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Old August 8th, 2006, 03:02 PM   #721
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Oops sorry must have pressed reply rather than edit.
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Old August 8th, 2006, 03:06 PM   #722
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^ i much prefer the central line windows as its good to see who is on the carriage, especially late at night you can always quickly move before train has stopped to a different end to avoid that drunk group of teenagers etc...
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Old August 8th, 2006, 03:20 PM   #723
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On that note the new Victoria Line trains do bare some sort of resemblance to the 1992 stock on the Central Line. There is clearly enough room for higher windows on the new Victoria Line stock, and I wonder why they haven't followed through with the window design on the 1992 stock. Maybe it's related to the fact that the whole of the Victoria Line is underground (other than the depot).
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Old August 8th, 2006, 08:14 PM   #724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishcatdogbird
^ May have already been asked, but will the above have air-con?
Shamefully not. Its a fruitless excercise as the hot air would be exhausted into the tunnels / stations, making them even hotter even if the trains would be cooler. What someone really needs to invent is an endothermic way of generating electricity: drawing the energy from hot air!

The Victoria Line is spectacularly hot, being wholly deep underground, anyone who has travelled on it in one of London's increasingly common 35C+ Summers can vouch for that. The Bakerloo Line is also very hot, as it doesn't surface at the southern end, being essentially a dead end tunnel all the way from Queens Park to Elephant & Castle.

If its any consolation I can confirm the new universal 'S' Stock for the Metropolitan, Circle, District and Hammersmith & City Lines will be fully air conditioned. I've received some top secret renderings of it at work... I'll email them home and post them here. It looks pretty sharp; the front is similar to the Victoria Line 'Movia' train, 3 pairs of doors per car, and the sides are curved outwards like the C Stock (but unlike D and A stocks), which will increase capacity.
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Old August 8th, 2006, 08:20 PM   #725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetsetwilly
Didn't they introduce trains with "slit" windows before, and they were colossally unpopular? I seem to remember reading that women especially were less keen as they couldn't properly who was in a carriage before they got on.
Yes the photo I posted is the interior of the original 'Tube' carrige in London; the City & South London Railway (today part of the Northern Line Bank Branch). It was all underground (King William Street to Stockwell) and so windows were considered unnecessary, as each car had a Guard to call out the stations and open and close the gates.

They proved unpopular with a travelling public un-used to deep-level tube travel, and became nick-named 'padded cells', later 'Tube' trains were built with bigger windows even though they were still basically useless as the next 2 lines that opened were the Waterloo & City (1899) and Central London Railway (= Central Line) in 1900, both of which were completely subterranean when opened (the former still is).

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Old August 8th, 2006, 08:35 PM   #726
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boards
Tubeman I haven't read through all 36 pages so apologies in advance if these questions have already been posed. How many stations are fully underground? Is Bank the largest underground station in the world? Oh also, are there many stories of hauntings on the underground or even phantom trains? Any particularly commonly reported strange sights or sounds? Thanks.
Haha don't blame you for not browsing the whole thread... I've created a monster!

How many stations fully underground? Pass... roughly half I think, maybe a little less

Is Bank the largest? It certainly covers a large area (the Monument-Bank complex) and is served by 6 lines, but I'm sure some of the large interchange agglomerations in cities like Paris are bigger, there in some instances 3 stations are interlinked by subways etc, some really sprawl.

The Underground station with most 'proper' Underground platforms is Baker Street (10), although area-wise its much more compact than Bank-Monument. I also suspect from the huge hike to get to the Jubilee Line at Waterloo that that's also a very expansive station underground taking the 4 lines there into account.

Ghosts? The commonest is the ghost of a murdered actor haunting Covent Garden from the adjacent Theatre Royal, Drury lane. I believe a now-disused signal box at the East end of the Central Line was famously haunted by a former employee. I've seen nothing myself!

One night I was carrying out a night track walk inspection between Earl's Court and West Kensington and pooed my pants as I heard a train approaching along a single-track tunnel. It was only once it passed overhead that I remembered the West London Line above my head (used all night for freight). That was almost a ghost train!
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Old August 8th, 2006, 08:41 PM   #727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AG
On that note the new Victoria Line trains do bare some sort of resemblance to the 1992 stock on the Central Line. There is clearly enough room for higher windows on the new Victoria Line stock, and I wonder why they haven't followed through with the window design on the 1992 stock. Maybe it's related to the fact that the whole of the Victoria Line is underground (other than the depot).
After the 1992 Stock was introduced on the Central Line customer surveys showed the taller windows unpopular due to the 'hall of mirrors' effect due to the curved upper portion. Therefore the next two Stocks (1995 and 1996) had flat and therefore smaller windows... But handily for LUL more space for advertising therefore.

