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Old July 5th, 2007, 02:01 AM   #1661
Petr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
I was spot on then, 1970's

If you're feeling like a real nerd watch the brake gauge on any train with E.P. + Rheostatic / Electrodynamic / Regenerative braking.

When the train starts braking the brake pressure needle initially jumps up to provide immediate response to the brake application made. As soon as the Rheo 'proves' (i.e. the moaning / whining noise starts) all the air is released from the brakes as braking becomes purely electrical (i.e. no fricition), and it remains so until speed reduces to about 10-15kmh below which the Rheo is ineffective, so the brake gauge needle will again jump up as air re-enters the brake cylinders and the brake blocks re-apply until the train comes to a halt.

The principle of Rheostatic braking is that one motor becomes a dynamo generator to supply the energy to reverse the field on the other motor, thus they both mutually slow each other down without any friction brakes being applied. This reduces wear & tear and tunnel dust (which is mostly formed from brake blocks).
I've read about this on the Polish site http://www.transportszynowy.pl/metro81budowa.php, and now I generally understand Your explanation, otherwise this technical English would be to difficult for me. Some terms even in Polish are for me hardly understandable. Too much time has passed since my last physics lesson and my knowledge after social studies...
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Old July 5th, 2007, 05:25 PM   #1662
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I would be surprised if any tunnels on the ECML have speed limits higher than 100mph.
A total of 14 tunnels need to be constructed. The longest being the London Tunnel, 19Km (12 miles) from Islington, just above the ECML, to Dagenham. The line briefly comes to the surface for Stratford Station. This will be a joint domestic/ international station, and the London stop for Eurostar services running north of London. It is being built as a large box, with a line for E.C.S. trains rising through the middle. Five huge shafts of 17.15 metres diameter ventilate the twin bore, single-track tunnels and provide emergency access points. Maximum speed through the tunnel will be 225kph (140 mph). A large concrete segment factory is being set up at Stratford.

From: http://www.lococarriage.org.uk/ctrl.htm
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Old July 5th, 2007, 09:48 PM   #1663
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Thats good news then!
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Old July 6th, 2007, 12:36 AM   #1664
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A total of 14 tunnels need to be constructed. The longest being the London Tunnel, 19Km (12 miles) from Islington, just above the ECML, to Dagenham. The line briefly comes to the surface for Stratford Station. This will be a joint domestic/ international station, and the London stop for Eurostar services running north of London. It is being built as a large box, with a line for E.C.S. trains rising through the middle. Five huge shafts of 17.15 metres diameter ventilate the twin bore, single-track tunnels and provide emergency access points. Maximum speed through the tunnel will be 225kph (140 mph). A large concrete segment factory is being set up at Stratford.

From: http://www.lococarriage.org.uk/ctrl.htm
Interesting... So do we know why the Channel Tunnel proper has always had a 100mph / 160 kmh limit? Does seem a bit strange.
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Old July 6th, 2007, 01:29 PM   #1665
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Interesting... So do we know why the Channel Tunnel proper has always had a 100mph / 160 kmh limit? Does seem a bit strange.
There was a post on another thread a few months ago that explained the pathing of the Eurostar trains when inter twined with the the shuttle trains in the channel tunnel.

In summary running faster Eurostar trains consumes 2-3 extra paths through the tunnel. It has to do with capacity.
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Old July 6th, 2007, 05:01 PM   #1666
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^ I think also being such a large tunnel without much ventilation i.e. shafts coming to the surface, if you go too fast it gets too hot in the tunnel... i remember seeing something along those lines on the Discovery Channel...
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Old July 7th, 2007, 10:40 AM   #1667
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There was a post on another thread a few months ago that explained the pathing of the Eurostar trains when inter twined with the the shuttle trains in the channel tunnel.

