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Old May 4th, 2007, 02:48 PM   #1381
iampuking
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You might see a rise in suicides in that case!

I must say the old male version barking 'MIND THE GAP' was an intrinsic part of underground culture... It was obviously deemed too bossy!
I'm genuine, I really think Margaret Thatcher would work! It would just scream 'Britain' if tourists came here! And it would be good having a female voice... Maybe it should be done at Bank cause she was a money person.

I wouldn't mind Winston Churchill either, they could use old recordings!

I've heard about the Central line ATO, and apparently they drive it manually once overground as ATO can overshoot the platforms? Surely this defeats the whole purpose as the higher frequencies when it's underground will have to be reduced once overground? Or is this counter-acted by the fact that the branches split very near the underground sections, or do they reverse trains early? I'm a bit confused really...
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Old May 4th, 2007, 04:27 PM   #1382
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A question for you Tubeman (or anybody else who knows the answers), which underground lines use the larger subsurface gauge and is it true it slightly exceeds normal UK heavy rail gauge?
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Old May 4th, 2007, 04:36 PM   #1383
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A question for you Tubeman (or anybody else who knows the answers), which underground lines use the larger subsurface gauge and is it true it slightly exceeds normal UK heavy rail gauge?
I'm pretty sure it's the Metropolitan line, Tubeman will probably know though.

It's funny that the tube has both the smallest loading guage and largest in Britain!
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Old May 4th, 2007, 09:41 PM   #1384
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Tubeman, my Victoria line train came to a stop in the tunnel today and woosh - a gust of cold air blew through the ventilation window. A welcomed suprised - I presume this is some sort of ventilation shaft reaching the tunnel?

So, my question is: Which tube lines are the best/worst for ventilation and where the bloody hell are the shafts that bring air down to the line? Also what do you know of plans to cool down the tube (exc. air con on SSL)?
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Old May 5th, 2007, 10:49 AM   #1385
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A question for you Tubeman (or anybody else who knows the answers), which underground lines use the larger subsurface gauge and is it true it slightly exceeds normal UK heavy rail gauge?
Metropolitan, District, Circle, Hammermsith & City, East London are all Subsurface, which do indeed slightly exceed the UK standard loading gauge. The Metropolitan Line was originally built to GWR 7-foot Broad gauge, so the tunnels between Paddington and Farringdon are wide enough to accommodate two 7-foot gauge tracks (as opposed to standard 4'8.5"). The cars are slightly wider than standard.
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Old May 5th, 2007, 10:56 AM   #1386
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Tubeman, my Victoria line train came to a stop in the tunnel today and woosh - a gust of cold air blew through the ventilation window. A welcomed suprised - I presume this is some sort of ventilation shaft reaching the tunnel?

So, my question is: Which tube lines are the best/worst for ventilation and where the bloody hell are the shafts that bring air down to the line? Also what do you know of plans to cool down the tube (exc. air con on SSL)?
The 'old' Tubes were designed to be aerated by the trains, which is why they have unaerodynamic flat fronts to act like pistons and push air around. This is all well and good as the old lines all open to the outside world at both ends, except my new line, the Bakerloo, where its a dead end tunnel from Queens Park to Elephant & Castle. This means the Bakerloo has the worst ventilation: its excessively hot and dirty down there. The newer Victoria Line, as it was always intended to be 100% Tube tunnel, was built with some ventilation shafts, but even so it is also very hot in the Summer.

As a Tube passenger, especially if you're stationary in a tunnel, you'll sometimes notice a sudden whoosh and increase in pressure (you'll feel it in your ears and the train doors may rattle)... This is a train passing in the opposite direction, as there are cross-passages between the running tunnels.
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Old May 5th, 2007, 11:37 AM   #1387
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Metropolitan, District, Circle, Hammermsith & City, East London are all Subsurface, which do indeed slightly exceed the UK standard loading gauge. The Metropolitan Line was originally built to GWR 7-foot Broad gauge, so the tunnels between Paddington and Farringdon are wide enough to accommodate two 7-foot gauge tracks (as opposed to standard 4'8.5"). The cars are slightly wider than standard.
So how does the subsurface gauge compare to other European gauges?
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Old May 5th, 2007, 05:50 PM   #1388
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So how does the subsurface gauge compare to other European gauges?
I little smaller I'd expect... It's only marginally larger than British mainline standard, which is a fair bit smaller than continental standard.
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Old May 5th, 2007, 06:29 PM   #1389
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If the Sub surface lines have a different gauge to NR services, how do lines share tracks with NR services (e.g. The Wimbledon terminus to wandsworth town)? Also, how does the Eurostar run between the UK and continent? Can the wheels on trains change width?
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Old May 5th, 2007, 06:31 PM   #1390
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If the Sub surface lines have a different gauge to NR services, how do lines share tracks with NR services (e.g. The Wimbledon terminus to wandsworth town)? Also, how does the Eurostar run between the UK and continent? Can the wheels on trains change width?
Loading gauge - i.e clearances dictating the width and height of trains rather then where the wheels are.
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Old May 5th, 2007, 07:19 PM   #1391
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The 'old' Tubes were designed to be aerated by the trains, which is why they have unaerodynamic flat fronts to act like pistons and push air around. This is all well and good as the old lines all open to the outside world at both ends, except my new line, the Bakerloo, where its a dead end tunnel from Queens Park to Elephant & Castle. This means the Bakerloo has the worst ventilation: its excessively hot and dirty down there. The newer Victoria Line, as it was always intended to be 100% Tube tunnel, was built with some ventilation shafts, but even so it is also very hot in the Summer.

