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Old August 22nd, 2006, 01:28 AM   #781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachmaninov
Actually, Tubeman, the exterior of Earl's Court station seems to look the same before and after the refurbishment.

One thing I don't really like about Earl's Court is the difficulty of crossing it from Earl's Court Road to Warwick Road. Sometimes when somebody went to a wrong direction, he'd be at a loss and don't know how to cross the station and get out on the other side except to walk back down to the platform.
The exterior stonework was cleaned up, and the shop units completely restored to a more authentic appearence. A bit difficult to see in those pics, I admit.

Regarding the second comment... Did you not discover the high-level walkway between the two booking halls? Its the cantilevered steelwork hovering above Platform 1. Its also a sinch at street level, take the first left off Earl's Court Road and go straight on, turn left again and bingo, the Warwick Road exit.
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Old August 22nd, 2006, 01:31 AM   #782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by london-b
I went from Heathrow to Kings Cross the other day, and I want to know why is the ride so bumpy?
The stocks of train built in the 1970's have notoriously bouncy suspension (C Stock on the Circle / Hammersmith & City lines, Piccadilly line 1973 stock, and Bakerloo line 1972 stock), plus the track's shit in places.
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Old August 22nd, 2006, 01:16 PM   #783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean Luc
Hmmm, if it were still a pedestrian tunnel today it would probably be a mugger's paradise, unless there was a heap of security measures in place...
No, they are pretty safe. There is a guard at each end from memory that operate the huge lifts. And there are security camera's. I have walked them many times, and always do when I am back in Greenwich.

I also heard of an Oxford race using the Greenwich tunnel called "Tie the River", in which two teams race from each side, first crossing the river by boat, pulling along a long cable, then running through the river with the cable to "tie" up the Thames.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman
Do any other cities have such long pedestrian tunnels as these?
They are very rare. London is the only city I know with two existing and working pedestrian tunnels under the river. The only other cities I know of this are also in Europe, but only have a single tunnel each.

A very unusual one is in Hamburg, which also allows cars to go down the lifts and drive through. Pedestrians walk on either side of the underground road.

I actually created two threads for each of these. The first is for the pedestrian only tunnels. And is missing the Stockholm one just mentioned (well, until I just added it ;O)
http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=260018

The 2nd is regarding the style of tunnel in Hamburg:
http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=260023
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Old August 22nd, 2006, 01:29 PM   #784
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Just got back from London again, and this time, I got an Oyster Card. I have to say that it works perfectly for tourists as well.

I was staying a week, and got the 7 day Travel Card on the Oyster. Much cheaper than a usual ticket 7 day pass, or the separate daily travel cards, and I could use it anytime even in peak. It was only for zones 1&2, but added 10quid as a "top up" which allowed for the extra route to and from Heathrow and a few other excursions out beyond zone 2.

Maybe because I got the weekly travel card, I didn't have to pay a deposit. At the end a pound or so was left on, but I just kept the card for the next time I go, and then I can top it up by credit card over the phone (or so I am led to believe - unfortunately, as yet, the Internet site to top up only works for UK residents).

So, if you are spending a week in London on holiday, I recommend the Oyster. If staying in the central area, get the zones 1&2 travel card and add an extra tenner (or more if needed) for any excursions.
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Old August 22nd, 2006, 01:48 PM   #785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman
The exterior stonework was cleaned up, and the shop units completely restored to a more authentic appearence. A bit difficult to see in those pics, I admit.

Regarding the second comment... Did you not discover the high-level walkway between the two booking halls? Its the cantilevered steelwork hovering above Platform 1. Its also a sinch at street level, take the first left off Earl's Court Road and go straight on, turn left again and bingo, the Warwick Road exit.
Yes I do notice that walkway, but I believe that a tourist who isn't familiar with the station would have difficulty finding it. As far as I am concerned, the signs aren't exactly clear. Would a plan of the station be helpful? Or is there already one which I haven't noticed?
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Old August 22nd, 2006, 02:33 PM   #786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachmaninov
Yes I do notice that walkway, but I believe that a tourist who isn't familiar with the station would have difficulty finding it. As far as I am concerned, the signs aren't exactly clear. Would a plan of the station be helpful? Or is there already one which I haven't noticed?
No, there isn't... I find many metro systems are a bit 'presumptuous' about what users should and shouldn't know, i.e. they assume everyone pretty much knows where they're going. If you take a step back and look at the underground through the eyes of someone completely unfamiliar with it, its bewildering. Earl's Court a good case in point... The District Line platforms are milling with people completely baffled by the multitude of destinations on offer, most metro lines are from A to B, the District Line is from A, B, C or D to E, F, G, H or I! Even discovering the Piccadilly Line platforms seems to be an achievement for many tourists, who presume they've found them when they arrive on the District Line platforms because they don't understand the signage.

