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Old August 30th, 2007, 12:41 AM   #1801
Tubeman
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Thanks... Does the Bakerloo line have more modern signalling than other lines with conventional signals? I'm sure I read about it once before, and it doesn't seem to have problems as often as the Piccadilly or Nothern, for example.
I once read somewhere it had more modern 'moving block' signals, but now I work on it, it appears to have bogstandard signalling. Maybe moving block was experimented with at some point?
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Old September 1st, 2007, 03:26 AM   #1802
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I once read somewhere it had more modern 'moving block' signals, but now I work on it, it appears to have bogstandard signalling. Maybe moving block was experimented with at some point?
I know it has bog-standard signalling, but I remember reading that it was more up to date bog-standard signalling, like the Jubilee line extention, hence why the Piccadilly is schedueled for an overhaul in 2014, whereas the Bakerloo is something like 2020...

About the Jubilee line extention signalling... How come there are still signalling failures, there was one at Westminster the other day, I thought signal failures only happen with old signalling!

I was on the Central line the other day at rush hour, and it was crowded, but sometimes the train would start up and start to move and then break violently, it sent everyone flying, including me! This one man went flying onto someone elses seat! It was hilarious! But everyone else was used to it, so used to it that they didn't even apologise... Why did it happen!?!? and it happenned more than once, this occassion was more violent than usual.

Also, there is a new passageway being constructed at Kings Cross, a deep level one, do you have any clues as to where the hell its going?!?

Thanks in advance!

Last edited by iampuking; September 1st, 2007 at 06:52 AM.
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Old September 1st, 2007, 01:06 PM   #1803
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Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
I know it has bog-standard signalling, but I remember reading that it was more up to date bog-standard signalling, like the Jubilee line extention, hence why the Piccadilly is schedueled for an overhaul in 2014, whereas the Bakerloo is something like 2020...

About the Jubilee line extention signalling... How come there are still signalling failures, there was one at Westminster the other day, I thought signal failures only happen with old signalling!

I was on the Central line the other day at rush hour, and it was crowded, but sometimes the train would start up and start to move and then break violently, it sent everyone flying, including me! This one man went flying onto someone elses seat! It was hilarious! But everyone else was used to it, so used to it that they didn't even apologise... Why did it happen!?!? and it happenned more than once, this occassion was more violent than usual.

Also, there is a new passageway being constructed at Kings Cross, a deep level one, do you have any clues as to where the hell its going?!?

Thanks in advance!
The JLE signalling was a hastily-installed hash of conventional signalling when the intended siganlling system either didn't work or was too expensive (I forget which), hence when the JLE opened it was beset by signalling problems. They've improved, but haven't gone away. the current signalling was only ever intended to be a stop-gap until the line went ATO (which is coming soon), so signals are quite sparse limiting capacity.

The Bakerloo isn't a priority for an upgrade simply because it's not especially important compared to the Northern, Jubilee and Piccadilly lines... not because its in any less need of it.

The incident on the Central Line you describe was almost certainly someone's clothing trapped in the doors: the driver shuts the doors and gets the 'doors closed visual' ('Pilot light') and so starts the train, but as it pulls away the doors with something trapped in them open marginally further causing the Pilot light to go out and the motors to cut out. Its an illusion when it feels like the train is braking, its just that it suddenely stops accelerating which can feel like you're slowing down. On older stocks there's a noticebale 'pop' noise, which is the air-operated linebreakers slamming open as the power to the motors is cut. The linebreakers need to open suddenly and violently to prevent an arc being drawn which could potentially fuse the linebreakers shut.

