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Old November 29th, 2006, 02:06 AM   #1001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
Book?


London Railway Atlas (on Amazon)

On my publisher's website

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Old November 29th, 2006, 02:24 AM   #1002
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Congrats on the publicity for your book.

Any idea why the first branch of the ELL extension to get done is the one to Croydon - wouldn't it be more sensible to do the one to Clapham Jn first as that's more important surely from a strategic point of view.
Thanks

I'm also frontpage news on the TFL Tube website

Granted, ELLE Phase 2 is more strategically important... I think the only reason why Phase 1 to West Croydon / Crystal Palace will come first is because its easier: All it requires is the connection to be re-established between the current ELL and NR at New Cross Gate, with the only engineering of any note being a flyover to carry the northbound track from the Up Slow road across the Brighton mainlines to the east side where the ELL platforms are.

Phase 2 requires the relaying of the abandoned line from Surrey Quays to Queens Road Peckham. Again, not a massive undertaking as the trackbed is still intact, but a longer stretch of track nevertheless. It also involves the construction of a new station at Surrey Canal Road.
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Old November 29th, 2006, 12:28 PM   #1003
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Spotted a metro in the launderette last night and took a ganders - good luck with the book - when it goes platinum are you going to be hosting a party?
(Do books go platinum?)

Is the northern bit off the ell going to be on shared track or is the old four track going to be reinstated and national rail and ell segregated? As in on the north london line section will freight and other trains be using the same actual tracks as the 'overground' trains?
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Old November 29th, 2006, 01:24 PM   #1004
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Tubeman, I salute you. This is a wonderfully informative thread. Apologies if you have already been asked this, but have you considered going on mastermind?
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Old November 30th, 2006, 01:56 AM   #1005
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Great stuff Tubeman. Thanks for posting the article (I presume the TFL article is the same as the metro newspaper one).

Pity we have to wait until you retire before you do a South East version! Anyway, I still enjoy going over my copy of the book. Brilliant stuff mate!
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Old November 30th, 2006, 05:52 AM   #1006
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Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
Is the northern bit off the ell going to be on shared track or is the old four track going to be reinstated and national rail and ell segregated? As in on the north london line section will freight and other trains be using the same actual tracks as the 'overground' trains?
Just double track. Don't be misled into thinking that the ELLE will see Mainline and Underground services sharing the same track: When the extension opens the entire ELL will essentially become part of the National Rail network, but governed by TFL (like the Silverlink services). Its part of a wider strategy by TFL to better integrate local London Mainline services into the wider transport network.

The station site at Haggerston only every had a single island platform with the other pair of lines non-stopping, so it would not be possible to have 4 tracks and all trains serving Haggerston. The same applies to Hoxton, the station site is not the same as the original Shoreditch station so at the location of the future station the viaduct is the width of 4 tracks and nothing more, i.e. 4 tracks could not be reinstated without leaving no room for the platforms.
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Old November 30th, 2006, 05:54 AM   #1007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legslikeaspider View Post
Tubeman, I salute you. This is a wonderfully informative thread. Apologies if you have already been asked this, but have you considered going on mastermind?
Is Mastermind still going? I saw a godawful kiddies' mastermind a few months back full of pretentious brats, but I thought the 'proper' version was no more.

Something I might consider... They'd probably just be testing me on my book though!
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Old November 30th, 2006, 05:55 AM   #1008
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Originally Posted by Justme View Post
Great stuff Tubeman. Thanks for posting the article (I presume the TFL article is the same as the metro newspaper one).

Pity we have to wait until you retire before you do a South East version! Anyway, I still enjoy going over my copy of the book. Brilliant stuff mate!
Thanks fella
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Old December 1st, 2006, 04:36 AM   #1009
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Tubeman

awsome book where did you get it at?

and well how is the docklands light railway and how is the london city airport and if you have pics or stuffs and i don't know if i asked you this before

and do you drink so that we can hang out in a pub do you go to a pub?

it must be big being a manager at a train station?

oh and have you been to the london eye and how is it?

sorry man its just too many questions
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Old December 1st, 2006, 10:28 AM   #1010
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Originally Posted by Songoten2554 View Post
Tubeman

awsome book where did you get it at?
Try Amazon although I don't know if they send to the US

Quote:
Originally Posted by Songoten2554 View Post
and well how is the docklands light railway and how is the london city airport and if you have pics or stuffs and i don't know if i asked you this before
The DLR serves a purpose, but it has always felt very 'toytown' to me, with very sharp curves, steep gradients and tiddly trains. I've seen a load of good photos of the City Airport / King george V extension on someone's personal photo site, I'll see if I can find it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Songoten2554 View Post
and do you drink so that we can hang out in a pub do you go to a pub?
Being a bit forward, aren't we? ...I'd never say no to a drink, mind (unless on duty of course!)

