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Old December 7th, 2005, 11:58 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pricemazda
What was the former name of Covent Garden station?
Since when was this station renamed???

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Old December 8th, 2005, 12:02 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick-taylor
I found a map of the extended DLR network and it shows the various lines:


It is amazing to see how the system has grown over the years - most small to medium sized towns would be thrilled to have a system such as this - yet within the London context this is a small network which only serves a very limited area!

Its just a shame that its all in low lying areas close to the river - I say this because as sea levels rise (global climate change) so these areas will be flooded first.

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Old December 8th, 2005, 12:03 AM   #163
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I noticed it today when I was waiting for the train, i saw in the tiles a part of a name ...bury. Presumably the station was renamed.
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Old December 8th, 2005, 12:33 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pricemazda
I noticed it today when I was waiting for the train, i saw in the tiles a part of a name ...bury. Presumably the station was renamed.
It's part of 'Trains to Finsbury Park' which appeared on the platforms I think. I've seen something similar at South Kensington (I think).
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Old December 8th, 2005, 12:37 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme
Thanks Razional Plan.

Another DLR question. When is the Woolwich Arsenal extension scheduled for completion? Do you think this may help reduce the pressure on the Lewisham - Bank route, as some people who may transfer from NR to the DLR before Cutty Sark will use the new Woolwich Arsenal station and different line?
Early 2009 (far too long in my opinion)

I guess it would, afterall that's probably why it was extended there in the first place. And it will be used by Olympic spectators for Shooting Events at Woolwich in 2012. It's a bit annoying it couldn't have somehow looped back and gone further to Thamesmead but heyho.
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Old December 8th, 2005, 10:57 PM   #166
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Question about the map: why is it that they don't have transfer indications for some stations (Gloucester Road), but they do for some others (South Ken)? Is it just the preferred transfer points for the Underground?

Also, what lines do you personally think terminate short of where they should? Aldgate and the Metropolitan Line? Hammersmith and the H&C line?
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Old December 8th, 2005, 11:02 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme
Thanks Rational Plan.

Another DLR question. When is the Woolwich Arsenal extension scheduled for completion? Do you think this may help reduce the pressure on the Lewisham - Bank route, as some people who may transfer from NR to the DLR before Cutty Sark will use the new Woolwich Arsenal station and different line?
2009, I don't think it will have much effect on the Lewisham Bank route as it will be much quicker to Get to Canary Wharf from Greenwich and Lewisham rather than from Woolwich. The new connection will open up the travel to work area for the Royal Docks and Stratford, boosting the chance of redevelopment as they become accesible to Kent and Essex commuters.

The 2020 new horizons study will be interesting. This aimed to look at new options for extending the DLR. The previous study was remarkable because most of the options promoted are actually being built! The study was supposed to publish its results in spring, but not a word has been heard.
Rumours suggest a Southern extension from Lewisham to Catford, or Hither Green, both of which would link to longer distance Kent commuters whose trains bypass Lewisham. A western extension for Bank is also proposed but as this is in tunnel I can't imagine it being long because of the cost, maybe Farringdon or Moorgate stations could be linked. Most likely would be further extensions downstream of the Thames to act as a local distributer of commuters to rail stations, allowing more of the Thames Gateway to be developed.
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Old December 9th, 2005, 03:44 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme
Would this include the run from Cutty Sark & Greenwich to Canary Wharf and Bank? This has some underground stations which would be very expensive to expand.
Sorry guys, I've been in Portsmouth for 3 days and therefore have some catching up to do...

I believe that the subterranean stations on the Lewisham Extension were built for 6 cars, so thankfully there was some forward planning involved. In fact, my recollection of standing on Cutty Sark platforms is that they are very long, perhaps even long enough for 8 cars (4 units) of DLR stock.
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Old December 9th, 2005, 03:53 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephasto
Inner London Sub-surface network is the circle routes?

The Metropolitan has 4 tracks up north(in some parts at least north of wembley park) doesn't it? Enabling the Fast/Semi-Fast and Slow services.
Yes, the Metropolitan Line is quadruple from Wembley park to the junction with the Watford Branch, although between Harrow-on-the-Hill and that junction the Chiltern main Line trains share the 'fast' tracks.

