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Old May 26th, 2007, 05:04 AM   #1501
Tubeman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Tubeman, questions!

-What is the T5 Piccadilly line station like?
-Why are the lights on in the tunnels by the crossovers?
Re: T5... Haven't seen it... All I know is its 4 platforms (2 Tube, 2 HEX)

Re: Lights at crossovers... On ATO lines its so that drivers can see the position of points when driving manually (i.e. 'codes lost'), thus preventing a derailment. On manual lines its so that the station supervisor can see what they're doing if they need to manually secure the points due to a signal failure, and then so that the drivers can check the points have been correctly secured before passing over them.
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Old May 26th, 2007, 09:33 PM   #1502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Re: T5... Haven't seen it... All I know is its 4 platforms (2 Tube, 2 HEX)

Re: Lights at crossovers... On ATO lines its so that drivers can see the position of points when driving manually (i.e. 'codes lost'), thus preventing a derailment. On manual lines its so that the station supervisor can see what they're doing if they need to manually secure the points due to a signal failure, and then so that the drivers can check the points have been correctly secured before passing over them.
How can the drivers see the positions of the points? It seems like the train is going too fast. And the lights are usually on at all times...

Anyway:
-How come sometimes on the Victoria line the train breaks incredibly aggressively, throwing some people across the train!
-When the S Stock comes, will the Metropolitan line go faster on the long sections?
-What dictates maximum line speed?
-What are these constant "engineering works" part closures on the weekends for? It seems a bit... excessive... do other systems around the world have as many part closures?
-I heard from a forum that the new Victoria line signalling will be fixed block, is this true?

Thanks in advance!

Last edited by iampuking; May 27th, 2007 at 12:35 AM.
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Old May 27th, 2007, 01:18 PM   #1503
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Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
How can the drivers see the positions of the points? It seems like the train is going too fast. And the lights are usually on at all times...
When the ATO fails and trains are driven manually on the Vic and Central lines speed is limited to a crawl (5-10mph), and drivers are explicitly told to ensure points are set correctly for them.

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Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
How come sometimes on the Victoria line the train breaks incredibly aggressively, throwing some people across the train!
The trains are getting a bit old and the braking doesn't respond exactly how its supposed to, so without last-ditch intervention they can often overrun the monitors. The drivers have to manually apply the emergency brake just as the train is coming to a halt to ensure it stops where its supposed to (you'll hear a whooshing sound from the front of the train as the driver applies the emergency brake followed by a farting noise from each car, as retarders release excess brake pressure). This leads to a very sudden halt just as people are standing up to get off. The 2009 stock should hopefully put and end to this!

Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
When the S Stock comes, will the Metropolitan line go faster on the long sections?

What dictates maximum line speed?
The answer to the second question answers the first: Line speed is dictated by the track, either curvature or its quality. Therefore technically the JLE has no line speed as such, as the track is so good and straight that trains can go as fast as they physically can provided they stop at the stations. Metropolitan line speeds have been decreased from 70mph to 60mph due to deteriorating track, and unless the track is replaced the S Stocks will be similarly constrained. Even on an A Stock speeds of over 100mph have allegedly been reached on the long downhill sections coming into London from The Chiltern Hills, the onus is on the driver to shut off at 60mph and apply the brake to prevent the train picking up further speed due to the downhill gradient.

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Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
What are these constant "engineering works" part closures on the weekends for? It seems a bit... excessive... do other systems around the world have as many part closures?
Of course all networks have to close sections from time to time for essential works, but the difference with London at the moment is we're carrying out about 10 year's worth of outstanding works, so the closures are much more frequent. Blame underinvestment over the past 2 decades.

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Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
I heard from a forum that the new Victoria line signalling will be fixed block, is this true?
Hmmm possibly, they may just be using new trains on the existing ATO infrastructure?
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Old May 27th, 2007, 07:26 PM   #1504
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On wikipedia, it says the Vic is getting "more mordern" ATO, but it doesn't specify what type. But I read on another forum that it'll be "fixed block". I guess we'll have to wait and see really...

Thanks a bunch for all your replies Tubeman, it's really interesting!

Sorry two more!

-The Central line is getting a new westbound platform at Stratford for the Olympics, does this mean a completely new bit of track? Or will the platform just be on the other side of the existing track a la Arnos Grove?

-According to Metronet's image library, the SSL stock will have transverse seating, but it's got a large gap between the bottom of the seat and the floor, after the IRA's bombing campaign is it really a good idea to leave such a large gap? A bomb could easily be placed there.

Thanks again!

Last edited by iampuking; May 27th, 2007 at 08:56 PM.
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Old May 27th, 2007, 11:03 PM   #1505
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What's wrong with the Bakerloo? Never really have much problems with it. The only problem I can think of is that many services don't go beyond Queen's Park.

It's smelly; noisy; slow; dirty etc.


Yes, i also hate te Vic. Line
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Old May 27th, 2007, 11:09 PM   #1506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DFM View Post
It's smelly; noisy; slow; dirty etc.