For this reason a station plan at Earl's Court and many other complex stations would be a great idea... Diagrams are universal, English is not.
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Old August 22nd, 2006, 02:45 PM   #787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman
No, there isn't... I find many metro systems are a bit 'presumptuous' about what users should and shouldn't know, i.e. they assume everyone pretty much knows where they're going. If you take a step back and look at the underground through the eyes of someone completely unfamiliar with it, its bewildering. Earl's Court a good case in point... The District Line platforms are milling with people completely baffled by the multitude of destinations on offer, most metro lines are from A to B, the District Line is from A, B, C or D to E, F, G, H or I! Even discovering the Piccadilly Line platforms seems to be an achievement for many tourists, who presume they've found them when they arrive on the District Line platforms because they don't understand the signage.

For this reason a station plan at Earl's Court and many other complex stations would be a great idea... Diagrams are universal, English is not.
Exactly. The arrows pointing at a particular destination may mean nothing to tourists at all. Even if finally they realised what it is, they still have to refer to a tube map to check whether it passes their destination. I would expect signages like those on British Rail to work better than the current arrows - something like "RICHMOND - Calling at Vauxhall, Clapham Junction, etc.". In that case, tourists who don't know English should be able to identify their destination in the signs anyway.

Is there any way we can turn in these ideas to the TfL?
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Old August 22nd, 2006, 07:13 PM   #788
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^
LOL I can try... Maybe this will get me my promotion!
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Old August 22nd, 2006, 07:59 PM   #789
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lol tell us if you really get it!

And thanks for producing this thread. You've been most helpful!!
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Old August 22nd, 2006, 11:53 PM   #790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman
No, there isn't... I find many metro systems are a bit 'presumptuous' about what users should and shouldn't know, i.e. they assume everyone pretty much knows where they're going. If you take a step back and look at the underground through the eyes of someone completely unfamiliar with it, its bewildering. Earl's Court a good case in point... The District Line platforms are milling with people completely baffled by the multitude of destinations on offer, most metro lines are from A to B, the District Line is from A, B, C or D to E, F, G, H or I! Even discovering the Piccadilly Line platforms seems to be an achievement for many tourists, who presume they've found them when they arrive on the District Line platforms because they don't understand the signage.

For this reason a station plan at Earl's Court and many other complex stations would be a great idea... Diagrams are universal, English is not.
I always thought it was stupid that the Bank branch of the northern line was called the city branch. How would tourists know what the city banch is when there's no station called "city"

I was wondering what you think the chances are of the bakerloo line being extended to Camberwell are. I understand that the line goes half way there anyway after E&C. That area of south london is so badly served by rail / tube. I don't know why they don't re-open Walworth and Camberwell overground stations.
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Old August 23rd, 2006, 01:50 AM   #791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty
I always thought it was stupid that the Bank branch of the northern line was called the city branch. How would tourists know what the city banch is when there's no station called "city"

I was wondering what you think the chances are of the bakerloo line being extended to Camberwell are. I understand that the line goes half way there anyway after E&C. That area of south london is so badly served by rail / tube. I don't know why they don't re-open Walworth and Camberwell overground stations.
It would be misleading to say the overrun tunnels at E&C go halfway to Camberwell, they're 2 train's lengths long, so they perhaps stretch only 250m towards Camberwell. I'd say in the current climate there's no chance of any extension happening, but I agree its ridiculous that the Walworth and Camberwell mainline stations aren't re-opened for the Thameslink Sutton / Wimbledon service.

Inner London mainline stations closed en masse during WWI, as they were already suffering from tram competition and were easy targets for economies. Scores closed temporarily, never to re-open: Camberwell, Walworth Road, Borough Road, Spa road, Camden Road, Finchley Road, Haverstock Hill... Some like Loudoun Road (later South Hampstead), Cambridge Heath and London Fields were reprieved after WWI closure and are still with us today, but they illustrate why so many inner London mainline stations did close, as they offer at best 30 minute services which crawl into termini like Euston or Liverpool Street when the Tube or bus are far more frequent and quicker.