Technically Met Trains can use the 'Slow' (=Jubilee) tracks between Wembley Park and Finchley Road if need be, and they were originally built by the Metropolitan railway.
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Old December 9th, 2005, 04:03 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_storms
yes. On a related note, why does the picc have 4 pics for only like 2 stations on the heathrow line? Were they planning to expand these and just never got around to it?
Until 1975 the Heathrow Branch was the Hounslow West Branch, and until 1933 it was exclusively a District Line branch.

Until 1933 the Piccadilly Line terminated at Hammersmith, after which time quadrupling works between there and Northfields enabled Piccadilly Line trains to run out to Uxbridge and Hounslow West. The reason why quadrupling was only completed as far as Northfields is because in connection with the works and Piccadilly Line extension the huge depot at Northfields was constructed for the District and Piccadilly Lines, it was obviously deemed appropriate for 4 tracks between the depot and Acton Town because of the anticipated depot traffic.

Districts to Hounslow West used to run slow and would stop at South ealing, Chiswick Park, Turnham Green, Stamford Brook and Ravenscourt park whilst the Piccadilly Line Hounslow West trains would run fast and miss these stations out. In 1964 the District Line was withdrawn from the then Hounslow West branch and it became exclusively Piccadilly, but Northfields depot remained in use by the District Line for a few more years.

The branch was then extended to Hatton Cross (1975), Heathrow Central (1977), Terminal 4 (1986) and soon Terminal 5 (2008).

The 'extra' tracks between Northfields and Acton Town are today basically redundant, but are kept in use for test trains and diversionary use. I'm not that well versed with the Piccadilly timetable, but they would probably have some trains timetabled over them every day to keep them in working order (so-called 'Rusty rail' Working).
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Old December 9th, 2005, 04:06 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetsetwilly
Was the sticker for the Woolwich Arsenal extension added to show it under construction where it wasn't on the map before, or to conceal the "completed" version of the map, do you think?
If you look carefully, the sticker doesn't cover King george V or part of the track continuing beyond it, so therefore it can be inferred its covering a completed Woolwich Arsenal extension and will be peeled off in 2009!
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Old December 9th, 2005, 04:09 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homesweethome
In the loosist possible way of using this term, for a non train spotter as such is this book

"The Subterranean Railway: How the London Underground Was Built and How It Changed the City Forever"

any good?

i have been living in london for the past 3 months and getting the tube every day jus amazes me!im sure it has some facinating secrets and im wanting to find out a little more about its history, noticed this book and wandered if ne one here has read it?

i get the picalilly line evry day and went on the circle line y day. it was weird, reminded me more of a new yourk subway than the tube. there was more station space and the carriages were much bigger, im guessing this was a more modern line and the pic line was an early line. so there fore smaller? and also when was the most recent line built other than the dlr and jubillee extension?

will that book answert these kinds of questions?

maybe some 1 here knows?

thanx
The biggest trains are on the oldest lines, somewhat peversely

The Sub-Surface Lines were built to main line loading gauges as they carried coaches and freight from off the main lines through the tunnels. The Deep-Level lines which were conceived later were always basically self-contained passenger lines and so were built to the smallest comfortable dimensions to save money.
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Old December 9th, 2005, 04:12 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pricemazda
What was the former name of Covent Garden station?
Its always been 'Covent Garden', the origin of '-bury' has been correctly explained already.

Many Piccadilly Line stations on the original section (Hammersmith to Finsbury Park) have tiling on the wall saying 'Trains to Hammersmith' on the Westbound and 'Trains to Finsbury Park' on the Eastbound with an arrow pointing in the trains direction. Have a look, you're bound to see a few surviving signs.

Last edited by Tubeman; December 9th, 2005 at 04:21 PM.
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Old December 9th, 2005, 04:21 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samsonyuen
Question about the map: why is it that they don't have transfer indications for some stations (Gloucester Road), but they do for some others (South Ken)? Is it just the preferred transfer points for the Underground?

Also, what lines do you personally think terminate short of where they should? Aldgate and the Metropolitan Line? Hammersmith and the H&C line?
Yes, Gloucester Road only has lifts and so an interchange isn't indicated whereas South Kensington has escalators so one is.

Regarding the second question:

Most inner London Underground Line termini are unintentional, for example the Metropolitan & Great Western railways who jointly built the Hammersmith branch from Edgware Road sought powers for a river crossing and a line onwards to Barnes and the L&SWR Main Line, but this was blocked I believe.

Likewise, the Victoria Line was intended to continue beyond Brixton at least to Streatham and possibly to Croydon, and the Bakerloo to Camberwell.