In summary running faster Eurostar trains consumes 2-3 extra paths through the tunnel. It has to do with capacity.
Oh yeah that rings a bell now
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Old July 7th, 2007, 01:03 PM   #1668
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Hi Tubeman, after reading a thread on the UK skybar, I was wondering roughly how many people go under trains, whether it be murder, accident or suicide in any one year, and what the procedure for the driver is. My father in law is a guard on S.W.T.(Shit) and he says its quite common on railways, so I wondered about the tube. Cheers
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Old July 8th, 2007, 01:42 AM   #1669
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Tubeman, I heard that the track on the Jubilee line extension is so good that it has no speed limit, is this true? If so, how fast will it go when the Jubilee line becomes ATO?
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Old July 8th, 2007, 01:33 PM   #1670
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Hi Tubeman, after reading a thread on the UK skybar, I was wondering roughly how many people go under trains, whether it be murder, accident or suicide in any one year, and what the procedure for the driver is. My father in law is a guard on S.W.T.(Shit) and he says its quite common on railways, so I wondered about the tube. Cheers
Obviously it varies from year to year and also depends on the time of year (a January during an economic recession is usually the worst), but we'd have between 50 and 100 'One unders' per year. Murders are extremely rare (maybe once very 5 years) and of the remainder its probably about 50:50 accident:suicide. The District Line had a rash of them at the start of this year, including a double accidental fatality at Barking (two graffiti writers), a dubious one at Barking a few weeks later (teenager walking along the middle of the track facing the train), a suicide at Bromley-by-Bow, plus the one in question on the UK thread which appears to have been accidental (fell down the gap as a train departed). There was another notable double one under at Earl's Court when I was on duty at the end of last year, when a group of QPR trainees were mucking about on the platform and one fell over the edge and pulled an innocent Vietnamese student with him: the student died and the QPR trainee lived, peversely.

On the District Line I remember a week when I was a driver still (so 1999-2001) when there were 4, but that was exceptional. It was January, the peak time for depression (Post-Christmas blues, financial worries, SAD syndrome). The worst one was at Upminster Bridge where the platforms are 12 cars long so trains hit the start of the platform at about 40mph, the guy jumped really late and came through the windscreen and showered the poor driver (another friend of mine) with bits of head. Fortunately the driver was able to return, I'm not so sure about the lad who had the double fatality at Barking however.

There's no procedure in the Rule book at the request of the Unions which is fine: all the driver is expected to do is notify Service Control and then do as much as they feel able with regard to turning off Traction Current etc. It would be unfair to prescribe a procedure that a driver is expected to adhere to when they're in a severe state of shock (its been known for the driver to leave in an ambulance too), as it might have safety implications.
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Old July 8th, 2007, 01:35 PM   #1671
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Tubeman, I heard that the track on the Jubilee line extension is so good that it has no speed limit, is this true? If so, how fast will it go when the Jubilee line becomes ATO?
It already touches 100kmh along some sections (e.g. Canada Water to Canary Wharf) so with ATO perhaps a bit faster. Obviously the constraint is having to stop at each platform or slow to 5mph past the starting signal if running empty, so we're not talking Shinkansen speeds or anything!
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Old July 9th, 2007, 06:09 PM   #1672
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I'm not sure if this has been covered yet, but I've always wondered who the woman is who does the voice for the network updates? Is it preprogrammed software that just says what is typed, or is an actual 'live' person who records the announcements for the whole network?

I only ask because the other day almost immediately after the central line derailment she came over the tannoy with 'Due to a derailment on the Central line at Mile End, there is currently no service between Leytonstone and Liverpool Street. London Undergroud tickets will be valid on local bus services' which I thought was pretty complicated if it is software.

Also, do you know when the London Overground network and Stratford International extension will become 'under construction' on the printed map? It always excites me when I spot something on a new Tube map.
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Old July 9th, 2007, 11:58 PM   #1673
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I'm not sure if this has been covered yet, but I've always wondered who the woman is who does the voice for the network updates? Is it preprogrammed software that just says what is typed, or is an actual 'live' person who records the announcements for the whole network?

I only ask because the other day almost immediately after the central line derailment she came over the tannoy with 'Due to a derailment on the Central line at Mile End, there is currently no service between Leytonstone and Liverpool Street. London Undergroud tickets will be valid on local bus services' which I thought was pretty complicated if it is software.

Also, do you know when the London Overground network and Stratford International extension will become 'under construction' on the printed map? It always excites me when I spot something on a new Tube map.
All of the 'sonia' DVA announcements on trains were recorded by an actress, but the more complex announcements you noted are put together by computer from pre-recorded words. Quite clever how they could be mistaken for a complete pre-recorded announcement though: they don't sound like cut & paste jobs.

I suspect the Overground network will appear from this November, when Silverlink is taken over by TFL. Failing that, not until 2010 when the ELLE opens.
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Old July 13th, 2007, 12:12 AM   #1674
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Tubeman, are the escalators on the JLE faster, they seem quicker to me.

And why don't they make the escalators faster? They are so slowwww...
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Old July 13th, 2007, 03:58 PM   #1675
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I'm not sure if this has been covered yet, but I've always wondered who the woman is who does the voice for the network updates?
http://www.emmaclarke.com/demos.asp

Quote:
And why don't they make the escalators faster?
I know what you mean so just some ideas:
a) People often do not or cannot (eg. elderly) get off the escalator quickly enough.
b) There may not be much space between the top of the escalator and a small number of gates. So there is s limit to the rate at which you can sensibly deliver people into the area befoe it gets too crowded

I guess its better to have a crowd waiting to get on the escalator than a crowd blocking way off or falling over as they get off.

Last edited by Acemcbuller; July 16th, 2007 at 03:02 PM.
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Old July 15th, 2007, 12:31 PM   #1676
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Tubeman, are the escalators on the JLE faster, they seem quicker to me.

And why don't they make the escalators faster? They are so slowwww...
I'd have thought that there would be a standard speed for all escalators on LU, but I'm not an escalator expert! maybe the JLE ones are a little faster.

Different speeds have been experimented with in the past and the current one is deemed the optimum. Too fast and they become more dangerous and you might risk a pile-up of people at the top if the flow of people away is slower than the escalator.
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Old July 19th, 2007, 07:16 PM   #1677
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Thanks Tubeman.

I was wondering (again!) about Canning Town station when the DLR extension to Stratford International opens, and the fact that there will be seperate platforms for trains heading to and from Stratford International and towards town... Will they have like a dot matrix screen somewhere telling them which platform to go to for the next London City train or Beckton?
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Old July 19th, 2007, 08:15 PM   #1678
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Hi Tubeman,

How is it decided what zone stations go into ? I know that Simon Hughes MP for Southwark and Bermondsey has been campaigning to have Bermondsey re-designated as being in both zones 1 and 2 - like the Elephant & Castle and Vauxhall. Any chance of it happening ?
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Old July 20th, 2007, 09:39 AM   #1679
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Thanks Tubeman.

I was wondering (again!) about Canning Town station when the DLR extension to Stratford International opens, and the fact that there will be seperate platforms for trains heading to and from Stratford International and towards town... Will they have like a dot matrix screen somewhere telling them which platform to go to for the next London City train or Beckton?
The only platform from which Bank / Tower gateway trains will depart is the current city-bound one as the junction between the routes will be to the south of Canning Town. I seem to recall the ultimate aim is for Stratford International to Dagenham Dock to operate as a separate entity, therefore you won't have too much confusion or running between platforms... This will only apply to stations between Canning Town and Gallions Reach to which trains could arrive at either eastbound platform.
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Old July 20th, 2007, 09:41 AM   #1680
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Hi Tubeman,

How is it decided what zone stations go into ? I know that Simon Hughes MP for Southwark and Bermondsey has been campaigning to have Bermondsey re-designated as being in both zones 1 and 2 - like the Elephant & Castle and Vauxhall. Any chance of it happening ?
I think its purely distance from a central point (Charing Cross?) with each ring being elliptical (i.e. wider west to east than north to south). I suppose the stations deemed in two zones must have fallen on or near these distance rings. It seems a bit silly having stations in two zones to me... Its bad for revenue if nothing else.
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