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Originally Posted by Songoten2554 View Post
it must be big being a manager at a train station?
Its hard work, but I love it. Its my vocation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Songoten2554 View Post
oh and have you been to the london eye and how is it?

sorry man its just too many questions
The London Eye is excellent, if a little pricey. The view is incomparable at the moment.
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Old December 2nd, 2006, 12:34 PM   #1011
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Hello Mr Tube.

One of my Piccadilly line cars spoke to me today! The on-board station announcements are excellent if a little loud. Can you tell me when this service will be rolled out?

Also, at peak times...how many people can a train on the Piccadilly line hold?

Merci!
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Old December 2nd, 2006, 02:55 PM   #1012
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Hello!

What kind of difference is the Connect system going to make for an average passenger like me? Is it going to increase reliability, and have there already been effects on the District line? (and ELL/Circle, but I guess you don't know as much about that one)
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Old December 2nd, 2006, 08:19 PM   #1013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstar View Post
Hello Mr Tube.

One of my Piccadilly line cars spoke to me today! The on-board station announcements are excellent if a little loud. Can you tell me when this service will be rolled out?

Also, at peak times...how many people can a train on the Piccadilly line hold?

Merci!
Yes I've started to notice it in the past 2 weeks or so, along with correct 'next station' information rolling across the in-car dot matrices. These sort of modifications are usually done at the rate of a few trains per week, so expect the full 1973 Stock fleet to be upgraded within a few months.

I think a peak Piccadilly Line service would be somewhere in the region of 1,200 customers, if you sardine-pack it maybe 1,500.
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Old December 2nd, 2006, 08:20 PM   #1014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweek View Post
Hello!

What kind of difference is the Connect system going to make for an average passenger like me? Is it going to increase reliability, and have there already been effects on the District line? (and ELL/Circle, but I guess you don't know as much about that one)
I'm just about to go out on the piss, I'll answer you tomorrow
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 02:37 PM   #1015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweek View Post
Hello!

What kind of difference is the Connect system going to make for an average passenger like me? Is it going to increase reliability, and have there already been effects on the District line? (and ELL/Circle, but I guess you don't know as much about that one)
The main difference should be quicker / safer resolution of operational problems / incidents and faster service recovery from them.

As ludicrous as it may sound, when the District Line went 'up the wall' in the past, Service Control did not know where the trains were. They relied on the 'Box Sheets' of the Barking and Whitechapel signal cabins being faxed through which gave the running order of trains, but these would confuse the Earl's Court signallers as there would be additional trains mixed in with the running order due to reversing points at Tower Hill and Mansion House (plus trains coming down from High Street Kensington and Edgware Road). Therefore every train that arrived would result in a phonecall downstairs to us to confirm the train number, by which time the wrong signal might already have been lowered which takes 2 minutes to reset ('taking a release'). Therefore the more disrupted the service got, the slower and slower it would run through Earl's Court: the service sometimes going into complete meltdown (late running between 1 and 2 hours was not uncommon).

Connect allows positive identification of each train's location, which has a number of benefits:

- 'Reformation' of the service can be better planned (I have already described this, if you want me to explain what it is again please ask)

- As a Duty Manager I can immediately assess if a 'Short Meal Relief' (when a driver gets off their first train late and doesn't have enough time before their second train for 30 minute minimum meal relief) will have an opertional impact: i.e. before, if a driver got off late, I'd have to start planning for covering their second train with a 'Spare'... now I can check to see if their second train is also late (likely), therefore giving the driver long enough 'grub'. I can even tell them when to come downstairs, as I can predict what time their next train will actually arrive.

- Quicker running through Earl's Court, fewer wrong signals lowered at junctions

Connect also now gives us crystal-clear communication. As a Duty Manager I had no way of calling up a driver 'on the road' before, the Service Controllers alone had access to the crappy 'Legacy' Train Radio system (which was poor quality and riddled with dead spots). Now I can call any driver at any time on either their train radio or their personal issue radio to pass / receive information. Everyone can talk to everyone else either privately 1-to-1 or publicly (Group Call). This means that incidents are handled quicker and more safely as unambiguous information can be passed between staff members and everyone is always accessible.

