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Old January 8th, 2012, 11:53 PM   #4801
midnemesis
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Hi, Tubeman! First of all, sorry for my bad English, it's not my native language.

I'm a big railroad fan, and I have some specific questions about the London Tube.

I got an amazing (IMHO) railroad simulator - "World Of Subways Vol.3 - London Underground" by TML-Studios. There is the Circle Line and the C69/C77 Stock to operate. The sim is quite realistic, but there is no complete instructions, how to operate the train like in real life.

The first thing I don't understand - what is the right order of operations when the driver takes a train into service? The game manual says, that when I'm in driver's cab, I have to turn the reverser key to "Auto", turn the CT/BC to "Service Applicaton", switch on the cab light, dashboard light, destination light, head lights and the cab ventilation, switch on the passenger light and saloon heatng, perform brake test (btw, is this necessary? I've read, that drivers skip this step in real life), set the destination board and then program the DVA. But I'm not sure it's right order, because there is another instructions in tutorial mission, so I wonder, what is right.

Another question is about the reverser key. Russian trains have 3 positions of it: "Forward", "Neutral" and "Reverse". C-Stock has 2 more: "Off" and "Auto". I understand what means "Off" position, but I wonder what means "Auto" and when the driver uses it.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 08:05 PM   #4802
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4 car units can certainly go anywhere despite railgaps, although they are more vulnerable to 'gapping'.

Perhaps 8 cars helps to distribute the sandite better?

4 motor cars needed to overcome slippery railheads?
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Old January 9th, 2012, 09:53 PM   #4803
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If the Mill Hill East to Edgeware line was already in use for steam trains, why couldn't it be kept as an LU line instead of being cut short?

That's been buging me for some time. I can understand why they didn't finish the Edgeware to Bushy Heath section, but why shorten a line that's already in use? I can't understand it.
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Old January 10th, 2012, 01:20 AM   #4804
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If the Mill Hill East to Edgeware line was already in use for steam trains, why couldn't it be kept as an LU line instead of being cut short?

That's been buging me for some time. I can understand why they didn't finish the Edgeware to Bushy Heath section, but why shorten a line that's already in use? I can't understand it.
Finchley Central to Edgware was only single track. LT were in the process of doubling & electrifying it but ran out of money with the double track as far as Mill Hill (The Hale) during wartime austerity years. The second track was never used and then lifted.

There would have been some merit to the full line staying open, but not a huge amount. After 1924 Edgware had its Tube station anyway, Mill Hill (The Hale) is right next to Mill Hill Broadway with fast electric trains across Central London, so only Mill Hill East really exclusively serves a population centre.

It was initially only re-opened on the cheap by LU to serve the barracks at Mill Hill East, so a single track with no signals was deemed sufficient, and this has stuck to this day.
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Old January 10th, 2012, 04:13 PM   #4805
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I don't suppose anyone knows the date that the eastern-most railway bridge was lifted at Finsbury Park? I assumed it was after the Northern Heights stopped being used for stock movements (1970?) but this cool old video of a rail crash shows that it was gone by 1959: http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=67353

How was the Finsbury Park- Highgate line used for stock movements if its link to FP was missing?
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Old January 10th, 2012, 05:59 PM   #4806
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Quote:
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Finchley Central to Edgware was only single track. LT were in the process of doubling & electrifying it but ran out of money with the double track as far as Mill Hill (The Hale) during wartime austerity years. The second track was never used and then lifted.

There would have been some merit to the full line staying open, but not a huge amount. After 1924 Edgware had its Tube station anyway, Mill Hill (The Hale) is right next to Mill Hill Broadway with fast electric trains across Central London, so only Mill Hill East really exclusively serves a population centre.

It was initially only re-opened on the cheap by LU to serve the barracks at Mill Hill East, so a single track with no signals was deemed sufficient, and this has stuck to this day.
Ran out of money? Really? Never heard that, i know the war started and interupted construction, but i thought there were funds avalible.

Just thinking out loud now, but wouldn't it be profitable to re-open the line from Edgware to Mill Hill East? I mean, if there is enough space and funds for it.
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Old January 11th, 2012, 12:44 AM   #4807
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I don't suppose anyone knows the date that the eastern-most railway bridge was lifted at Finsbury Park? I assumed it was after the Northern Heights stopped being used for stock movements (1970?) but this cool old video of a rail crash shows that it was gone by 1959: http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=67353

How was the Finsbury Park- Highgate line used for stock movements if its link to FP was missing?
The easternmost bridge span at Finsbury Park never had rails laid on it... it was supposed to host dedicated Northern heights lines and a new island platform to segregate LT from BR, but as it and the earthworks south of it were never completed, the stock movements to and from the GNCR continued to use the existing connections north of Finsbury Park, with access to Drayton Park depot being via a siding from Ashburton Grove goods yard (in the vee between the converging lines south of the station, where Emirates stadium is today).
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Old January 11th, 2012, 12:48 AM   #4808
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Ran out of money? Really? Never heard that, i know the war started and interupted construction, but i thought there were funds avalible.

Just thinking out loud now, but wouldn't it be profitable to re-open the line from Edgware to Mill Hill East? I mean, if there is enough space and funds for it.
I don't think so, really... it wouldn't open up any new areas as I already described. I guess an interchange at Mill Hill Broadway with the Edgware - Mill Hill - Finchley axis being connected might be slightly useful.