Yes, i also hate te Vic. Line
Smelly? How is the Bakerloo smellier then other lines? How is it noisier than other lines, apparently the Bakerloo is the quietest! So that throws your theory out the window. The Bakerloo is slow, i'll give you that. But dirty? How is it dirtier than other lines?

And why do you hate the Victoria line?

Stop saying things without any evidence to back them up. And to me it doesn't sound like you hate specific lines, just the London Underground in general
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Old May 28th, 2007, 01:09 PM   #1507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
-The Central line is getting a new westbound platform at Stratford for the Olympics, does this mean a completely new bit of track? Or will the platform just be on the other side of the existing track a la Arnos Grove?
I suspect a new wider platform will be built above the embankment on the south side of the station complex, as the Central Line Westbound is the furthest south track, so as you suspect it will be like Arnos Grove / Barking / Golders Green / Uxbridge / Morden with platforms on both sides of the train. Pretty pointless though, as I presume the vast bulk of visitors will be alighting from eastbound trains, not westbound (not many tourists stay in Leytonstone!). I very much doubt the tunnels etc would be realigned or anything, this would be far too costly, with questionable benefit (the current arrangement with cross-platform transfer to the mainline servcies is ideal).

Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
-According to Metronet's image library, the SSL stock will have transverse seating, but it's got a large gap between the bottom of the seat and the floor, after the IRA's bombing campaign is it really a good idea to leave such a large gap? A bomb could easily be placed there.
I wouldn't pay too much attention to the computer-generated renders... I very much doubt the final seating plan will be confirmed until after the first prototype is built. These days we should be more worried about bombs with the terrorists still attached to them than IRA-style bombs under seats... From the terrorists' point of view its too risky just leaving them lying around as they would quickly be discovered and the services suspended (i.e. no casualties), and moreover forensic evidence could be gleaned from the disarmed bomb.
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Old May 28th, 2007, 01:14 PM   #1508
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Actually, I just realised the additional westbound platform would make a lot of sense... this is where olympicgoers would wait after a day's watching the games... the current platform would become very dangerous if there were a delay as it is an island with the mainline on one side and central line on the other and only one entrance / exit at one end. Passenger numbers can be much more easily and safely controlled with a new, dedicated, wider platform on the other side of the train. Doors could be opened on the existing platform first for egress from the train then a few seconds later on the new platform side, which could be access only, improving passenger flows.
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Old May 28th, 2007, 05:45 PM   #1509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Smelly? How is the Bakerloo smellier then other lines? How is it noisier than other lines, apparently the Bakerloo is the quietest! So that throws your theory out the window. The Bakerloo is slow, i'll give you that. But dirty? How is it dirtier than other lines?

And why do you hate the Victoria line?

Stop saying things without any evidence to back them up. And to me it doesn't sound like you hate specific lines, just the London Underground in general

What! I pratacly grew up on the Underground! I love the: Picadilly
Central
Distrit
Hamm. & C.
Circle
Jubbile
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Old May 28th, 2007, 09:48 PM   #1510
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Hi Tubeman

Do you know why Old Shoreditch Station (On The Corner Of Old Street And Kingsland Road) was closed?

Thanks
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Old May 28th, 2007, 10:39 PM   #1511
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Hi Tubeman

Do you know why Old Shoreditch Station (On The Corner Of Old Street And Kingsland Road) was closed?

Thanks
I was just about to launch into a post about the Shoreditch station that closed last year on Brick Lane... Then I re-read you post!

Shoreditch and Haggerston stations closed in 1940 due to bomb damage and never re-opened, despite the fact that passenger trains continued passing the abandoned platforms until the late 1980's. Whilst it was common for stations to close temporarily due to enemy action, many Inner London stations that did so were never re-opened as passenger numbers were already light due to bus and tram competition and it was therefore not worth the expenditure during Postwar austerity to rebuild.

Shoreditch will never reopen, the new Hoxton station being slightly further to the north (in a slightly bizarre backstreet location if you ask me), whereas the new Haggerston station will be on the same site as the original.
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Old May 28th, 2007, 11:51 PM   #1512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DFM View Post
What! I pratacly grew up on the Underground! I love the: Picadilly
Central
Distrit
Hamm. & C.
Circle
Jubbile
You didn't answer my questions.
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Old May 29th, 2007, 11:55 AM   #1513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
I suspect a new wider platform will be built above the embankment on the south side of the station complex, as the Central Line Westbound is the furthest south track, so as you suspect it will be like Arnos Grove / Barking / Golders Green / Uxbridge / Morden with platforms on both sides of the train. Pretty pointless though, as I presume the vast bulk of visitors will be alighting from eastbound trains, not westbound (not many tourists stay in Leytonstone!). I very much doubt the tunnels etc would be realigned or anything, this would be far too costly, with questionable benefit (the current arrangement with cross-platform transfer to the mainline servcies is ideal).