Aldgate is an exception, as the District Line beyond Aldgate East cannot accommodate any more trains so the Metropolitan Line needs to 'stop short'... literally, as the platforms at Aldgate are within touching distance of the District Line.

There are plans afoot for the H&C and Met to 'swap' between Aldgate (East) and Barking, as the Met trains have 2 extra cars and so could increase capacity on a very busy section. This won't happen until the new 'S' Stock comes in though.
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Old December 9th, 2005, 11:20 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman
Sorry guys, I've been in Portsmouth for 3 days and therefore have some catching up to do...

I believe that the subterranean stations on the Lewisham Extension were built for 6 cars, so thankfully there was some forward planning involved. In fact, my recollection of standing on Cutty Sark platforms is that they are very long, perhaps even long enough for 8 cars (4 units) of DLR stock.
Not according to the interview in Modern rail with the head of DLR. It was suprising that such a modern line was not built with such capacity. While Island Gardens is big enough Cutty Sark is not so they will have at least one of set doors shut when they are in the station. I can remember years ago, on the old Northern line trains, the last did not open at one station. I'm not sure if it was Embankment or Charing Cross, all I have a memories of a section of carriage blocked off with a horizontal metal pole (for when they still had guards on the tube) and an announcement about the last door not openening. Does that still happen?
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Old December 10th, 2005, 12:37 AM   #176
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Its at Charing Cross.
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Old December 10th, 2005, 02:12 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rational Plan
Not according to the interview in Modern rail with the head of DLR. It was suprising that such a modern line was not built with such capacity. While Island Gardens is big enough Cutty Sark is not so they will have at least one of set doors shut when they are in the station. I can remember years ago, on the old Northern line trains, the last did not open at one station. I'm not sure if it was Embankment or Charing Cross, all I have a memories of a section of carriage blocked off with a horizontal metal pole (for when they still had guards on the tube) and an announcement about the last door not openening. Does that still happen?
The first single door on the last carriage of the 1959 Stocks had the Guard's Panel and a metal bar that was raised across the gangway; I used to be a Northern Line Guard before they were withdrawn.

We used to cut out the last set of doors at Euston Bank Branch Southbound, I believe these doors still do not open. The leading set of doors at Moorgate Southbound now do not open, the platform there is now deemed too narrow.

The old Northern Line trains had 7 cars and the front and rear of the trains were usually in the tunnel at either end of the platform. When the new trains came in, because they had no Guard, they became 6 cars and the Driver's cab is stopped on the platform (i.e. a few metres short of where they used to stop).
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Old December 10th, 2005, 04:09 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarJoLe
Early 2009 (far too long in my opinion)

I guess it would, afterall that's probably why it was extended there in the first place. And it will be used by Olympic spectators for Shooting Events at Woolwich in 2012. It's a bit annoying it couldn't have somehow looped back and gone further to Thamesmead but heyho.
2009! That's incredibly slow. In fact, it's slower than the Rotherhithe Tunnel which was started in 1904. Amazing that they could build tunnels faster 100 years ago. In fact, the world's first underwater tunnel, also in London was built in 10 years (excluding the break when they needed to find more money) and that was the first time anything like this had ever been done.
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Old December 10th, 2005, 07:56 PM   #179
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Another question.

The subway in Glasgow is the 3rd oldest in the world, after London and Budapest. It is said that the first London Underground line, the Metropolitan line, lent it's name to the globally common term "metro" after cities like Paris called their system the "metropolitan".

Was Glasgow then the first network in the world to be called a "Subway" in which most American subway's were named after?
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Old December 11th, 2005, 03:31 AM   #180
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Tubeman, when will the sub surface lines(SSL) starting to receive the new S-Stock?
Will all SSL receive it? When will they all have it?

As for the tube lines, I know that Victoria line was going to have a new rolling stock... but I haven't been following that... How is it?
And what are the traind going to be? Just the same stile as teh 1995/1996 stocks? (I guess, because that was what was planned about a year or more ago).
Any chance of walk-through type trains like the S-Stock?

PS: I don't buy the excuse that the tunnels are too narrow for walk through type trains... some Madrid short profille lines (Lines 1/2/3/4/5 and R) which are also very narrow are going to receive new walk through type trains(series 3000). If they can do it in Madrid, I guess they could do it too in London.
I'm not asking for air conditioning... I know that's very dificult/impossible... But I must say I wonder how they can fit(the A/C units) it in Madrid's small profile lines(the newer 2000 series and future 3000 series)...
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