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Old August 7th, 2012, 12:05 AM   #5041
Tubeman
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Will you be doing a book-signing tour of the UK?
If by 'UK' you mean the Ian Allan bookstore and London Transport Museum, then yes
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Old August 7th, 2012, 10:20 AM   #5042
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Thanks Tubeman
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"There is no problem so bad that you can't make it worse" - Chris Hadfield
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Old August 7th, 2012, 04:59 PM   #5043
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Bear in mind also that as far as I'm aware it's not a case that A Stock drivers were told to shut off at 50mph lest their trains shake to bits, it was more that some of the A's were so clapped out that they couldn't get above 50mph if you tried, so timetables had to be adjusted accordingly to the lowest common denominator.
I was of the understanding the restrictions came in due to cracks being found in the bogies?
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Old August 8th, 2012, 02:34 AM   #5044
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Ah actually that rings a bell now... well if that was the case, it was often ignored!
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Old August 8th, 2012, 02:29 PM   #5045
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Pudding Mill Lane's current closure is noted in the index
Looking at my copy of this excellent resource that arrived today (), the note for Pudding Mill Lane says "Planned opening 02/01/1996, but delayed. To be re-sited south in connection with 'Crossrail 1' works 2013".

Another pendatry niggle - the EOR is marked as opening in 2004, whereas the ELLX phase 2 is marked as opening in 1871 with a note. The Central line at Leyton is given a 1947 date, with ECR dates in red from 18xx-1970. Surely the ELLX phase 2 should have had the 2012 date, with the history in red (and the note), especially given tracks were lifted, rather than just disused/electrified?

I note the inclusion of the Battersea Northern Line branch and DLR to Dagenham Dock, but nothing of HS2 or Crystal Palace Tramlink. There's also SWML and Lea Valley plans in the SE RUS.

A 4th edition request - level crossing locations, and the "electrification and gauge maps of all of London (i.e. all of London on a single page showing different electrification and gauges over the years)" that Amazon suggests, but I can't find in there.
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Old August 9th, 2012, 02:13 AM   #5046
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Looking at my copy of this excellent resource that arrived today (), the note for Pudding Mill Lane says "Planned opening 02/01/1996, but delayed. To be re-sited south in connection with 'Crossrail 1' works 2013".

Another pendatry niggle - the EOR is marked as opening in 2004, whereas the ELLX phase 2 is marked as opening in 1871 with a note. The Central line at Leyton is given a 1947 date, with ECR dates in red from 18xx-1970. Surely the ELLX phase 2 should have had the 2012 date, with the history in red (and the note), especially given tracks were lifted, rather than just disused/electrified?

I note the inclusion of the Battersea Northern Line branch and DLR to Dagenham Dock, but nothing of HS2 or Crystal Palace Tramlink. There's also SWML and Lea Valley plans in the SE RUS.

A 4th edition request - level crossing locations, and the "electrification and gauge maps of all of London (i.e. all of London on a single page showing different electrification and gauges over the years)" that Amazon suggests, but I can't find in there.
Yes sorry I forgot that I'd entered the current closure of Pudding Mill Lane into my 'live' version of the atlas (basically what will become the first reprint of the Third edition), but that this wasn't in the final version I sent to Ian Allan in April... To be fair I didn't know about the closure until after the deadline.

Regarding the apparent inconsistencies with dating, I often tied myself in knots figuring out how to best depict this. The principle I settled on was that if a line (like the Broad Street viaduct) was opened by a mainline rail company, was closed, then re-opened as a part of the current NR network, then I'd enter the original opening date. The same principle applies to stations like Homerton, Dalston Junction, etc. That being said, that section is a funny one... (I think) owned by TfL but operated as a piece of NR infrastructure.

Conversely, EOR was opened by a mainline company, transferred to LT, closed, then re-opened by the EOR. As I chose to reflect with the rest of the ex-GER east end of the Central Line, the mainline period was shown in red, with the current LUL incarnation shown in black (same applied to much of the High Barnet branch). Following this logic, Epping to Ongar is shown with two extinct incarnations (GER and LUL) with the current EOR incarnation thus:

EOR 10.10.2004 / GER 24.04.1865 – 25.09.1949 (18.04.1966) LTE 25.09.1949 – 30.09.1994

In short, it became a but head****y but I hope I opted for the best way of depicting such complex histories.

One section I didn't have a hope of tackling was Ravenscourt Park to Turnham Green, I had to give the original LSWR opening date alongside the line and explain the very convoluted history in a lengthy text box.

The omission of HS2 was really because by the time it was announced, I'd drawn the pages in question and if you look at page 24 especially, hopefully you can appreciate I just looked at this page, which I'd spent hours and hours tweaking to get just right, and felt like crying at the prospect of trying to squeeze HS2 in. It would have destroyed a lot of painstaking work, and made a map page which I'd tried to hard to make as clear as possible even more complex. It was the same with Crossrail... I only finally incorporated it once they'd started building the thing... plenty of time for HS2 to be cancelled or altered, so I'll hold fire.

