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Old August 21st, 2012, 11:17 PM   #5061
arfamoe
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Originally Posted by mr_jrt View Post
If you go to getmapping and switch to the highres 1940's layer, you can see them from above
Thanks loads. What an amazing site - to see railway junctions etc as they were after the war. cheers
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Old August 25th, 2012, 01:15 AM   #5062
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Hi I have two questions about the train describes at Earls Court
firstly are they listed or protected as I'm surprised hey weren't removed
And secondly are they controlled by the signaller or by other means

Thanks
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Old August 26th, 2012, 06:27 PM   #5063
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Yes, they are protected hence stayed when the station was refurbished

They are controlled by the 'TDs' assigned to trains, Train Descriptions. The TDs are carried by trains each trip and allow relevant signals at junctions to be given without human intervention. It's a low-tech archaic system and 'Incorrect TDs' cause wrong signals to be given, when the signaller does need to intervene.
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Old August 27th, 2012, 09:10 AM   #5064
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I'm sure I read somewhere recently that the Met extension to Watford Jct had finally secured funding. Do you know if this is true and if so, has any news emerged as to when it may actually happen?
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Old August 27th, 2012, 10:32 AM   #5065
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I'm sure I read somewhere recently that the Met extension to Watford Jct had finally secured funding. Do you know if this is true and if so, has any news emerged as to when it may actually happen?
Yes it has, I understand it's currently subject to a public inquiry (starting in October), which is standard practice. Most of the money has been stumped up by government, with local authorities providing the remainder.

The forecast opening will be 2016 I think, although the website predicts 2 years construction, and the PI should be concluded by the end of October, so hopefully 2015 is feasible.
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Old August 27th, 2012, 11:27 AM   #5066
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Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Yes it has, I understand it's currently subject to a public inquiry (starting in October), which is standard practice. Most of the money has been stumped up by government, with local authorities providing the remainder.

The forecast opening will be 2016 I think, although the website predicts 2 years construction, and the PI should be concluded by the end of October, so hopefully 2015 is feasible.
That's excellent news. It may even open the prospect of a country service from Watford Jct to Amersham and maybe beyond.
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Old August 27th, 2012, 03:11 PM   #5067
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Yes, they are protected hence stayed when the station was refurbished

They are controlled by the 'TDs' assigned to trains, Train Descriptions. The TDs are carried by trains each trip and allow relevant signals at junctions to be given without human intervention. It's a low-tech archaic system and 'Incorrect TDs' cause wrong signals to be given, when the signaller does need to intervene.
Thank you tubeman
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Old August 27th, 2012, 03:13 PM   #5068
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That's excellent news. It may even open the prospect of a country service from Watford Jct to Amersham and maybe beyond.
I heard that there was a possibility to extend the met to alesbury and running a Watford junction to alesbury(sorry for spelling)
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Old August 27th, 2012, 05:33 PM   #5069
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That's excellent news. It may even open the prospect of a country service from Watford Jct to Amersham and maybe beyond.
It's kind of silly that Amersham-Aylesbury (Vale Parkway) isn't electrified - it somehow seems more logical to integrate that part into the Met line (thus Chiltern services would only run Marylebone-Neasden-South Ruislip - Princes Risborough and further...



More about Croxley link:
London Reconnections wrote croxley-maximum-milk-minimum-moo
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Old August 27th, 2012, 10:21 PM   #5070
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I heard that there was a possibility to extend the met to alesbury and running a Watford junction to alesbury(sorry for spelling)
Yes Chiltern are interested in operating an Aylesbury to Watford Junction service

My only slight concern would be congestion between Watford High Street and Watford Junction, with LOROL (maybe one day Bakerloo Line), Metropolitan Line, and Chiltern all potentially running along the same two-track route with a flat junction and only four platforms at Watford Junction.
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Old August 27th, 2012, 10:26 PM   #5071
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It's kind of silly that Amersham-Aylesbury (Vale Parkway) isn't electrified - it somehow seems more logical to integrate that part into the Met line (thus Chiltern services would only run Marylebone-Neasden-South Ruislip - Princes Risborough and further...