For instance on Friday night we had a 'One under' at Bromley-By-Bow literally just as I walked through the door at 21:00. In many ways it was like a double 'One under' as in addition to the incident train (Eastbound) the driver of a Westbound train saw the person going under the wheels and was greatly traumatised. I was able to call her up and stay in contact with her throughout, talking her through what I wanted her to do. Everyone involved in the incident was able to talk to everyone else: the Service Manager, Service Controllers, Signallers, Station Staff, Duty Managers, the Train Operators. Before, especially in tunnel sections, this would have been virtually impossible.

We were suspended between 21:00 and 22:30, making some trains 1.5 hours late. As Service Control could tell where all the trains were, service recovery was much faster and ultimately the Last trains 2 hours later all ran practically on time (only around 5 minutes late), which in turn allowed current to be switched off on time and maintenance work was not delayed (with no consequent risk of a morning over-run of works).

So things still can and will go wrong on the District Line, 'Connect' won't prevent people jumping uder trains etc, but what it does facilitate is quicker and safer resolution of incidents and faster service recovery after them.
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 02:38 PM   #1016
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PS My head hurts and my fingers smell of kebab
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 06:12 PM   #1017
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Ahoy Tubeman!

Ahem a few questions..sorry!

Was Northen Heights part of the London Underground or National Rail?

Is there any new news on Holloway Road being upgraded? I'm getting sick of walking to Caledonian Road during every Arsenal Home match!

We all know that Covent Garden to Leicester Sqaure is the shortest tube journey but how much shorter is it compared to Charing Cross to Embankment?

Which stations on the Picidilly line can act as a terminus? For example, Coulda train run from Cockfosters to Holborn?

Why will Heathrow's T5's staff be BAA staff and not London Underground?

York Way! When is it opening up again!?


Even if you just answer 1 it would be great!
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 06:46 PM   #1018
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Making use of the floor

Hi Tubeman

Very interesting thread, thanks for answering all the questions.

I think LU should make more use of the floor in stations and trains, to influence/aid passengers' in addition to signs and announcements.

I know you work on the train side but I have some specific ideas to share:

Floor of trains aisles:
Arrows pointing to the centre along with "Move down inside" signs.

Floor of trains by the next to the seats nearest the double doors:
"Please stay next to your luggage"
- to reduce the number of bags that appear to be left worryingly unattended.

Escalator steps:
Arrows on the left and footprints on the right
- to remind tourists to only stand on the right.

Floor of interchange station concourses:
Coloured lines/arrows corresponding to the underground line colours, that lead to the platforms of that line.
- to provide a continuous reassurance and reduce the number of people stopping in mid flow to read signs.

Floor of busy steps and corridors (especially blind corners):
'Lanes' and direction arrows to show which side people should keep to.

This one is my favourite. I think it would make a real difference to the flow of people around stations.
There are many examples where you have to dodge people walking against/across the flow, or bump into people as you both round a corner. The signs on the wall just are not effective enough and often you need to set up the flow a lot earlier than the specific problem spot.
If the floor was marked with arrows on each side of the corridor/stairs in the most suitable direction, people would be inclined to follow the guidance. Psychologically you would feel uncomfortable walking the opposite way to the arrows.

Ok this will not work in some places, because the nature of the flow varies but I think it would help in lots of areas.

Similarly 'box junctions' in areas that need to be kept clear, and no entry floor signs on one way corridors would be useful.


My last idea is not for the tube but I'll say it anyway. I think there should be a fast lane at mainline stations. For example on the concourse at Waterloo there should be a 'runway' painted on the floor running the length of the concourse, across all the platform entrances. People standing waiting must be keep off of the runway. This means that people can dash along the along it to catch their train, instead of trying weave pass everyone.

What do you think?
Do you know what work LU does to address these kind of crowd control and behavior problems?

James
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Old December 5th, 2006, 09:11 AM   #1019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstar View Post
Ahoy Tubeman!

Ahem a few questions..sorry!

Was Northen Heights part of the London Underground or National Rail?
The Northern heights were built by two independent mainline companies but operated by the Great Northern Railway (ex-King's Cross) from the outset. They would have then been transferred to the LNER (London & North-eastern Railway) during 'grouping'. I'm not too sure exactly when ownership of East Finchley to High Barnet / Mill Hill East was tranferred to London Transport, Northern Line services commenced between 1940 and 41. Freight trains remained throughout the High Barnet Branch and beyond Mill Hill East to the original (now closed) Edgware station well into the 1960's, so I'm not actually sure if it was a case of mainline freights running on LT property or vice versa.