As the Central is ATO it would probably have repeatedly accelerated quickly (pilot goes out), stopped accelerating (pilot comes back on), accelerated again (and so on) until it got enough momentum up for the pilot to stay on despite something being stuck in the doors. On a manual line a driver, realising something was stuck in the doors, would then accelerate very gingerly to prevent the G-force of acceleration from causing the pilot to be lost (and would probably make a PA along the lines of "Please do not lean against the doors"). This is the advantage of having intelligence driving a train as opposed to a computer, driving technique can be employed whereas the ATO just, essentially, goes 'go quickly' and 'stop quickly'.
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Old September 5th, 2007, 12:22 AM   #1804
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i wonder what will happen to waterloo international they can use it for the long distance trains and international night trains as well

so i hear a eurostar departed from Nord to St Pancreas it seems awsome now and well it seems that the british had done it

also i am wondering though there is a movie is called mr Bean holiday and i am wondering where is bean is going and what is the beach of the vacations and what rail and road routes did he use to get there

i want to see the movie but what do you think tubeman about the movie
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Old September 5th, 2007, 12:50 AM   #1805
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Mr Bean is a spaz (although I like Rowan Atkinson as Blackadder)

Waterloo International platforms will probably be used for longer-distance SWT services to Portsmouth, Bournemouth, Southampton etc

Yes the first full Eurostar run from GDN in Paris to St Pancras via the CTRL arrived today, a great moment in railway history
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Old September 6th, 2007, 12:24 AM   #1806
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Quote:
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i wonder what will happen to waterloo international they can use it for the long distance trains and international night trains as well
http://www.alwaystouchout.com/project/99
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A report by Arup for the Department for Transport into the future of Waterloo International station after Eurostar vacates it in favour of St Pancras in 2007 has recommended that it be retained for rail use. The report highlights a wide number of possible rail uses for the station, including use by SWT Windsor or Main line trains, and use for diversions during the construction of Crossrail and Thameslink 2000.
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Old September 6th, 2007, 06:42 PM   #1807
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How are the A and C Stocks doing there?

Tell me, how well are the A and C Stocks faring over there?
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Old September 6th, 2007, 09:15 PM   #1808
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Tell me, how well are the A and C Stocks faring over there?
A bit battered & bruised, but still struggling on! I reckon on it being another 15 years before the last C Stock runs, making them over 50 years old when they go... The A Stocks will go first, but even then with the demise of Metronet I wouldn't be surprised if we're still waiting for the first S Stock to run in 2012.

Spare a thought for the ex-LT 1938 stocks still serving the Isle of Wight: nearly 70 years old!

[IMG]http://i6.************/4xpv3lw.jpg[/IMG]
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Old September 7th, 2007, 07:00 PM   #1809
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but still struggling on!
Really? Struggling, because I've been imagining their break-downs to be pretty non-existant? I mean, for example, I can't imagine the thundering speed of the A stock (when on their express runs) ever having diminished since the early 80s . . .
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Spare a thought for the ex-LT 1938 stocks still serving the Isle of Wight: nearly 70 years old!

[IMG]http://i6.************/4xpv3lw.jpg[/IMG]
I do (have been for the past several years)! I wonder how the operators of the fleet protect them from salt corrosion. It's really special that some of that adorable fleet spend their golden years seaside after spending decades in the guts of the world's cosmopolis.
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Old September 8th, 2007, 03:23 PM   #1810
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Really? Struggling, because I've been imagining their break-downs to be pretty non-existant? I mean, for example, I can't imagine the thundering speed of the A stock (when on their express runs) ever having diminished since the early 80s . . .
No, you're right... they're doing pretty well considering their age... Its all about the maintenance regime really. C Stocks always have been prone to defects though, some stocks are intrinsically more prone to them.

A60 Stock (Metropolitan Line), 1960



C Stock (Circle, Hammersmith & City and Edgware Rd-Wimbledon), 1969 & 1977



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I do (have been for the past several years)! I wonder how the operators of the fleet protect them from salt corrosion. It's really special that some of that adorable fleet spend their golden years seaside after spending decades in the guts of the world's cosmopolis.
That's a very romantic way of looking at it

I wonder how long they're going to battle on for? Maintenance / parts must be a bit of a nightmare. They must surely be the oldest trains in normal passenger service in the UK.
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Old September 10th, 2007, 02:04 AM   #1811
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That's a very romantic way of looking at it
Awww, thank you, coz I remember over time an endless stream of couple upon couple snuggling up so adorably in those row seats at the car ends -- I'm fond of that fleet for other reasons too.
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Old September 15th, 2007, 01:44 AM   #1812
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*ahem* second page? Unheard of!!!
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Old September 17th, 2007, 02:13 PM   #1813
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I've got a couple of questions:

- I think I vaguely remember something about the District possibly taking over the Uxbridge branch of the Piccadilly line. Is this likely to happen?