More about Croxley link:
London Reconnections wrote croxley-maximum-milk-minimum-moo
It all was the Metropolitan Railway once... when LT electrified the route, it was ultimately decided it would go no further than Amersham / Chesham and after 1961 Metropolitan Line trains would no longer run to Aylesbury. I guess if they'd have known then that the former Great Central main line beyond Aylesbury would be abandoned within a few years, things may have been different... although extending LT 4th rail electrification all the way to Aylesbury would have been a pretty big ask.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 07:58 AM   #5072
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I was reading about the funny little branch line to the village of Brill last night that was once also briefly part of the Metropolitan line. Quirky little bit of history there for anyone interested in a rail line that was never a viable prospect.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 06:46 PM   #5073
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I was reading about the funny little branch line to the village of Brill last night that was once also briefly part of the Metropolitan line. Quirky little bit of history there for anyone interested in a rail line that was never a viable prospect.
The amount of human endeavour that went into branch lines that were quite frankly always going to be economical failures boggles the mind... Literally 'Railway Mania'.

I pondered this just last weekend as I attended a wedding at Epsom Downs racecourse (nearest station Tattenham Corner). I get that both this branch and the Epsom Downs branch were primarily motivated by race traffic, but at all other times they're sparsely used yet have a pretty respectable train service.

The Tattenham Corner branch especially (more accurately the Chipstead Valley line) meanders through some of the hilliest terrain in the London travelcard zones with deep cuttings and tunnels, and my train on Saturday probably had no more than five people on it.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 07:12 PM   #5074
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Quote:
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The amount of human endeavour that went into branch lines that were quite frankly always going to be economical failures boggles the mind... Literally 'Railway Mania'.

I pondered this just last weekend as I attended a wedding at Epsom Downs racecourse (nearest station Tattenham Corner). I get that both this branch and the Epsom Downs branch were primarily motivated by race traffic, but at all other times they're sparsely used yet have a pretty respectable train service.

The Tattenham Corner branch especially (more accurately the Chipstead Valley line) meanders through some of the hilliest terrain in the London travelcard zones with deep cuttings and tunnels, and my train on Saturday probably had no more than five people on it.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 10:14 PM   #5075
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Never seen a rail signal flash orange before. What does that mean?
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Old August 28th, 2012, 10:33 PM   #5076
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Never seen a rail signal flash orange before. What does that mean?
I won't lie, I had to google it...

It means that you have been signalled for a diverging route ahead with a lower line speed than the line you're currently on.

For example, you're on the main line going at 100mph and there's a 40mph crossover ahead that you're signalled for. Basically telling you to check down your speed where a permanent speed restriction doesn't apply to all trains and where line speeds are too fast to respond to trackside signage alone.

Sorry... Wiki
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Old August 28th, 2012, 11:00 PM   #5077
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That makes sense, my train was about to take the connecting chord between the Portsmouth Direct Line and the West Coastway Line. It's a 25mph chord, the PDL and WCL (which join at speed further down the line, creating a railway triangle) are both 70mph at this point.
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Old August 29th, 2012, 11:48 AM   #5078
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The amount of human endeavour that went into branch lines that were quite frankly always going to be economical failures boggles the mind... Literally 'Railway Mania'.
...not a strictly speaking fair statement to make when you consider the context.

The tramway was viewed as a way for the Metropolitan Railway getting to Oxford and a lot of London-bound traffic.

...and when it was built as a tramway it was little more than a more efficient way of moving produce to and from the railway at Quainton.
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Old August 29th, 2012, 11:45 PM   #5079
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Quote:
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It means that you have been signalled for a diverging route ahead with a lower line speed than the line you're currently on.
It seems like some countries / railways go for this route signalling system and other countries / railways go for speed signalling.

(For example in Sweden it's always the speed that is signalled - if both routes at a switch have the same speed limit both routes have the same signal aspect).
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Old August 30th, 2012, 02:21 AM   #5080
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...not a strictly speaking fair statement to make when you consider the context.

The tramway was viewed as a way for the Metropolitan Railway getting to Oxford and a lot of London-bound traffic.

...and when it was built as a tramway it was little more than a more efficient way of moving produce to and from the railway at Quainton.
To be fair, yes, tramways were cheap to construct with minimal engineering... I was thinking more of heavily engineered yet duplicating branches like Tattenham Corner, Crystal Palace High Level, and Alexandra Palace in London.

Brill just typifies the absolute sleepiness of some rural branch lines... a route from nowhere to nowhere serving nowhere in between.
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