. So there'll be 4 lines:

Bank to Lewisham
Tower Gateway to Beckton
Lewisham to Stratford
Stratford International to Woolwich Arsenal
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2006, 10:34 PM   #480
samsonyuen
SSLL
 
samsonyuen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Canary Wharf > CityPlace
Posts: 8,350
Likes (Received): 314

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rational Plan

This is probably why the article in Modern Rail also said that a Western extension to Charing cross is becoming a serious prospect. The main reasons cited was capacity limits at Bank station and possible delay to Crossrail.

They did comment that the most expensive part of underground lines are the stations, and therefore the old Jubilee line platforms were ideal. This could mean that they might not be planning any stations between Bank and Charring Cross. The advantage is a fast journey time, but the opportunity to link Aldwych and the Western city could be missed. Two simple stations could link these areas, but even this option would cost an extra £100 - £200 million and probably more. But as history has shown on the underground network, cheap stations soon fill up and become constrained, with them having to be closed periodicaly to maintain safety.
That's great news. Wasn't Aldwych closed because the costs to repair the lifts were too much to substantiate? How would this change? Would service from Holborn ever continue as well (and perhaps further south)? Or could the DLR use platform 5 at Holborn from Bank (although I guess it's about the same as the Central line)?
samsonyuen no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
london, railways, tube

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium