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Old August 12th, 2007, 06:36 PM   #1721
iampuking
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That's a minor blip compared to his spelling and grammar mistakes...
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Old August 12th, 2007, 07:04 PM   #1722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
hopefully this won't sound like a silly question...

.are there any new tube lines or extensions planed that are big e.g. jubilee line exention etc
The East London Line Extension and Crossrail are the main ones.
Have a look at alwaystouchout.com/

James
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Old August 13th, 2007, 02:07 AM   #1723
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I really should stop but...

-Why have recent refurbishments of stations not had lifts fitted? Most stations in central London are impossible to get into for the mobility impaired yet nothing seems to be being done about it...
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Old August 13th, 2007, 10:39 PM   #1724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
hopefully this won't sound like a silly question...

.are there any new tube lines or extensions planed that are big e.g. jubilee line exention etc
Technically nothing definite insofar that the East London Line extension will essentially be Network Rail (or rather TFL Overground), and Crossrail will also be NR.

The closest we have to an LUL extension is Metropolitan to Watford Junction (essentially the terminus at Watford will be abandoned and the current branch diverted over the abandoned BR Croxley Green branch to Watford Junction), although for such a small amount of new works (about 250m of viaduct) there's been f-all progress lately. Similarly the Bakerloo will probably end up being extended back to Watford Junction again (it used to) and the slow Silverlink service to Euston abandoned within the next few years.

A Bakerloo extension from Elephant & Castle to Hayes (Kent) is again being looked at, but that's probably as far as it'll ever get.
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Old August 14th, 2007, 08:09 AM   #1725
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I guess the lost of the East London Line to the London Overground will drop the total amount of stations significantly, lowering London on the global scale of Network sizes (not that it matters, but these statistics are always interesting)

Then again, do you think they will add the London Overground as "part" of London Underground in much the same way as the DLR is?
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Old August 14th, 2007, 08:28 PM   #1726
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i heard that (correct me if i'm wrong) the east london LINE, will ne called the east london RAILWAY???for some weird reason???
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Old August 14th, 2007, 08:53 PM   #1727
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No... It will be called the London Overground, along with the North & West London lines that TfL are taking over.
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Old August 14th, 2007, 10:41 PM   #1728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
No... It will be called the London Overground, along with the North & West London lines that TfL are taking over.
...However I think poshbakerloo is correct in that under the Overground umbrella the ELL will be called the East London Railway.
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Old August 14th, 2007, 10:45 PM   #1729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme View Post
I guess the lost of the East London Line to the London Overground will drop the total amount of stations significantly, lowering London on the global scale of Network sizes (not that it matters, but these statistics are always interesting)

Then again, do you think they will add the London Overground as "part" of London Underground in much the same way as the DLR is?
Its all semantics really... Its inevitable that the TFL overground routes will appear on the Tube map and so I think all TFL routes (i.e. Tube + DLR + Overground) will be considered as a single entity. Many Tokyo subway lines are privately owned and operated and yet you'd never dream of excluding any from the route km / stations total for this reason.

I think ultimately much of the suburban NR network will fall under TFL control and as such the 'Tube' map will gain scores of 'new' stations over the coming decades.
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Old August 15th, 2007, 08:28 AM   #1730
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Thanks Tubeman. Does anyone have a map of the new overground that will be open (is it Nov this year?) showing all stations? I have seen some that only show major stations, but not all.
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Old August 15th, 2007, 02:17 PM   #1731
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...

Last edited by bigbossman; July 4th, 2012 at 08:47 PM.
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Old August 15th, 2007, 02:58 PM   #1732
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4. i think instead of building crossrail they should concentrate on using existing capacity to increase the network especially by extending the underground to south london. the district line could easily run a loop around kingston taking over the services and other extensions are possible. south london wants and needs the tube, crossrail wont benefit us.
Can I just say that from the perspective of someone who has lived in our cities in the world which have the equivalent of crossrail (which incidentally is common across Europe) I have to say that it is incredibly beneficial.

London is sorely lacking in this type of network.
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Old August 15th, 2007, 08:27 PM   #1733
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Tubeman, what did the original City & South London tiling look like?
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Old August 15th, 2007, 08:42 PM   #1734
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Quote:
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Thanks Tubeman. Does anyone have a map of the new overground that will be open (is it Nov this year?) showing all stations? I have seen some that only show major stations, but not all.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5316358.stm

2010 Tube map, if that helps.
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Old August 16th, 2007, 01:14 PM   #1735
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Old August 16th, 2007, 01:28 PM   #1736
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Tubeman,

On the subject of the City and South London line. I realise that when first constructed it had a terminus at King William Street in the City. This was closed and a new station south of the river opened at London Bridge together with two new Thames tunnels to carry the line on its present alignment to Bank.

However, the C&SL was noted for the small diameter of its tunnels (about 10'6"). When the line was upgraded, was the diameter increased not only in the new sections but in the existing section that went down as far as Stockwell?

What I'm really asking is if any of the small diameter section still remains in use.
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Old August 16th, 2007, 03:07 PM   #1737
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According to http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/northern.html it seems yes almost the whole stretch from Euston to Stockwell was enlarged.