I assume that after the LT services commenced to High Barnet and Mill Hill East the remaining part of the 'Northern Heights' (Finsbury park to Alexandra Palace) became part of British railways in 1947, although certainly work had already begun to convert this section to LT as well, so I don't know if or when ownership was ever transferred. I'd like to find out actually... who owns the trackbed ('Parkland Walk'). The very last use of the East Finchley to Finsbury Park section was until 1970, when battery locos were being used to propel stock transfers between Highgate Wood Depot and the Northern City Line (as electrification was abandoned)... so tantalisingly there are images of Tube trains trundling through Crouch End and Stroud Green stations, although not under their own power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstar View Post
Is there any new news on Holloway Road being upgraded? I'm getting sick of walking to Caledonian Road during every Arsenal Home match!
Pass. Fortunately I can just walk home from matches, I do feel sorry for the thousands of people queuing for Highbury & Islington though! The only upgrade that would render Holloway Road open for matches would be a bank of escalators, and I can only assume fitting escalators into a traditional yerkes lifts-only station would be a nightmare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstar View Post
We all know that Covent Garden to Leicester Sqaure is the shortest tube journey but how much shorter is it compared to Charing Cross to Embankment?
Not much; a few metres here or there. Both pairs of stations can validly claim being the 'closest'. Covent garden and Leicester Square are the closest between platforms, Charing Cross and Embankment are the closest between station entrances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstar View Post
Which stations on the Picidilly line can act as a terminus? For example, Coulda train run from Cockfosters to Holborn?
To the best of my knowledge:

Oakwood
Arnos Grove
Wood Green
King's Cross
Green Park
Hyde Park Corner
Barons Court
Hammersmith
Acton Town
Northfields
Hatton Cross
Ealing Common
South Harrow
Rayners Lane
Ruislip

...So a train couldn't run from Cockfosters to Holborn, it would either have to reverse at King's Cross or Green Park.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstar View Post
Why will Heathrow's T5's staff be BAA staff and not London Underground?
I didn't know this, but if they are its probably because BAA funded the T5 extension

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstar View Post
York Way! When is it opening up again!?
Its not definite, but if it does it won't be until the King's Cross railway lands redevelopment gets underway.
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Old December 5th, 2006, 09:17 AM   #1020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acemcbuller View Post
Hi Tubeman

Very interesting thread, thanks for answering all the questions.

I think LU should make more use of the floor in stations and trains, to influence/aid passengers' in addition to signs and announcements.

I know you work on the train side but I have some specific ideas to share:

Floor of trains aisles:
Arrows pointing to the centre along with "Move down inside" signs.

Floor of trains by the next to the seats nearest the double doors:
"Please stay next to your luggage"
- to reduce the number of bags that appear to be left worryingly unattended.

Escalator steps:
Arrows on the left and footprints on the right
- to remind tourists to only stand on the right.

Floor of interchange station concourses:
Coloured lines/arrows corresponding to the underground line colours, that lead to the platforms of that line.
- to provide a continuous reassurance and reduce the number of people stopping in mid flow to read signs.

Floor of busy steps and corridors (especially blind corners):
'Lanes' and direction arrows to show which side people should keep to.

This one is my favourite. I think it would make a real difference to the flow of people around stations.
There are many examples where you have to dodge people walking against/across the flow, or bump into people as you both round a corner. The signs on the wall just are not effective enough and often you need to set up the flow a lot earlier than the specific problem spot.
If the floor was marked with arrows on each side of the corridor/stairs in the most suitable direction, people would be inclined to follow the guidance. Psychologically you would feel uncomfortable walking the opposite way to the arrows.

Ok this will not work in some places, because the nature of the flow varies but I think it would help in lots of areas.

Similarly 'box junctions' in areas that need to be kept clear, and no entry floor signs on one way corridors would be useful.


My last idea is not for the tube but I'll say it anyway. I think there should be a fast lane at mainline stations. For example on the concourse at Waterloo there should be a 'runway' painted on the floor running the length of the concourse, across all the platform entrances. People standing waiting must be keep off of the runway. This means that people can dash along the along it to catch their train, instead of trying weave pass everyone.

What do you think?
Do you know what work LU does to address these kind of crowd control and behavior problems?

James
Hi there James

Excellent ideas, I think they are both practical and potentially of great benefit. I had too thought of 'fast walking lanes' and the footprints / arrows painted on escalator steps to show where to stand / walk. Perhaps the only issue with the latter is that any markings might get quickly worn off?

There are yellow box junctions... there's one on Holborn Piccadilly South / West bound platform around where the Central Line passageway joins the platform, but everyone seems to ignore it though. I suppose that unless you're a car driver the markings are pretty meaningless.
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