Dagenham Dock had been on there for ages, at one point it seemed a dead cert, as there's still a hope, and as it's far sparser area of the atlas, I didn't see the harm in keeping it. Ditto I squeezed in Battersea when it was all systems go... now it's hit the buffers, maybe temporarily... it may have to go. You might note that Airtrack was depicted in the Second edition, but now all that's left is the platforms they built at T5, because there has been an official announcement by BAA that it's dead.

Finally, the gauge / electrification maps blurb on Amazon is sloppiness by Ian Allan. They've basically just copied and pasted an email I sent to IA some months ago when I was extolling the virtues of the Third edition I was working on. At that stage, I was hoping to incorporate gauge and electrification maps, but in the end I ran out of time and pages (you ideally have to work in multiples of 16 pages, hence 128).

I am drawing them now, however, so they'll be in the 4th for sure.

Thanks for the feedback, anything else you spot please let me know
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Old August 9th, 2012, 03:24 AM   #5047
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It might be slightly outside your remit but since you mentioned Airtrack: has there ever been talk of adding a rail chord north of Heathrow to enable trains to run from the west onto the Heathrow Express tracks? This would provide a direct service from Reading and perhaps other points west and would seem a relatively inexpensive way of increasing accessibility to the airport, albeit not from London.
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Old August 9th, 2012, 12:24 PM   #5048
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It might be slightly outside your remit but since you mentioned Airtrack: has there ever been talk of adding a rail chord north of Heathrow to enable trains to run from the west onto the Heathrow Express tracks? This would provide a direct service from Reading and perhaps other points west and would seem a relatively inexpensive way of increasing accessibility to the airport, albeit not from London.
I've seen it mooted, but I guess there is a risk of congesting the Heathrow branch. Headways are currently approx 7 minutes with two overlapping 15 minute services.

The other consideration is electrification: anything coming east from Reading would currently be diesel, and I don't think diesels running through deep level tunnels is a very good idea! (I would assume prohibited)

Maybe with GWR main line electrification we could see an Oxford to Heathrow service? For passengers coming in from Wales and the West Country, Reading could be the interchange point to avoid going into Paddington and back out again, as pretty much everything seems to stop at Reading.
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Old August 9th, 2012, 01:39 PM   #5049
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Reading makes sense. At the moment it has 2 or 3 third rail electrified platforms, however these are essentially there own station (and in fact used to be) and do not serve the GWR but in fact the suburban lines into Waterloo. There will be no electric link to Heathrow for some time yet.
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Old August 9th, 2012, 02:37 PM   #5050
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Tubeman - thanks for clarifying on my minor niggles and I quite agree that HS2 would have been messy (you'd have needed a 2026 Old Oak area map - an additional page). You didn't explain Crystal Palace tramlink, but that is a minor addition anyway.

I did assume that the over-hyping wasn't your fault.
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Originally Posted by CairnsTony View Post
It might be slightly outside your remit but since you mentioned Airtrack: has there ever been talk of adding a rail chord north of Heathrow to enable trains to run from the west onto the Heathrow Express tracks? This would provide a direct service from Reading and perhaps other points west and would seem a relatively inexpensive way of increasing accessibility to the airport, albeit not from London.
Google/search SSC for WRAtH (Western Rail Access to Heathrow) - it's been talked about recently in the Crossrail thread. A larger project, being a couple of miles and to the west of Heathrow, rather than 50 chains and to the north.
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The other consideration is electrification: anything coming east from Reading would currently be diesel, and I don't think diesels running through deep level tunnels is a very good idea! (I would assume prohibited)
Yes, diesel wouldn't be permitted, given that the tunnels have a station - there's an amount of backwards-compatibleness and grandfathering in, but that wouldn't apply to new build. Of course, the length of time it takes to go from drawing board to completing construction of such a curve (though it's more likely to be WRAtH that's built, due to the headways problem you mention) would mean that it won't happen until after electrification anyway - especially given that they will start putting up wires soon.
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Old August 9th, 2012, 04:17 PM   #5051
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HLOS talks about eletrifying a lot of GWR, thus enabling electric services Heathrow-Reading

http://www.londonreconnections.com/2...-final-points/
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Old August 15th, 2012, 04:44 PM   #5052
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Tubeman - Do you know if it would be technically possible to re-double the Canonbury Curve by either lowering the track level, or expanding the tunnel bore? Does the Corsica Street ventilation shaft and/or the Eurostar HS1 line prevent this? The point of doing this would be to allow two freights to pass in the tunnel (with OHLE on both tracks). Obviously re-instatement of passenger services would be needed to justify the cost as doing it for a short goods curve would not cost in. A related question, is it possible to have BOTH OHLE and 3rd rail on the same stretch of line? Thanks.
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Old August 15th, 2012, 08:49 PM   #5053
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Tubeman - Do you know if it would be technically possible to re-double the Canonbury Curve by either lowering the track level, or expanding the tunnel bore? Does the Corsica Street ventilation shaft and/or the Eurostar HS1 line prevent this? The point of doing this would be to allow two freights to pass in the tunnel (with OHLE on both tracks). Obviously re-instatement of passenger services would be needed to justify the cost as doing it for a short goods curve would not cost in. A related question, is it possible to have BOTH OHLE and 3rd rail on the same stretch of line? Thanks.
Nothing's impossible, it just needs to have a cost-benefit

