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Old April 14th, 2007, 05:02 AM   #1301
Tubeman
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Arsenal vs The Tube. Which is better?
Arsenal Tube, of course!

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Old April 14th, 2007, 05:06 AM   #1302
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Arsenal Tube, of course!

Why was the development of the "Emirates Stadium" not required to upgrade the connections and the the tube stations?
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Old April 14th, 2007, 05:16 AM   #1303
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Why was the development of the "Emirates Stadium" not required to upgrade the connections and the the tube stations?
I suppose it was presumed that as the new stadium is easily accessible to Holloway Road and Highbury & Islington stations as well as Arsenal and Finsbury Park the extra 22,000 fans could be easily accommodated as they would disperse to 4 Tube stations instead of the 2 that served Highbury. Hasn't quite worked out like that though! I know that 60,000 was a limit imposed by Islington council because of transport concerns, we could happily sell out 100,000 most home games.

Its a travesty that the stadium is surrounded by railway lines on three sides and yet doesn't have a dedicated station... Ideally a loop off the ECML could have been built with a single long platform the length of an intercity train... a shuttle could then run between King's Cross and Emirates matchdays, perhaps with special 12-car trains with the seats ripped out... essentially cattle trucks! This would prevent the ridiculous queues for Highbury & Islington Tube.
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Old April 14th, 2007, 05:02 PM   #1304
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Yo Tubeman!

Apparently the PA announcements at your station (Earl's Court) are too loud, according to nearby residents. Read the letter titled "Noise plea" at the bottom left corner of the second page here: http://www.railwatch.org.uk/backtrac...9/rw109p08.pdf. What's your take on the situation?
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Old April 14th, 2007, 05:22 PM   #1305
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Yo Tubeman!

Apparently the PA announcements at your station (Earl's Court) are too loud, according to nearby residents. Read the letter titled "Noise plea" at the bottom left corner of the second page here: http://www.railwatch.org.uk/backtrac...9/rw109p08.pdf. What's your take on the situation?
Its bollocks. There's an injunction stopping Earl's Court from making any P.A. announcements (except emergencies) after 21:00 or before (I think) 07:00... so this letter is incorrect anyway. I ask all these moaning fannies this: who was there first, the railway or them? Unless they're knocking on 130 years old the answer is the railway. They want the benefits of being right next to a Tube station (i.e. connectivity, higher property value) and yet don't want the inevitable noise. We have the ridiculous situation whereby at the hub of the Underground's second busiest line, 'The Crewe of the Underground', we can't make service announcements after 21:00 or before 07:00... we can't tell customers that (for example) the Richmond service is suspended, we can't tell them it's 15 minutes 'til the Next Ealing train so take the Piccadilly Line... nothing.

NIMBYs are very powerful and we're often obliged to cave in... Believe it or not there's a 20mph speed restriction between Notting Hill Gate and Bayswater because, get this, the residents above complained about the vibration. You live above a railway, what did you expect for ****'s sake? Funnily its only the wealthy lobbyists who seem to get any concessions from us.

People have free choice where they buy their homes, they should put up with the consequences and shut up. If they don't like it, they can move... Its simple.
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Old April 14th, 2007, 07:43 PM   #1306
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Amen to all of that. I had no idea they had that much power in certain areas...
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Old April 14th, 2007, 08:25 PM   #1307
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I have a question Tubeman.

Will the new universal S Stock have optimised seating for different lines? It seems ridiculous having 30% less seating on the Met when journeys to Amersham can take ages. Or having the same amount of seating for cattle-truck-esq Circle Line Trains for the more Mainline-esq Met?

Edit: Another question How come platforms in Europe are lower than in Britain?
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Old April 14th, 2007, 09:03 PM   #1308
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I have a question Tubeman.

Will the new universal S Stock have optimised seating for different lines? It seems ridiculous having 30% less seating on the Met when journeys to Amersham can take ages. Or having the same amount of seating for cattle-truck-esq Circle Line Trains for the more Mainline-esq Met?

Edit: Another question How come platforms in Europe are lower than in Britain?
As far as I'm aware the S Stock will have no differentiation between the lines. They're even now (I hear) favouring running 7 car trainsets everywhere, meaning Bayswater and Notting Hill Gate platforms will need to be extended (at God knows how much cost) and the Metropolitan Line will run at below its maximum capacity (8 car trains). Its silliness really... My idea is to have 3 and 4 car units, the 3 car units can have minimum seating (like current C Stock) and the 4 car units maximum seating (like current A Stock). They'd run as follows:

Metropolitan Line 8 cars = 4 + 4 (i.e. whole train maximum seating)
District Line 7 cars = 4 + 3 with the 4 car unit always at one (i.e. West) end
Circle / H&C 6 cars = 3 + 3 (i.e. whole train minimum seating)

This way we still retain the many seat format of the Metropolitan Line to account for the much longer journies and the cattle truck format for the Circle and H&C lines to maximise capacity. The District Line would be a hybrid with the west end being high seating and the east end low seating, this would mean that during the peak customers should be encouraged to wait at the east end of platforms and off-peak at the west end. With the 4 car unit with many seats at the West end of the train it will benefit the customers joining trains at the western termini (Wimbledon, Richmond and Ealing), as they join the trains at the western end, therefore the furthest travelling customers have the best access to seating.

