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Old December 30th, 2006, 04:00 PM   #1101
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Cheers Tubeman

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Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
I think it would be of far more use if the original station on the Charing Cross lines below was re-opened as well, providing a bit more of a super-interchange between the Tube, Thameslink (or whatever its called these days) and the line to Charing Cross.
Sounds like a great idea. I don't suppose it'll ever see the light of day though unless they rethink Thameslink and re-route it via E&C.
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Old December 30th, 2006, 06:28 PM   #1102
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Think of the poor staff! We have run on Christmas day in the past and the services were pathetically under-used so scrapped. Its nice to just have at least one day a year where we are all off work!
But you don't want to say the police in the UK is not working on Christmas, do you? And how about taxi drivers or staff in power plants etc.?

London is one of the greatest cities in the world and one of my favourite ones, and London's tube network is phantastic, but operating times seem to need a serious revision!

One Sunday I had to catch an early flight from Heathrow and had to discover that the tube didn't run before 7 AM! I almost missed my flight! Not to mention the hassle of getting around in London if you want to go out at night on weekends!

How come that metros/subways in most smaller cities around the world start earlier and operate longer than the 'mother of metros' in London? An anachronism? Several metro systems in Germany and other countries operate around the clock at least on weekends.
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Old December 30th, 2006, 10:24 PM   #1103
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But you don't want to say the police in the UK is not working on Christmas, do you? And how about taxi drivers or staff in power plants etc.?

London is one of the greatest cities in the world and one of my favourite ones, and London's tube network is phantastic, but operating times seem to need a serious revision!

One Sunday I had to catch an early flight from Heathrow and had to discover that the tube didn't run before 7 AM! I almost missed my flight! Not to mention the hassle of getting around in London if you want to go out at night on weekends!

How come that metros/subways in most smaller cities around the world start earlier and operate longer than the 'mother of metros' in London? An anachronism? Several metro systems in Germany and other countries operate around the clock at least on weekends.
As I have already stated, we have tried a Christmas Day service before and it was completely uneconomical. Christmas Eve from the late afternoon onwards until Boxing Day afternoon is basically dead, hardly a soul out there (it feels like most of the passengers are Tube staff trying to get to and from work!). I'd sooner see a 24 hour service, but the fact of the matter is we need the nightly break in services to carry out maintenance work, probably less of a concern on newer networks with better infrastructure.

In the 4 or so hours with no Tubes there is a very comprehensive Nightbus network, so its not as if people are stranded fighting for taxis like in many other cities.

The only thing that I think we're in total agreement over is the late start-up Sundays, especially out to Heathrow. I personally believe first and last trains should be the same time all week (they already are the same Monday to Saturday).
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Old December 30th, 2006, 11:31 PM   #1104
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I like your T5 plan too. How many people get off at T4 on an average weekday? And Heathrow 123?
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Old December 30th, 2006, 11:33 PM   #1105
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How is it possible, that a 1100 posts thread could survive?
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Old December 31st, 2006, 01:11 PM   #1106
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How is it possible, that a 1100 posts thread could survive?
I must have special dispensation... look it as my version of the UK's EU rebate

Seriously, don't tell the local Mods... my thread must live forever!
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Old December 31st, 2006, 01:12 PM   #1107
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I like your T5 plan too. How many people get off at T4 on an average weekday? And Heathrow 123?
I honestly don't know... It would be more interesting to know how much inter-terminal traffic there is, i.e. if there's going to be a lot of T4 <> T5 traffic the currently under construction layout is lunacy.
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Old December 31st, 2006, 03:42 PM   #1108
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As I have already stated, we have tried a Christmas Day service before and it was completely uneconomical.
If LU tried it for only one Christmas, the passengers weren't used to it. Maybe many didn't know or they forgot or they didn't want to change their every-year habits that quickly.

Another problem might be that LU stations are extremely staff-intensive. While other metros run virtually without personnel except for drivers and maybe a handful of guys in a central control room, LU seems to employ 5+ people in every station. I noticed that when I was using my photography permit and was supposed to "check in with the station supervisor office" at every station.
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Old December 31st, 2006, 04:24 PM   #1109
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Quote:
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If LU tried it for only one Christmas, the passengers weren't used to it. Maybe many didn't know or they forgot or they didn't want to change their every-year habits that quickly.

Another problem might be that LU stations are extremely staff-intensive. While other metros run virtually without personnel except for drivers and maybe a handful of guys in a central control room, LU seems to employ 5+ people in every station. I noticed that when I was using my photography permit and was supposed to "check in with the station supervisor office" at every station.
If London not having an xmas tube/train/bus service bothers you that much, start a poll or even petition to TfL perhaps...
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Old January 1st, 2007, 06:13 AM   #1110
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Quote:
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I honestly don't know... It would be more interesting to know how much inter-terminal traffic there is, i.e. if there's going to be a lot of T4 <> T5 traffic the currently under construction layout is lunacy.
T5 is going to be BA only, T4 will be the Star Alliance and non-aligned airlines.
I suspect that when T6 gets contructed (Heathrow North), we'll see a T4 > T5 > T6 > T123 loop.

I think this would be ideal.