Corsica Road shaft is very close, but it appears that the former 'down' line alignment is the one in use, so the 'up' trackbed is still available (it's where all the track is being stored on the current Google maps satellite photo)

Bear in mind that hundreds of tunnels and bridges would have needed attention when the OHLE was installed along the WCML, ECML, LTSR, GER, etc... Indeed as I type the Connaught Tunnel under the Royal Docks is having the track bed lowered to accommodate Crossrail trains. So yes, the Canonbury curve could be redoubled by lowering the track for OHLE clearance.

Regarding dual OHLE / 3rd rail DC, much of the North London Line was, but recent developments have seen much of the 3rd rail removed as Stratford - Richmond trains can run all the way from Stratford to Acton Central AC under OHLE whereas the former Richmond to North Woolwich service had to use 3rd rail DC at both ends with AC in the middle.

I need to look into the current set-up, but as far as I am aware, the entire NLL from Acton Central to Stratford is OHLE only (with the parallel ELL Highbury to Dalston Western Junction being 3rd rail only). The only dual bit left might be part of the connection between the 'DC Lines' and NLL via Primrose Hill... The tunnels on the DC lines between South Hampstead and Camden Junctions are deep-level 'tubes' so cannot have OHLE, I'm just not sure where the 3rd rail stops and stock moves between NLL and the DC lines raise / lower their pantographs (the site of Primrose Hill station?).
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Old August 16th, 2012, 10:48 AM   #5054
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Canonbury Curve - Thanks

Many thanks for the reply, and congrats on the 3rd Edition.
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Old August 16th, 2012, 11:48 PM   #5055
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No problem, and thank you! Feel free to review me on Amazon
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Old August 18th, 2012, 05:38 AM   #5056
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The island platforms for the proposed Northern Heights extension from Drayton Park to Highgate were never part of the original Finsbury Park platforms. Hence I do not believe that the bridge serving the platforms were ever built. Stock transfers were made via the original GNR/LNER overpass to Highgate and beyond.
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Old August 18th, 2012, 12:09 PM   #5057
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The island platforms for the proposed Northern Heights extension from Drayton Park to Highgate were never part of the original Finsbury Park platforms. Hence I do not believe that the bridge serving the platforms were ever built. Stock transfers were made via the original GNR/LNER overpass to Highgate and beyond.
It was partially built, the structure to carry the lines / platforms was constructed but the platforms and lines themselves never were.

As part of the 1935 New Works plan two new platforms were to be built on the east side of Finsbury Park Station. A substantial steel structure seen here in 1969 was build for the new station facade and platforms but the platforms were never built; a stairway to nowhere can be seen in this picture. The rusting structure was finally demolished in 1972 and a new station facade built on the site in 1983/4

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/f...rk/index.shtml

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Old August 19th, 2012, 12:02 AM   #5058
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It was partially built, the structure to carry the lines / platforms was constructed but the platforms and lines themselves never were.

As part of the 1935 New Works plan two new platforms were to be built on the east side of Finsbury Park Station. A substantial steel structure seen here in 1969 was build for the new station facade and platforms but the platforms were never built; a stairway to nowhere can be seen in this picture. The rusting structure was finally demolished in 1972 and a new station facade built on the site in 1983/4

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/f...rk/index.shtml

Thanks Mr. T. Right on with the platform and facade structure. I was referencing the actual bridges across Seven Sisters Road and at the other end across Stroud Green Road. It's amazing how much interest and fascination the proposed Northern Heights extensions still generate.. I think I am the only one in the Boston USA however!
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Old August 21st, 2012, 12:32 AM   #5059
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Thanks Mr. T. Right on with the platform and facade structure. I was referencing the actual bridges across Seven Sisters Road and at the other end across Stroud Green Road. It's amazing how much interest and fascination the proposed Northern Heights extensions still generate.. I think I am the only one in the Boston USA however!
If you go to getmapping and switch to the highres 1940's layer, you can see them from above
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Old August 21st, 2012, 09:53 PM   #5060
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...has there ever been talk of adding a rail chord north of Heathrow to enable trains to run from the west onto the Heathrow Express tracks?
Not only has WRATH been talked about, its recently received government approval - the £500m scheme to provide access to Heathrow from the west is in the recently announced HLOS, to be built in Control Period 5 (2014-19), complementing electrification of the GWML.

Chris
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