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Old July 29th, 2012, 05:33 PM   #5021
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Good thing NCT's around, because I didn't have a clue

All I'd ever noticed is overlapping routes one with a 2-digit number and the other prefixed, e.g. my local 63 and 363, 53 and 453... interestingly this sort of goes against what NCT just said about north / south as all are basically south London routes:
Yeah IIRC the 3xx and 4xx series were initially reserved for north and south of the river but from looking at things that rule fell by the wayside eventually. The 363 is a very young route, created only in 2003, by which time probably nobody remembered this 'rule'. Also route 463 was already in existence by then.
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Old August 3rd, 2012, 03:37 PM   #5022
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Hey does anyone know if we've had our first A stockless day?
Is it true that one unit will be preserved?
Is the fair well tour actually going to happen?
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Old August 3rd, 2012, 06:44 PM   #5023
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I have come across an oddity, u just walked the legnth of the Weymouth Tramway (odd already as it is part the south west mainline, built for proper mainline trains yet all on street). According to Wikipedia, the last train to use it was in 1999, however it appears both well maintained and the signals ate still live!! Seems unusual to maintain it when it isn't used. Would be a great light railway if it could share tracks with mainline services to Dorchester, then serving its suburban developments such as Poundbury.
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Old August 3rd, 2012, 07:37 PM   #5024
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Hey does anyone know if we've had our first A stockless day?
Is it true that one unit will be preserved?
Is the fair well tour actually going to happen?
It's a bit confusing, because I got on an A Stock a couple of days after the supposed first A Stock-less day, and then I heard that 4 trains were being used for the Olympics before scrapping... but I haven't seen one for about 2 weeks (and I work at Wembley Park and use the Met every day).

I suspect the 'official' last day is yet to come, but the A's are being used as a last resort which hasn't happened yet (basically, fleet need to offer for example 50 trains + 5 spares for service each day, but the spares haven't had to be used as the trains offered for service haven't failed). There would certainly be a decent amount of publicity when they do finally bow out, as 52 years service is pretty darned impressive. They're also the last 2-handed trains (separate brake and motor handles).
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Old August 3rd, 2012, 07:41 PM   #5025
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I have come across an oddity, u just walked the legnth of the Weymouth Tramway (odd already as it is part the south west mainline, built for proper mainline trains yet all on street). According to Wikipedia, the last train to use it was in 1999, however it appears both well maintained and the signals ate still live!! Seems unusual to maintain it when it isn't used. Would be a great light railway if it could share tracks with mainline services to Dorchester, then serving its suburban developments such as Poundbury.
I guess unless it can be officially 'closed' (which is no mean feat), NR are obliged to maintain it... as it's tramway (i.e. street running) it won't end up overgrown, so it will look in good nick even if it hasn't seen a train for 13 years

I remember seeing photos of the Charleroi metro (Belgium) elsewhere on ssc where the signals are still illuminated despite the system never having been completed, let alone used... quite surreal
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Old August 3rd, 2012, 07:42 PM   #5026
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London Railway Atlas Third edition now out!
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Old August 3rd, 2012, 07:49 PM   #5027
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
It's a bit confusing, because I got on an A Stock a couple of days after the supposed first A Stock-less day, and then I heard that 4 trains were being used for the Olympics before scrapping... but I haven't seen one for about 2 weeks (and I work at Wembley Park and use the Met every day).

I suspect the 'official' last day is yet to come, but the A's are being used as a last resort which hasn't happened yet (basically, fleet need to offer for example 50 trains + 5 spares for service each day, but the spares haven't had to be used as the trains offered for service haven't failed). There would certainly be a decent amount of publicity when they do finally bow out, as 52 years service is pretty darned impressive. They're also the last 2-handed trains (separate brake and motor handles).
Thanks tubeman
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Old August 3rd, 2012, 07:55 PM   #5028
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It's a bit confusing, because I got on an A Stock a couple of days after the supposed first A Stock-less day, and then I heard that 4 trains were being used for the Olympics before scrapping...
Surely they are keeping at least one for museum/heritage?

Anything else just isn't on.

PS, given the 3rd edition blurb says "All changes which have affected both the surface and underground networks have been included and the atlas is intended to reflect the network at the point of the Olympic opening ceremony.", I take it that the correct station closures, eg Pudding Mill Lane, are in play ;P
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Old August 3rd, 2012, 08:12 PM   #5029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman

I guess unless it can be officially 'closed' (which is no mean feat), NR are obliged to maintain it... as it's tramway (i.e. street running) it won't end up overgrown, so it will look in good nick even if it hasn't seen a train for 13 years

I remember seeing photos of the Charleroi metro (Belgium) elsewhere on ssc where the signals are still illuminated despite the system never having been completed, let alone used... quite surreal
I know the system, a whole unfinished line with subway connection ro the existing, finished stations, the lot.

Any thoughts on a Weyight rail? As the land between Dorchester and Weymouth are further developed (as is happening) the 8 mile system carrying onto Weymouth Quay and potentially to Poundbury via the Hospital at the north end could have a market and already is busy with busses.
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Old August 4th, 2012, 01:24 AM   #5030
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Surely they are keeping at least one for museum/heritage?