Re: The 'City' branch... yet another example of a presumptuousness that everyone should know what 'The City' is! Bank Station (or at least the Waterloo & City Line part, which was the first) was originally named simply 'City'. It was renamed to bring it in line with the rest of the station complex.
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Old August 23rd, 2006, 10:41 AM   #792
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By the way, what does the "loo" originally mean in Waterloo and Bakerloo?
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Old August 23rd, 2006, 12:38 PM   #793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme
By the way, what does the "loo" originally mean in Waterloo and Bakerloo?
'Waterloo' is named after the Battle of Waterloo, and therefore a town in Belgium.

'Bakerloo' is simply an (origninally colloquial) abbreviation of the line's original name: 'Baker Street and Waterloo Railway'
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Old August 23rd, 2006, 03:12 PM   #794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme
By the way, what does the "loo" originally mean in Waterloo and Bakerloo?
Loo is a British euphemism for toilet - the Waterloo district of London (and hence the station) was renamed in honour of the invention of the water cistern, and the Bakerloo line was so named because it was found that the route of the line went right underneath Sherlock Holmes's toilet on Baker Street...
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Old August 23rd, 2006, 08:15 PM   #795
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I thought Bakerloo simply means "passing through BAKER street and waterLOO"?
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Old August 23rd, 2006, 08:38 PM   #796
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieP
Loo is a British euphemism for toilet - the Waterloo district of London (and hence the station) was renamed in honour of the invention of the water cistern, and the Bakerloo line was so named because it was found that the route of the line went right underneath Sherlock Holmes's toilet on Baker Street...
Nice!
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Old August 24th, 2006, 12:07 AM   #797
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This thread is great Tubeman

Two questions:

1. I live and work in zone 2 but when I recently renewed my zone 2 only travelcard I found I had to buy zones 2 & 3. Is this just a way to make more money ?

2. I know Museum station is supposed to be able to be viewed from the Central Line (although I've never seen it). Are there any other ghost stations that can be seem when travelling on the tube ?
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Old August 24th, 2006, 03:27 AM   #798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieP
Loo is a British euphemism for toilet - the Waterloo district of London (and hence the station) was renamed in honour of the invention of the water cistern, and the Bakerloo line was so named because it was found that the route of the line went right underneath Sherlock Holmes's toilet on Baker Street...
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Old August 24th, 2006, 03:41 AM   #799
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Originally Posted by Smarty
This thread is great Tubeman

Two questions:

1. I live and work in zone 2 but when I recently renewed my zone 2 only travelcard I found I had to buy zones 2 & 3. Is this just a way to make more money ?

2. I know Museum station is supposed to be able to be viewed from the Central Line (although I've never seen it). Are there any other ghost stations that can be seem when travelling on the tube ?
1) Probably, yes

2) Loads. Pretty much anywhere on any deep-level 'Tube' line that the tunnel turns into anything other than plain castiron ringed tunnel you're probably looking at a 'ghost' station.

Examples:

Between Green park and Hyde Park Corner you rattle over points then pass a brick wall before suddenly descending. The brick wall is built along the edge of Down Street platform, the rapid descent you experience is the 'hump profile' of every tube station whereby the track descends from a platform (to assist acceleration) the ascends into the next platform (to assist deceleration).

Between Knightsbridge and South Kensington you pass another brick wall, this was Brompton Road station. The location is immediately before the Piccadilly Line enters into the torturous series of curves approaching South Kensington.

Other abandoned 'tube' stations that are still visible:

Kentish Town South
York Way
British Museum

These three are simply where the tunnel seems to widen... another instance is 'Bull & Bush' between Hampstead and Golders Green, here the platforms were built but the station never opened.

Other examples on the sub-surface lines are Mark lane (just West of Tower Hill), St Mary's (between Aldgate East and Whitechapel), and the original King's Cross platforms to the east of the current ones. All of these have intact platforms, although it takes a keen eye to spot them in the gloom.
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Old August 24th, 2006, 03:49 AM   #800
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I was in London last week and I was suprised how clean the tube system was compared to the NYC subway. Pretty much I was impressed with the British Rail system as a whole.
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