I suppose if Northern heights re-opened and East Finchley to Finchley Central was quadrupled to segregate Edgware - Northern heights from the Barnet branch, then there could be some merit to it.
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Old January 11th, 2012, 04:10 PM   #4809
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Quote:
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The easternmost bridge span at Finsbury Park never had rails laid on it... it was supposed to host dedicated Northern heights lines and a new island platform to segregate LT from BR, but as it and the earthworks south of it were never completed, the stock movements to and from the GNCR continued to use the existing connections north of Finsbury Park, with access to Drayton Park depot being via a siding from Ashburton Grove goods yard (in the vee between the converging lines south of the station, where Emirates stadium is today).

Thanks. what did the 'existing connections' look like north of Finsbury Park? It's hard to envisage where the LT line merged with the ECML if that bridge wasn't there.
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Old January 11th, 2012, 04:35 PM   #4810
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There was a (double track?) ramp on the western side and a single track bridge across the mainline coming down onto the eastern side. A fair amount of usage was to terminate at Finsbury Park (which used the ramp and the partially demolished platforms), but there were also latterly services to Kings Cross, (which is why the bridge was required).
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Old January 11th, 2012, 05:22 PM   #4811
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Quote:
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I don't think so, really... it wouldn't open up any new areas as I already described. I guess an interchange at Mill Hill Broadway with the Edgware - Mill Hill - Finchley axis being connected might be slightly useful.

I suppose if Northern heights re-opened and East Finchley to Finchley Central was quadrupled to segregate Edgware - Northern heights from the Barnet branch, then there could be some merit to it.
So you don't think this branch will opened again. I actually hope the Northern Heights plan gets the go-ahead in the future. I know about the Greenbelt legislation, but every city needs to expand, and i think NH would be a necessary part of it.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 12:38 AM   #4812
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Thanks. what did the 'existing connections' look like north of Finsbury Park? It's hard to envisage where the LT line merged with the ECML if that bridge wasn't there.
Here's an Ordnance survey map from 1954, the year passenger trains were withdrawn from NH:

[IMG]http://i44.************/2wok2t3.jpg[/IMG]

The 'up' flyover was originally single track, but was doubled by the late 19th century. This would have ultimately carried the LT NH across the entire ECML so it could pass through the never-used dedicated easternmost platforms at Finsbury Park.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 12:53 AM   #4813
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So you don't think this branch will opened again. I actually hope the Northern Heights plan gets the go-ahead in the future. I know about the Greenbelt legislation, but every city needs to expand, and i think NH would be a necessary part of it.
It was mooted as a northern terminus of the East London Line, but conflicting movements in the Canonbury area would have necessitated expensive grade separation, so in the end it has terminated at Highbury & Islington.

Stroud Green, Crouch End, and Muswell Hill stations are all crying out to be re-opened... untapped (by rail) commuter areas with very desirable housing, and the trackbed from Muswell Hill to Finsbury Park is all intact (obviously Highgate high level would re-open too for interchange).

Funnily enough nimbys are vocally protective of the trackbed in its current guise (Parkland Walk) and oppose their serene abandoned railway becoming (shock horror) a railway again... somewhat bizarre as I'm sure it would inflate yet further already steep property prices in the area.

I'd never say never, but Crossrail and HS2 will be bleeding transport budgets dry for decades so I won't hold my breath. My money would definitely be on a LOROL extension, presumably via the Canonbury Curve.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 04:25 PM   #4814
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Thanks Tubeman. I didn't realise there was a connection other than the flyover. Quite the gradient, I would have thought.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 04:38 PM   #4815
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I see. I never stop learning, thanks Joe.

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Stroud Green, Crouch End, and Muswell Hill stations are all crying out to be re-opened... untapped (by rail) commuter areas with very desirable housing, and the trackbed from Muswell Hill to Finsbury Park is all intact (obviously Highgate high level would re-open too for interchange).
Now that's something i'd like to see! The Underground finally reaching Highgate high level as it was intended.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 06:53 PM   #4816
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Tubeman, I don’t suppose you have the OS map for the rest of the station, i.e. due south of there?

Do you know when they will start laying the track in the St Pancras- Finsbury park Thameslink tunnel? I know it has to be ready by 2018 for passengers, but I understand it may be needed earlier for access to the new Hornsey depot.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 06:55 PM   #4817
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I see. I never stop learning, thanks Joe.



Now that's something i'd like to see! The Underground finally reaching Highgate high level as it was intended.
It would really cause a war. Iím from Stroud Green and the idea is *not* popular. A group was founded in Muswell Hill to campaign for the re-opening and the chair was receiving serious threats to life and limb.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 09:31 PM   #4818
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It would really cause a war. Iím from Stroud Green and the idea is *not* popular. A group was founded in Muswell Hill to campaign for the re-opening and the chair was receiving serious threats to life and limb.
I don't really see the problem. It would open up a "new" link to the city and would make journeys easier.
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Old January 13th, 2012, 03:35 PM   #4819
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Quote:
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It would really cause a war. I’m from Stroud Green and the idea is *not* popular. A group was founded in Muswell Hill to campaign for the re-opening and the chair was receiving serious threats to life and limb.
Perhaps these people should be told that we're going to remove all the roads in the area and convert them to parks as they are so fond of them. Cars banned, of course. Perhaps it'll hammer the point home.
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Old January 13th, 2012, 03:49 PM   #4820
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I don't really see the problem. It would open up a "new" link to the city and would make journeys easier.
As well as the loss of an amenity (which really is gorgeous, I'd recommend the walk) it is precisely the new transport link that upsets some people. the Muswell Hill elite fear that rail access would swamp them with chavs.
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