- Is anything happening with the plan to extend the Metropolitan to Watford Junction over the old BR Croxley branch?
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Old September 17th, 2007, 06:11 PM   #1814
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I've got a couple of questions:

- I think I vaguely remember something about the District possibly taking over the Uxbridge branch of the Piccadilly line. Is this likely to happen?

- Is anything happening with the plan to extend the Metropolitan to Watford Junction over the old BR Croxley branch?
- District to Uxbridge (and possibly in turn Piccadilly to Ealing Broadway) is fairly likely at some point, but the main stumbling block is that years of track replacement / reballasting have raised the rail level reducing clearances under bridges. The Surface stock still physically fit under the bridges (ask any District driver who has ever taken a wrong signal at Hanger Lane Junction... It does happen!), but are limited to 5mph 'just in case'.

- Its still pending, frustratingly. 200m of track is all that's required to link the Met Watford branch and the old Croxley Green Branch and thus give the Met Line access into the heart of Watford. The Croxley Green branch, although only ever single track, was engineered for double track so its simply a case of building the 200m of new viaduct, reinstating the track and signals, and building new platforms at Watford West (and a new station at Ascot Road, replacing Croxley Green). Watford Stadium would remain closed, as that plaform was built on the never-used trackbed for the second track so would need to be demolished.
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Old September 17th, 2007, 06:46 PM   #1815
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Does this TfL Uxbridge plan to have District-line service exist simply to overcome the Piccadilly fleet from being short to meet the Rayners Lane to Uxbridge platform heights?
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Old September 17th, 2007, 06:52 PM   #1816
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Would the District line have enough trains to go to Uxbridge? Ealing Broadway is a rather short branch compared and already has low frequency as it is..
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Old September 17th, 2007, 08:08 PM   #1817
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Does this TfL Uxbridge plan to have District-line service exist simply to overcome the Piccadilly fleet from being short to meet the Rayners Lane to Uxbridge platform heights?
The platform heights are sort of in between Tube and Surface stock heights (step down to Tube, step up to Surface) so reverting the route to District Line (which it was until the 1930's) wouldn't solve the height difference issue. A good example of this headache is Ealing Common, whose platforms are used routinely by both stocks. The step up to District Line trains is immense.

The fleet issue is probably academic, as I presume the S Stock and the replacements for the 1973 stocks will be in before the branch switches to SSR.
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Old September 17th, 2007, 08:11 PM   #1818
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Would the District line have enough trains to go to Uxbridge? Ealing Broadway is a rather short branch compared and already has low frequency as it is..
Not yet, as I mention in my previous post I presume it hinges on the provision of S Stocks. That being said in my opinion the District runs too many trains east of Barking (all Richmond and Wimbledon trains through the city terminate at Upminster), leading to a load of empty trains getting vandalised by the scummy chavs in Dagenham. If the Wimbledon trains terminated at Barking that would free up sufficient stock to run an Uxbridge service.
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Old September 18th, 2007, 12:00 AM   #1819
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Acton Town - Rayners Lane - Uxbridge i already a lightly used section of the Piccadilly.
I understand that the Picc will need extra trains for Heathrow T5, but sending the District to Uxbridge seems wrong. The travel time from the Uxbridge Branch to Central London using the Piccadilly is already quite long, making many trips, even to stations like Leicester Square (on the Picc) faster via the Metropolitan. Replacing it with the District line - which would result in extra stops between Acton and Hammersmith - would make this service even more unattractive for them.

Since the Metropolitan is probably going to be running 10 tph along the Uxbridge branch, I could see TfL just cutting back the
Picc. to Rayner's entirely, provided that station can handle 6tph reversing plus 10 through-trains.
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Old September 18th, 2007, 03:34 PM   #1820
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Was on the Metropolitan line last week. I thought it was great - is it just some of the trains that are 60's? Cos the one i was on was very nice! It seemed very wide too.
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