The overall train lengths are also the maximum possible on the respective routes without platform extensions.

Regarding lower platforms on the continent: I suppose if there is anything akin to the Disability Discrimination Act (DDA) in Europe, their days are numbered as such a big height difference precludes step-free access. For some reason the low platform with steps down from the passenger carriages system so common in Europe was never en vogue here... perhaps to spare the blushes of Victorian ladies in their big dresses and many petticoats!
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Old April 14th, 2007, 10:51 PM   #1309
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That's ridiculous, the Earls Court situation. I never noticed it being so loud.
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Old April 14th, 2007, 11:09 PM   #1310
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Thanks Tubeman, your idea sounds way better than any of the ideas that they came up with...

Also, I have another question (sorry if it's too much) why do the C Stock all have the same line maps in the carriages? For tourists, i'd imagine it would be quite confusing to get on a Circle Line which has maps saying it could be three different lines! And will it be like this for the S Stock?

Also, how are the new Victoria Line trains coming along?
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Old April 15th, 2007, 01:52 AM   #1311
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Thanks Tubeman, your idea sounds way better than any of the ideas that they came up with...

Also, I have another question (sorry if it's too much) why do the C Stock all have the same line maps in the carriages? For tourists, i'd imagine it would be quite confusing to get on a Circle Line which has maps saying it could be three different lines! And will it be like this for the S Stock?

Also, how are the new Victoria Line trains coming along?
No worries mate... It is 'Ask the Tubeman' after all!

The C Stock line maps are very peculiar indeed... the obvious answer is that the C Stocks could work any of the 3 lines shown on the map, but I could see how it would be bemusing to a tourist: "Which line am I actually on again?"

You raise a very interesting point about the S Stock too... Will they display maps of the entire SSR network inside? More to the point has anyone even thought about it yet?

Prototypes of the 'Movia' stock for the Vic line have been built and I believe have already begun test runs at night... But I could be wrong!
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Old April 15th, 2007, 10:28 PM   #1312
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Another question... Why does the Bakerloo Line seem to crawl through the city, yet other lines seem to go much faster?
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Old April 16th, 2007, 02:01 AM   #1313
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Another question... Why does the Bakerloo Line seem to crawl through the city, yet other lines seem to go much faster?
I'm not entirely sure what you mean... some sections are pretty fast (e.g. Regent's Park to Oxford Circus), but being a Yerkes Tube and therefore following the streets above there are some pretty tight curves which would lead to speed restrictions. Other Yerkes lines are similar in this respect, e.g. the torturous meanders in the Piccadilly Line between South Kensington and Knightsbridge and the very tight curve between Holborn and Covent Garden.
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Old April 16th, 2007, 02:08 AM   #1314
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I'm not entirely sure what you mean... some sections are pretty fast (e.g. Regent's Park to Oxford Circus), but being a Yerkes Tube and therefore following the streets above there are some pretty tight curves which would lead to speed restrictions. Other Yerkes lines are similar in this respect, e.g. the torturous meanders in the Piccadilly Line between South Kensington and Knightsbridge and the very tight curve between Holborn and Covent Garden.
Compared to the Central, Jubilee or Victoria lines it seems to go very slow, I should have been more clear. Maybe it's just me then
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Old April 16th, 2007, 04:16 AM   #1315
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Compared to the Central, Jubilee or Victoria lines it seems to go very slow, I should have been more clear. Maybe it's just me then
Because the Central Line follows a straight Roman road its basically straight between St Paul's and Shepherd's Bush stations, and the Victoria and Jubilee Lines are both additions during the second half of the 20th Century, when we no longer had to pay to build underneath people's property so tight radius curved were avoided.

That's the overriding issue: curves... The Bakerloo Line 1972 stock can really go some, as I can testify from when I used to drive them on the Northern Line... If a train's ever crawling along it's negotiating a sharp curve, or of course there's another train right in front!
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Old April 16th, 2007, 04:39 AM   #1316
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Thanks for that

Another question... Least you can thank me for bumping your thread up with these incessant questions!