New things are the H123 to T6 to T5 single tunnel and the connection between T4 and T123. Next to that, I think we will need to turn around the loop, so resignalling and a flyover at Hatton Cross would be required for that. But H123, especially after Heathrow East, will be the busiest station so it would be most logical to go there first.
The drawing at the bottom right would be what the tube map would look like, and hey, we have a new line!
Trains could use both H123 and H5 for a slightly longer break / change of driver etc.

Man why am I posting this at 4 AM? I just got home and I was trying to post this earlier but the forums were down. :P
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Old January 1st, 2007, 05:09 PM   #1111
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Here's another one: why aren't North Acton, Turnham Green, Moor Park and Leytonstone shown as interchange stations, even though they can be if you're travelling from one branch to the other?
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Old January 1st, 2007, 07:29 PM   #1112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micro View Post
If LU tried it for only one Christmas, the passengers weren't used to it. Maybe many didn't know or they forgot or they didn't want to change their every-year habits that quickly.

Another problem might be that LU stations are extremely staff-intensive. While other metros run virtually without personnel except for drivers and maybe a handful of guys in a central control room, LU seems to employ 5+ people in every station. I noticed that when I was using my photography permit and was supposed to "check in with the station supervisor office" at every station.
...It was for several years, not a one-off

And yes the labour-intensiveness of LU stations causes a problem
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Old January 1st, 2007, 07:31 PM   #1113
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Here's another one: why aren't North Acton, Turnham Green, Moor Park and Leytonstone shown as interchange stations, even though they can be if you're travelling from one branch to the other?
Interchanges on the same line generally aren't shown unless the different services call at different platforms (e.g. Kennington).
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Old January 1st, 2007, 07:39 PM   #1114
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T5 is going to be BA only, T4 will be the Star Alliance and non-aligned airlines.
I suspect that when T6 gets contructed (Heathrow North), we'll see a T4 > T5 > T6 > T123 loop.

I think this would be ideal.

New things are the H123 to T6 to T5 single tunnel and the connection between T4 and T123. Next to that, I think we will need to turn around the loop, so resignalling and a flyover at Hatton Cross would be required for that. But H123, especially after Heathrow East, will be the busiest station so it would be most logical to go there first.
The drawing at the bottom right would be what the tube map would look like, and hey, we have a new line!
Trains could use both H123 and H5 for a slightly longer break / change of driver etc.

Man why am I posting this at 4 AM? I just got home and I was trying to post this earlier but the forums were down. :P
Good job, that's what I'd go for. It makes you wonder how the future Heathrow North will be accommodated: are we going to have the lunacy of THREE different Heathrow services?

One slight problem is that Heathrow North will be pretty much due north of T123, so it would be tricky to extend the loop whilst still serving both stations.

I don't know if T5 has been laid out a potential future through station (probably not!), but if yes I suppose the best solution might be extending the new T5 branch beyond the station, looping around to the north then back east to Hatton Cross via T6. This means there would be a pair of loops, one south to T4 and one north to T5 & T6.
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Old January 2nd, 2007, 02:34 PM   #1115
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Surely once T5 and Heathrow East are both online, T4 can be mothballed, leaving a much simpler linear service for both the Piccadilly line and HEX?
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Old January 2nd, 2007, 02:38 PM   #1116
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Here's another one: why aren't North Acton, Turnham Green, Moor Park and Leytonstone shown as interchange stations, even though they can be if you're travelling from one branch to the other?
For the same reason that Hillingdon, Ickenham, Ruislip, Ruislip Manor, Eastcote, Barons Court, Great Portland Street, Euston Square, Barbican, Aldgate, Mansion House, Temple, St. James's Park, Sloane Square, Gloucester Road, High Street Kensington, Bayswater, Stepney Green, Bromley-by-Bow, Plaistow, Upton Park, East Ham, Upney, Becontree, Dagenham Heathway, Dagenham East, Elm Park, Hornchurch and Upminster Bridge aren't
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Old January 2nd, 2007, 02:42 PM   #1117
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I don't know if T5 has been laid out a potential future through station (probably not)
I'm pretty sure it has actually, but I can't think of anything I can cite showing this...
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Old January 2nd, 2007, 03:30 PM   #1118
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Quote:
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For the same reason that Hillingdon, Ickenham, Ruislip, Ruislip Manor, Eastcote, Barons Court, Great Portland Street, Euston Square, Barbican, Aldgate, Mansion House, Temple, St. James's Park, Sloane Square, Gloucester Road, High Street Kensington, Bayswater, Stepney Green, Bromley-by-Bow, Plaistow, Upton Park, East Ham, Upney, Becontree, Dagenham Heathway, Dagenham East, Elm Park, Hornchurch and Upminster Bridge aren't
It's a different situation. You can interchange in those stations you're mentioning, but you have other stations where you can do it as well. If you're going from Hanger Lane to Ealing Broadway, North Acton is the only right place to interchange. From South Ealing to Kew Gardens, it's Turnham Green. If you're going from from Upney to Liverpool Street, sure you could change at Stepney Green, but you can also do it at Aldgate East or Barking.
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Old January 3rd, 2007, 01:40 AM   #1119
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When are Heathrow East and North to be built?
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Old January 3rd, 2007, 02:06 AM   #1120
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When are Heathrow East and North to be built?
They'll start on Heathrow East once T5 is finished and in use. Heathrow North is still in planning stages, and is facing a lot of local opposition.
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