Anything else just isn't on.

PS, given the 3rd edition blurb says "All changes which have affected both the surface and underground networks have been included and the atlas is intended to reflect the network at the point of the Olympic opening ceremony.", I take it that the correct station closures, eg Pudding Mill Lane, are in play ;P
Pudding Mill Lane's current closure is noted in the index, but it's shown as 'open' as the closure is only temporary

The ELL phase 2 is in a weird limbo at publication: it's energised and has test trains running up & down, but it probably won't see a passenger train until the Winter timetable in December... I've shown it as 'open', but with a 09/12/12 opening date... hopefully the accompanying note explains all
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Old August 4th, 2012, 01:28 AM   #5031
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And sorry re: preserving an A Stock... I bloody hope so... I'd expect a power car at least will end up in the LT Museum Depot, but it would be nice to have a surface stock heritage train that can venture out. I think the A Stock are pretty limited to where they can go on the SSR due to car width.
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Old August 4th, 2012, 01:29 AM   #5032
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Originally Posted by ill tonkso View Post
I know the system, a whole unfinished line with subway connection ro the existing, finished stations, the lot.

Any thoughts on a Weyight rail? As the land between Dorchester and Weymouth are further developed (as is happening) the 8 mile system carrying onto Weymouth Quay and potentially to Poundbury via the Hospital at the north end could have a market and already is busy with busses.
So as a tram system? Don't see why not
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Old August 4th, 2012, 12:25 PM   #5033
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I assume that the timings of the S Stock so far has been restricted to A Stock timings - is there going to be a speed increase and timetable change to utilise the higher top speed, or has that already happened?
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Old August 4th, 2012, 08:19 PM   #5034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ill tonkso View Post
I have come across an oddity, u just walked the legnth of the Weymouth Tramway (odd already as it is part the south west mainline, built for proper mainline trains yet all on street). According to Wikipedia, the last train to use it was in 1999, however it appears both well maintained and the signals ate still live!! Seems unusual to maintain it when it isn't used.
This is probably not the case in this case, but sometimes atleast signals are kept alive because they are part of a larger signal system and it would be more expensive to do a proper disconnection of the signals than retaining them.
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Old August 5th, 2012, 11:45 AM   #5035
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I assume that the timings of the S Stock so far has been restricted to A Stock timings - is there going to be a speed increase and timetable change to utilise the higher top speed, or has that already happened?
Unfortunately the constraint is the track, not the stock, so I don't anticipate a timetable change with significantly reduced run times. The Met Line speed was reduced from 70mph to 60mph a few years back because of the state of the track. The only improvement is acceleration / braking, which will certainly help matters between Baker St and Aldgate with high tph and frequent stops.
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Old August 5th, 2012, 01:27 PM   #5036
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Yeah but I thought the A-stock was reduced from their design speed of 50mph to 40mph like a decade ago?
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Old August 5th, 2012, 04:19 PM   #5037
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Top speed/design speed of A stock was 70mph, though the stock was limited to 50mph a couple of years ago due to age.

S stock is limited to 62mph (100km/h), so track speed improvements are unlikely, unless TfL want to reinvest those track-access fees that Chiltern pay on the tracks that Chiltern use (which would be a big u-turn in policy, which has been to focus more on the rest of the Met line).
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Old August 6th, 2012, 04:28 PM   #5038
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Will you be doing a book-signing tour of the UK?
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Old August 6th, 2012, 05:21 PM   #5039
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So, to repeat my question (which has nothing to do with the track), I assume that the timings of the S Stock so far has been restricted to A Stock timings (ie 50mph) - is there going to be a speed increase and timetable change to utilise the higher top speed, or has that already happened?
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Old August 7th, 2012, 12:03 AM   #5040
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So, to repeat my question (which has nothing to do with the track), I assume that the timings of the S Stock so far has been restricted to A Stock timings (ie 50mph) - is there going to be a speed increase and timetable change to utilise the higher top speed, or has that already happened?
I was correct in what I stated, the line speed used to be 70mph on the faster sections matching the A Stock top speed, but this was reduced due to track quality.

These are the Line speeds currently:

Amersham - north of Rickmansworth: 60mph
Watford South Junction - Harrow North Junction: 60mph on fasts, 50mph on slows
Harrow South - Wembley Park: 50mph on both slow and fasts
Wembley Park - Finchley Road: 50mph
City sections: 30 or 35mph
Chesham Branch: 35mph
Watford Branch: 50mph

So there was only any 'curtailment' on fasts north of Harrow or trains north of Ricky in general, so maybe these will be marginally re-timed.

Bear in mind also that as far as I'm aware it's not a case that A Stock drivers were told to shut off at 50mph lest their trains shake to bits, it was more that some of the A's were so clapped out that they couldn't get above 50mph if you tried, so timetables had to be adjusted accordingly to the lowest common denominator.

A Stocks were routinely going above 60mph until the end, just I guess these trains would have excessive standing times at places like Harrow to get back on timetable, or would simply come up against red signals.

It's amazing with older trains how much variation there is from train to train... when you handed your train over, you'd always tell the relieving driver whether they had a 'goodun' or not. Even though all motors were technically working, some were just simply really sluggish.
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