As a Tube passenger, especially if you're stationary in a tunnel, you'll sometimes notice a sudden whoosh and increase in pressure (you'll feel it in your ears and the train doors may rattle)... This is a train passing in the opposite direction, as there are cross-passages between the running tunnels.
The feeling in ones ears... can it be because of ventilation shafts? Because between St John's Wood and Baker Street on the Jubilee line I always feel a change in air pressure in pretty much the same place.

I have a question regarding noise and tunnel size, do larger tunnels mean noisier journeys? Because the Vic and Jubilee have larger tunnels then the other lines and they can get quite noisy. Is it because with smaller tunnels there is less space for noise to bounce off and return to one's ears or am I just getting the whole thing wrong?

Last edited by iampuking; May 5th, 2007 at 09:53 PM.
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Old May 6th, 2007, 12:42 PM   #1392
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The feeling in ones ears... can it be because of ventilation shafts? Because between St John's Wood and Baker Street on the Jubilee line I always feel a change in air pressure in pretty much the same place.

I have a question regarding noise and tunnel size, do larger tunnels mean noisier journeys? Because the Vic and Jubilee have larger tunnels then the other lines and they can get quite noisy. Is it because with smaller tunnels there is less space for noise to bounce off and return to one's ears or am I just getting the whole thing wrong?
I don't think any of the older tunnels have any ventilation shafts, just the cross-passages I mentioned before.

I'm not too sure about how sound behaves in Tube tunnels... I think the noisiness of the Vic is more to do with the speed of trains plus the corrugation of the railhead surface (which I touched upon earlier). The old section of the Jubilee Line is very noisy, but as far as I'm aware the tunnels are standard diameter... only the JLE is wider, and I find that pretty quiet in comparison due to having good track.
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Old May 6th, 2007, 12:44 PM   #1393
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If the Sub surface lines have a different gauge to NR services, how do lines share tracks with NR services (e.g. The Wimbledon terminus to wandsworth town)? Also, how does the Eurostar run between the UK and continent? Can the wheels on trains change width?

Yes sorry as Salif rightly says we were discussing loading gauge as opposed to rail gauge.
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Old May 8th, 2007, 01:27 PM   #1394
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Tubeman there is a station I remember seeing pictures of years ago. I cannot for the life of me remember which one it is. I'm pretty sure it's an outer zone Tube station (it's above ground - no tunnels) but there's a possibility that I'm mistaken and it's actually a suburban rail station or DLR. It was built in the late '90s and has really cool architecture. The platform is wrapped around by a cylindrical metalic tube punctuated by round porthole windows. Do you know the one?

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Old May 8th, 2007, 05:58 PM   #1395
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Tubeman there is a station I remember seeing pictures of years ago. I cannot for the life of me remember which one it is. I'm pretty sure it's an outer zone Tube station (it's above ground - no tunnels) but there's a possibility that I'm mistaken and it's actually a suburban rail station or DLR. It was built in the late '90s and has really cool architecture. The platform is wrapped around by a cylindrical metalic tube punctuated by round porthole windows. Do you know the one?
Possibly Hillingdon? Resited and rebuilt in 1994 (I think) due to works on the A40.







...Doesn't look too much like your description, but I can't think of where else it could be.
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Old May 8th, 2007, 11:26 PM   #1396
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^ No that's not it. Thanks anyway.
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Old May 8th, 2007, 11:43 PM   #1397
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I have been hunting for this on Google without success but I finally found it - Tottenham Hale:

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Old May 8th, 2007, 11:54 PM   #1398
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Old May 9th, 2007, 01:17 PM   #1399
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Then is it a railway station?
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Old May 9th, 2007, 03:19 PM   #1400
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Then is it a railway station?
Yes, it's Tottenham Hale overground station, the tube station is underground.

Also Tubeman, I asked a question earlier and I think you must of missed it...

"I've heard about the Central line ATO, and apparently they drive it manually once overground as ATO can overshoot the platforms? Surely this defeats the whole purpose as the higher frequencies when it's underground will have to be reduced once overground? Or is this counter-acted by the fact that the branches split very near the underground sections, or do they reverse trains early?"

Do you know?
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