As you note, the window size on the Vic is pretty academic really, although I'd like to know who I'm getting on next to at Seven Sisters or Tottenham Hale!
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Old August 8th, 2006, 09:49 PM   #728
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I'm not sure if it's possible to answer this question, but I'm interested enough to ask anyway. I was recently in London, and noticed that there were still many stations and routes through stations where you have to take the stairs. I was wondering what deal had been struck with the government (or with whomever it is who deals with this kind of thing) regarding the necessity of providing disabled access? What kind of timescale does the underground have? How many stations are fully wheelchair accessible (I see that the DLR is good for this)? And what is the estimated cost of bringing att the stations of the network up to the standard where they can have one of the blue and white wheelchair circles on the map as opposed to just the whire one? How many billions?!

How do other undergrounds rate on disabled access? Is London notably better or worse than average?

Thanks in advance!
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Old August 9th, 2006, 01:31 AM   #729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentigern
I'm not sure if it's possible to answer this question, but I'm interested enough to ask anyway. I was recently in London, and noticed that there were still many stations and routes through stations where you have to take the stairs. I was wondering what deal had been struck with the government (or with whomever it is who deals with this kind of thing) regarding the necessity of providing disabled access? What kind of timescale does the underground have? How many stations are fully wheelchair accessible (I see that the DLR is good for this)? And what is the estimated cost of bringing att the stations of the network up to the standard where they can have one of the blue and white wheelchair circles on the map as opposed to just the whire one? How many billions?!

How do other undergrounds rate on disabled access? Is London notably better or worse than average?

Thanks in advance!
Yes the ittle blue wheelchairs have begun appearing on the Tube Map to show where there is MIP (mobility Impaired Person) access... you may find this interesting, its a full accessibility map of the network which takes the idea further.

I don't know what our exemption to the DDA specifically is (i.e. how long we've got to be compliant), needless to say it would cost an absolute bomb.

Personally I think we should be permanently exempt... The billions it would cost to remove every last step from the system could build entire new lines: the disabled already have access to dial-a-ride, Black cabs and subsidised cars. Its a nice to have, of course, and I respect the disabled's right to be independent... But I admit I'm never going to play for Arsenal or win 100m Gold, we all have our physical limitations.

For all the billions spent on wheelchair accessible buses and I'm yet to see a single wheelchair on one...
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Old August 9th, 2006, 11:35 PM   #730
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I think with regards to DDA, if it was built before 1995, it doesn't have to (immediately?) adhere to it.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 02:12 AM   #731
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Uffff...I've just finished reading the 37 pages. A wonderful thread tubeman Congratulations!

Now, some questions:

1) You may find this one stupid, but what happens if a driver arrives late or has an emergency? Who put "his" train in service? I mean, is there always a driver to place him, or you have to be at the depot x min before your train timetable, or sth. like this?

2) Does NR get paid by LU to use their stations/tracks? How does this work?

3) Is there any "stable siding" (despite the platforms) on underground sections?
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Old August 11th, 2006, 02:47 AM   #732
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Some more questions...

1) Last time I have been in London (March 2005), I noticed that in some stations there was station staff on the platforms announcing the next train...Is that normal? And at which stations? I remember Picadilly Circus had them...
( A comical situation...we were in a school trip and when we get down to the platform at Picadilly Circus, I remember the man saying on the speaker: "the next train ........(......)..and look this nice group that's now arriving ! applaud them...." a little bit embarassing....but everyone on the platform was smiling as this man was joking while announcing the next train)

2) Is still in use the staff on the platform with the or signs saying that the train was OK or not to proceed? In which stations?



Do you know if I can download the Tube tv series fromanywhere (i.e. emule)?

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Old August 12th, 2006, 05:11 PM   #733
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Thanks for the reply Tubeman. Great stuff, absolutely fascinating. Love the London Underground.
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Old August 12th, 2006, 05:21 PM   #734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman
What someone really needs to invent is an endothermic way of generating electricity: drawing the energy from hot air!
That's impossible given technology available in 2006.

However I want to ask which lines have air con? And which lines doesn't have air con?

And, Is the air in the tunnel usually uncomfortably stale in London Underground? I think that varies between stations... probably.
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Old August 12th, 2006, 08:05 PM   #735
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No it's not impossible, it's called a heat exchanger.
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Old August 12th, 2006, 08:35 PM   #736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chico_pastor
Uffff...I've just finished reading the 37 pages. A wonderful thread tubeman Congratulations!

Now, some questions:

1) You may find this one stupid, but what happens if a driver arrives late or has an emergency? Who put "his" train in service? I mean, is there always a driver to place him, or you have to be at the depot x min before your train timetable, or sth. like this?

2) Does NR get paid by LU to use their stations/tracks? How does this work?