I wouldn't pay too much attention to the computer-generated renders... I very much doubt the final seating plan will be confirmed until after the first prototype is built. These days we should be more worried about bombs with the terrorists still attached to them than IRA-style bombs under seats... From the terrorists' point of view its too risky just leaving them lying around as they would quickly be discovered and the services suspended (i.e. no casualties), and moreover forensic evidence could be gleaned from the disarmed bomb.
I know we have more of a worry of suicide bombers these days, but hey, who knows what the threat is in the future! Thanks for your answers!
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Old May 29th, 2007, 07:18 PM   #1514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
I was just about to launch into a post about the Shoreditch station that closed last year on Brick Lane... Then I re-read you post!

Shoreditch and Haggerston stations closed in 1940 due to bomb damage and never re-opened, despite the fact that passenger trains continued passing the abandoned platforms until the late 1980's. Whilst it was common for stations to close temporarily due to enemy action, many Inner London stations that did so were never re-opened as passenger numbers were already light due to bus and tram competition and it was therefore not worth the expenditure during Postwar austerity to rebuild.

Shoreditch will never reopen, the new Hoxton station being slightly further to the north (in a slightly bizarre backstreet location if you ask me), whereas the new Haggerston station will be on the same site as the original.
Very interesting.Thank you very much.
Do you by any chance know how many stations (tube/rail) London had in mmmm 1920s?More or less than today?I think more...Whitechapel alone had like 3 stations - Whitechapel St Mary and Leman Street plus 2 goods stations.
What was the point in having so many stations in such small area?



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Old May 29th, 2007, 09:23 PM   #1515
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God the Northern line is awful I had to use it today between Moorgate and Euston. Euston station was badly lit, confusing and dirty. In Moorgate the train was too short for the platform (this happens at a few Northern line station) and it was so crowded because the trains are infrequent and only 6 cars. Tubeman, do you think it would ever be feasible to split the Northern line into two lines, the Charing Cross branch could go to Edgware, and the Bank branch to High Barnet, the High Barent & Bank branch could be called it's old name... City & South London, or would that be too long? Would it make sense to extend the platforms to accomodate 7 or 8 car trains, on the Bank branch either? Also, I read about air conditioning on the tube in the papers, it said some air cooling thing would be installed at Oxford Circus, great news! But do you have any clue how it works?
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Old May 30th, 2007, 12:28 AM   #1516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Greco View Post
Very interesting.Thank you very much.
Do you by any chance know how many stations (tube/rail) London had in mmmm 1920s?More or less than today?I think more...Whitechapel alone had like 3 stations - Whitechapel St Mary and Leman Street plus 2 goods stations.
What was the point in having so many stations in such small area?

I think that with the inclusion of the DLR London has probably more railway stations than ever, but up until World War 1 there was a proliferation of inner London mainline stations which closed during the war never to reopen, and those which did reopen then closed for good during World war 2.

Mainline companies were a little overambitous with station provision in Inner London during 'Railway Mania', perhaps the stiff competition from trams, tubes and buses was at that time unforseen. Of a very long list I can think of:

Borough Road, Walworth Road, Camberwell (all between Blackfriars and Loughborough Jcn)

Camden Road, Haverstock Hill (between St Pancras and West Hampstead)

Holloway (next to Holloway Rd tube)

Spa Road, Commercial Dock (between London Bridge and Deptford)

Leman Street, Cannon Street Road (between Fenchurch St and Limehouse)

Mile End, Globe Town, Coborn Road (Between Liverpool St and Stratford)

...The aforementioned Shoreditch and Haggerston (between Broad St and Dalston Jcn)

Also factor in the fact that we were often seeing several competing railway companies building stations near to one another... there was no TFL or strategic transport planning then. For example at one point Shepherd's Bush had 4 different stations on different lines, all within a few hundred yards of each other (H&C, Central, West London line, London & South-western... the latter now closed and the line dismantled). There are tons of other anomalies of adjacent stations with no interchange, as I said there was no planning, just stiff competition for passengers.
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Old May 30th, 2007, 02:16 AM   #1517
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^ Thank you!
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Old May 30th, 2007, 04:43 PM   #1518
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You didn't answer my questions.

Well I might be wrong (I haven't been on it since '02 but I remember it as being not very nice.
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Old May 30th, 2007, 08:01 PM   #1519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Tubeman, do you think it would ever be feasible to split the Northern line into two lines,
I think effectively it already is in terms of service patterns. Tubemans has said previously that actually spiitting it would reduce the flexibility (for example drivers not knowing the road) when there is a problem on one branch.

Quote:
Also, I read about air conditioning on the tube in the papers, it said some air cooling thing would be installed at Oxford Circus, great news! But do you have any clue how it works?
See:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...ntre/4987.aspx
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...ntre/5217.aspx
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Old May 31st, 2007, 01:10 PM   #1520
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One good idea would be for London Underground to put signs around Northern Line stations warning that you shouldnt use it if you are travelling to a schedule, e.g going to work, meeting someone at a certain time etc.
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