How come the Victoria Line is so noisy and bumpy. In some sections it feels as if i'm on a ghost train, theres this really loud rushing sound! I don't even think it's when on curves either, because i've seen a geographically accurate tube map and between Highbury & Islington and King's Cross (where it's loud) theres no tight curves! Mind, i'm not complaining, all these boring silent trains are doing my head in!
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Old April 16th, 2007, 05:01 AM   #1317
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Thanks for that

Another question... Least you can thank me for bumping your thread up with these incessant questions!

How come the Victoria Line is so noisy and bumpy. In some sections it feels as if i'm on a ghost train, theres this really loud rushing sound! I don't even think it's when on curves either, because i've seen a geographically accurate tube map and between Highbury & Islington and King's Cross (where it's loud) theres no tight curves! Mind, i'm not complaining, all these boring silent trains are doing my head in!
That eerie humming / moaning noise that you get at high speed between stations on the Victoria Line is due to a railhead deformation called 'corrugation'... I don't know the exact mechanics of how it forms, but the Victoria Line is prone to it because it is all underground and therefore very little moisture penetrates the tunnels, so there is little lubrication between the wheels and railhead. This increases railhead wear & tear, which is also why the line is also prone to broken rails (normally just a hairline fracture).

The railhead gets worn into a waveform with peaks perhaps 5 or 6 cm apart, with each passing train exaggerating the peaks and troughs, it is the wheels running along this corrugated surface at high speed which gives rise to the eerie humming noise. Every now and then the railheads are ground flat to remove the corrugated profile, but it slowly re-forms with time. The height difference between the peaks and troughs are very small, probably less than 1mm, so you wouldn't feel it as such, just hear it.

The 1967 stock trains on the Victoria line have very bouncy suspension, they were built in the same era as the 1972 (Bakerloo Line) and the Circle / H&C / District Line C Stocks, which are also very bouncy to ride on, so the bounciness is much more train than track. The new stock should give a much smoother ride. You also have to bear in mind that the Victoria Line is very quick compared to most other 'Tube' lines, which will give rise to quite an exciting ride!
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Old April 16th, 2007, 07:21 PM   #1318
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That eerie humming / moaning noise that you get at high speed between stations on the Victoria Line is due to a railhead deformation called 'corrugation'... I don't know the exact mechanics of how it forms, but the Victoria Line is prone to it because it is all underground and therefore very little moisture penetrates the tunnels, so there is little lubrication between the wheels and railhead. This increases railhead wear & tear, which is also why the line is also prone to broken rails (normally just a hairline fracture).

The railhead gets worn into a waveform with peaks perhaps 5 or 6 cm apart, with each passing train exaggerating the peaks and troughs, it is the wheels running along this corrugated surface at high speed which gives rise to the eerie humming noise. Every now and then the railheads are ground flat to remove the corrugated profile, but it slowly re-forms with time. The height difference between the peaks and troughs are very small, probably less than 1mm, so you wouldn't feel it as such, just hear it.

The 1967 stock trains on the Victoria line have very bouncy suspension, they were built in the same era as the 1972 (Bakerloo Line) and the Circle / H&C / District Line C Stocks, which are also very bouncy to ride on, so the bounciness is much more train than track. The new stock should give a much smoother ride. You also have to bear in mind that the Victoria Line is very quick compared to most other 'Tube' lines, which will give rise to quite an exciting ride!
Thanks for that, it's very informative. The A Stock is even bouncier than the Victoria Line between Baker Street and Finchley Road...

Do any lines have Continuous welded rails?
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Old April 17th, 2007, 02:31 AM   #1319
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Do any lines have Continuous welded rails?
Yes it is slowly being introduced... LUL traditionally used wooden sleepers with 'Bullhead' rail and conventional joints between rail sections. This is gradually being replaced by mainline standard concrete sleepers, 'Flat-bottomed' rail and high speed expansion joints.

Bullhead rail and Flat-bottomed rail compared...



High-speed expansion joints... as the two sections of rail overlap there is no appreciable sound or movement as the train passes over them, traditionally sections of rail met each other end-on leading to the 'clackety clack' sound and additional motion passing the joints, the latter sort of rail joints are being phased out but are still common on the underground and on mainline branch lines.



All of the track replacement works of late have brought in flat-bottom rail, concrete sleepers and high speed expansion joints: there are now quite a few examples through the Central section of the District Line, as well as the entire Richmond branch and Wimbledon branch west of East Putney.
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Old April 17th, 2007, 04:01 AM   #1320
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Gawd, you're so helpful!!

It's definately there on the central sections of the Central Line, because when I go through it and onto Bethnal Green there's a noticeable difference in noise and vibration.
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