3) Is there any "stable siding" (despite the platforms) on underground sections?
1) Every depot has a supply of 'Spare' drivers to cover in such an eventuality... They also cover duties uncovered due to Sickness, Annual leave, training etc. They aren't designated 'Spares' permanently, but roughly one shift in five is 'Spare' for every driver (i.e. once a week), so the work gets shared out fairly. That's one of my main roles, managing the Spares on any given day to keep the service running smoothly.

2) Yes I believe LUL pays rent to Network Rail for using Gunnersbury to Richmond (District Line) and Queens Park to Harrow & Wealdstone (Bakerloo Line), just as Silverlink metro has to. As soon as our trains hit 'their' turf they have to abide by Network Rail rules (which can be very different to ours), meaning that all District and Bakerloo Line drivers and Managers have to know both sets of rules... It can be confusing!

3) There are a few. On the deep-level lines ('Tubes') there are a fair few reversing sidings between the running lines, examples being Tooting Broadway, Archway, Down Street (between Green park and Hyde Park Corner), Liverpool Street (Central), Euston (Northern), Victoria (Vic Line) etc. In general they are accessed from one end (the end facing Central London) to allow 'short-tripping' late running trains, there are a few exceptions like Euston and Down Street which can be accessed from both ends. Trains are never 'stabled' on these reversing sidings unless in an emergency.

At a couple of locations trains are stabled in deep-level sidings, the most notable being beyond the platforms at Elephant & Castle (Bakerloo) where up to four trains are stored overnight in the overrun tunnels which are especially long due to the never-finished extension to Camberwell.

On the sub-surface the best example of an underground 'depot' is Triangle Sidings which lies in the triangle between High Street Kensington, Gloucester Road and Earl's Court, here 5 District and Circle Line trains are stabled overnight. Its not strictly subterranean however, as until the 1960's it was open air before being rafted over for development. A very similar thing is currently happening to White City depot on the Central Line in connection with the new shopping mall being built above.
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Old August 12th, 2006, 08:42 PM   #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chico_pastor
Some more questions...

1) Last time I have been in London (March 2005), I noticed that in some stations there was station staff on the platforms announcing the next train...Is that normal? And at which stations? I remember Picadilly Circus had them...
( A comical situation...we were in a school trip and when we get down to the platform at Picadilly Circus, I remember the man saying on the speaker: "the next train ........(......)..and look this nice group that's now arriving ! applaud them...." a little bit embarassing....but everyone on the platform was smiling as this man was joking while announcing the next train)

2) Is still in use the staff on the platform with the or signs saying that the train was OK or not to proceed? In which stations?



Do you know if I can download the Tube tv series fromanywhere (i.e. emule)?

[[]]
1) All stations are staffed all of the time, Central London stations are staffed by veritable armies of staff which I think is very refreshing compared to systems like NYC and Paris. There'll be a member of staff allocated to each platform most of the time in Central London, announcing trains and giving out information. LUL wouldn't dream of ever trying to cut costs and reduce these staff due to security and Trade union pressure. I think its great, certainly the Tube's best selling point, I believe. They're not averse to making comical announcements too, as you noticed

2) I'm not entirely sure what you mean... Do you mean the white 'SATS' bat which platform staff raise when the train is ready to depart? This is still in use... Its intended to speed up 'Dwell times' by hurrying drivers along (but they usually ignore them!).
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Old August 12th, 2006, 08:44 PM   #738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chico_pastor
Do you know if I can download the Tube tv series fromanywhere (i.e. emule)?

[[]]
I don't know... A guy at work recorded all of the episodes onto DVD for me, so I have series 1 & 2 including my starring performances
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Old August 12th, 2006, 10:43 PM   #739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman
1) All stations are staffed all of the time, Central London stations are staffed by veritable armies of staff which I think is very refreshing compared to systems like NYC and Paris. There'll be a member of staff allocated to each platform most of the time in Central London, announcing trains and giving out information. LUL wouldn't dream of ever trying to cut costs and reduce these staff due to security and Trade union pressure. I think its great, certainly the Tube's best selling point, I believe. They're not averse to making comical announcements too, as you noticed

2) I'm not entirely sure what you mean... Do you mean the white 'SATS' bat which platform staff raise when the train is ready to depart? This is still in use... Its intended to speed up 'Dwell times' by hurrying drivers along (but they usually ignore them!).
1) I think this little (big) porminors makes travelling on LU a wonderful experience =) Those little things make this system unique in the world, and my favourite

2) Yes, I mean the white "SATS" bat...

Thanks for your answers Tubeman =) You're big :P
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Old August 12th, 2006, 10:55 PM   #740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman
I don't know... A guy at work recorded all of the episodes onto DVD for me, so I have series 1 & 2 including my starring performances
Can't you make a copy of the DVD's and send me by post mail? I can pay them and the delivery
...I'm asking you this because I'm addicted on the tube and LU is one of my passions...
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