Reading http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/s...n/index1.shtml and http://www.pendar.pwp.blueyonder.co...._Street_1.html
the abandoned King William Street branch starts just after Borough passes the above the platforms at London bridge.
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Old August 16th, 2007, 05:29 PM   #1738
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I'm curious: Are the Jubilee Line Extension tunnels built to modern day size and standards or did they in the spirit of continuity built tunnels the same olden day tube size?
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Old August 16th, 2007, 05:31 PM   #1739
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alright tubeman, got a few questions for ya

1. i was looking and the southern franchise is up for grabs in 2009, do you reckon that they'll transfer the metro services to ken and he can fully integrate them into london overground? i personally think that would be perfect.

2. i heard that i t was once planned to extend the waterloo and city line to the northern city but the city blocket it coz they were worried that their buildings would subside, with modern technology would it now be possible, then it can be conceived that it could be extended to the northern heights bringing a new underground line with minimal tunnelling. also a southern extension would be a good idea. this would be good with thameslink 2000 taking over some of the great northern services into moorgate, meaning people have an aleternative city route, freeing up the northern city. what do you thik.

3. do you think that once the dlr is etended to charing cross they'll re-openm the aldwych branch of the piccadilly and extend it waterloo.

4. i think instead of building crossrail they should concentrate on using existing capacity to increase the network especially by extending the underground to south london. the district line could easily run a loop around kingston taking over the services and other extensions are possible. south london wants and needs the tube, crossrail wont benefit us.

5. finally how does the tube regenerate an area, as far as i am aware islington is the 6th poorest borough in london but it is probably one of the most well conencted transport wise, therefore i doubt that bringing the tube to hackney will have a difference, you'll just get clusters of yuppies around the nice areas but like islington the rest will still be a dump!! what do you think?
1) I think TFL definitely want to assume control of all suburban mainline services in due course, the takeover of Silverlink is just the beginning. How long it takes and if it ever happens is anyone's guess however... The Silverlink takeover in November will be the real litmus test. If its a success I'd expect a lot of franchises to be taken over by TFL, obviously with a private partner (Hong Kong's MTR is the partner for 'Overground').

2) Yes it was once proposed to link the W&C and GN&C, but really I think its pretty impractical now. The W&C is poorly engineered (some tight curves, 4 car trains) so muddles through as a little shuttle but can't realistically be extended or tacked onto another line. The GN&C however is an entirely different kettle of fish and I think is a prime candidate for a southern extension to form a second north-south Thameslink-type route, although again the platforms are short which is a bit of a hindrance. An obvious option to me would be linking it to Cannon Street, less than a mile of tunnel but opening up a lot of possible cross-London routes (including your suggested re-opening of the Northern heights).

3) I doubt it... I'm not aware of an intermediate station at Aldwych being part of the bargain for a DLR extension to Charing X, perhaps if there is one proposed there would be some merit to it. Extending the Aldwych branch to Waterloo was proposed in the past, but I suspect without running through trains beyond Holborn to King's Cross (which would damagingly decrease capacity west of Holborn) it would be a bit pointless unless people wanted to travel specifically from Waterloo to Aldwych or Holborn (a route which is served by tons of buses).

4) The Tubes are already at capacity by and large: The District line is already at bursting point on the Wimbledon branch so adding a load more stations (I presume you mean via the Kingston Loop to Richmond?) would make matters worse, and the Northern Line to Morden is also similarly busy. The two options realistically open are extending the Bakerloo beyond Elephant & Castle (currently being seriously looked at), and splitting the Northern Line into two halves and extending the Charing X branch south from Kennington.

The Bakerloo extension proposed stops at Camberwell, Peckham, Nunhead, Brockley, Lewisham and then south to Hayes taking over the existing NR branch.

My proposed Charing X branch extension would see stations at Brixton, Brixton Hill, Streatham Hill, Streatham, Norbury, Thornton Heath Pond, West Croydon and East Croydon... either with a terminal loop or perhaps continuing beyond to take over the Caterham and Tattenham Corner NR branches at Purley.

5) You have a point about Islington (my home borough)... It is fairly well served by the Tube and the affluent areas (Angel, Highbury) mostly reflect this with the crappiest areas like Hoxton, Finsbury, Upper Holloway not having Tube stations. There are however areas like Lower Holloway, Caledonian Road and Archway which have good Tube access and yet are still dumps. Some areas, like mine (Finsbury) are just full of grotty estates so haven't been gentrified in the same manner that the houses of Angel and Highbury have been. Yuppies convert subdivided houses back into family homes, but tend to give sink estates a wide berth, regardless of how close to the Tube they are. Its more about housing stock than anything else therefore. Hackney has a lot of decent Victorian housing subdivided into flats which would be turned into family homes if made more accessible by having a decent Tube link.
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Old August 16th, 2007, 05:36 PM   #1740
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I'm curious: Are the Jubilee Line Extension tunnels built to modern day size and standards or did they in the spirit of continuity built tunnels the same olden day tube size?
Neither... As the Jubilee line extension was extending an existing 'Tube' tunnel in parts 70 years old, trains could only be as large as the smallest tunnel (i.e. standard 'Tube' size), but the JLE was built with a larger diameter purely to accommodate an evacuation walkway alongside the track. Therefore the JLE is larger diameter than standard 'Tube' tunnel, but still far smaller than surface stock size tunnel.
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