daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old September 25th, 2007, 12:51 AM   #1841
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3272

Quote:
Originally Posted by Songoten2554 View Post
oh but isn't the Paddington station where the first section of the london underground was built i mean thats where is very historical i think?

oh but i heard that Connect people that work at the airport can use and its cheaper i think?
Yeah the first section of metro in the world started in Paddington terminus (the Hammersmith & City line platforms).

Connect is used by staff because it links areas where a lot of the staff live with the airport... A very large proportion of people employed at Heathrow are people from the Indian community of Ealing and Hillingdon Boroughs (e.g. Southall, Hayes, Hanwell etc).
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old September 25th, 2007, 12:55 AM   #1842
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3272

Quote:
Originally Posted by Songoten2554 View Post
i also have seen some pics of the Dawlish station and such it seems nice that its a resort gateway station its next to the beach great for surfing and swiming in the ocean
Yes the South-west of England is beautiful: great beaches, good surfing and beautiful scenery...

A 1980's view of the main line between Exeter and Plymouth near Dawlish;

Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 25th, 2007, 03:06 AM   #1843
Songoten2554
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Miami Florida
Posts: 1,063
Likes (Received): 87

very nice very beautiful i mean yeah the scenery really brings it to like a picture of a drawing very nice
Songoten2554 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 25th, 2007, 03:20 AM   #1844
samsonyuen
SSLL
 
samsonyuen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Canary Wharf > CityPlace
Posts: 8,350
Likes (Received): 314

I like the Connect, it's only a little slower than the Express, but a lot cheaper. Though it does take you to Paddington, which isn't the most convenient location.

Do the Picadilly trains alternate between going to T4 and T5 (every other train)?
samsonyuen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 25th, 2007, 10:33 AM   #1845
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3272

Quote:
Originally Posted by samsonyuen View Post
I like the Connect, it's only a little slower than the Express, but a lot cheaper. Though it does take you to Paddington, which isn't the most convenient location.

Do the Picadilly trains alternate between going to T4 and T5 (every other train)?
They will, yes... Which isn't ideal. I've always said the current loop should have been expanded wider to serve T5, so then all trains would go to all terminals. The set-up we're going to end up with will be downright confusing... and if you're a tourist who accidentally ends up at T5 terminus instead of going to T4, you'd have to go back 2 stops to Hatton Cross, change, and try again.
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 25th, 2007, 06:12 PM   #1846
iampuking
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,414
Likes (Received): 43

Tubeman, why were the Victoria line terminus' at Brixton and Walthamstow designed with the crossover BEFORE the station, instead of after. Doesn't it increase dwell times as there are more conflicting passenger movements etc. And isn't a terminus design like the DLR at Bank a better approach for higher tph?
iampuking no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 26th, 2007, 02:19 AM   #1847
iampuking
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,414
Likes (Received): 43

Another question (I know, I know )

Why do some metros build the tracks in one large tunnel which houses both trains, rather than two small ones like in London and ex-USSR cities?
iampuking no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 27th, 2007, 08:32 PM   #1848
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3272

Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Tubeman, why were the Victoria line terminus' at Brixton and Walthamstow designed with the crossover BEFORE the station, instead of after. Doesn't it increase dwell times as there are more conflicting passenger movements etc. And isn't a terminus design like the DLR at Bank a better approach for higher tph?
Brixton was certainly never intended to be a terminus: it was a 'temporary' terminus as the line grew southwards (like Warren Street and Victoria), but has ended up being 'it' sadly. That being said, Walthamstow has the same layout, and I think it was supposed to be the northern extent of the line.

We have the same problem at Elephant & Castle: a train can be held awaiting depature from the 'Southbound' platform as a terminating train crosses its path into the 'Northbound', or a train routed into the 'Northbound' can be held waiting for another train to depart the 'Southbound'. All three termini are simply pairs of platforms with a diamond crossover before the platforms.

The trouble with trains crossing over beyond the platforms is that we must have assurance the train is empty before it proceeds out of service beyond the platforms, in short if Brixton / Walthamstow / Elephant & Castle had crossovers beyond the platforms then each train would need to be checked and detrained car by car and closed on 'Porter buttons'. This would take several minutes and delay the service when there are trains every 2 minutes. This came about after an incident at Liverpool Street sidings (Central Line) about 8 years ago when a passenger didn't heed the driver's announcements that the train was terminating, but then panicked as it proceeded into the sidings to reverse and fell between the cars and died. Typical risk-based kneejerk if you ask me: one idiot kills himself and we have to change all our procedures.

The current regime at the aforementioned termini involves 'Stepping back' most of the day: a train comes in, the driver steps off and presses the 'Rear cab clear' plunger, and then the next driver gets in the other cab and proceeds. The driver who has just got off normally picks up the train behind or the train behind that. This means that theoretically a train can be in and out in about a minute, whereas if you're relying on the same driver to bring a train in, shut down, change ends, then open up again its a minumum of 4 minutes.

What would be ideal for all three termini is a terminal loop like the Heathrow Loop: This could entail new stations at Camberwell, Herne Hill and Wood Street beyond Elephant, Brixton and Walthamstow respectively. The only slight drawback is that without any idle time at termini there is no scope for making up lost time.
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 27th, 2007, 09:01 PM   #1849
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3272

Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Another question (I know, I know )

Why do some metros build the tracks in one large tunnel which houses both trains, rather than two small ones like in London and ex-USSR cities?
Tunnelling technique I presume: many older world metros are cut & cover built under major roads: Paris and New York both had the advantage of wide, straight roads which could be relatively easily dug up. Although the original SSR lines in London used the same technique, it was ridiculously disruptive and so the deep bored 'Tube' found favour. As the profile is circular, it made sense to dig single-track tunnels and make the trains fit the tunnels. To bore a 'Tube' tunnel big enough to accommodate double track is wasteful as its unavoidable that there would be a lot of empty space above the trains and a lot of infill below the track, in short millions of tons of earth would be extracted for essentially nothing. The bigger bore tunnels would have less structural integrity and need thicker cast iron segments, so in addition to vastly higher amounts of spoil much more iron would be required.

The single track tunnels are far more efficient therefore (and cheaper).
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 28th, 2007, 11:14 PM   #1850
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Yes the South-west of England is beautiful: great beaches, good surfing and beautiful scenery...

A 1980's view of the main line between Exeter and Plymouth near Dawlish;

I was amazed that nobody bothered trespassing onto the line by jumping its stone wall.....I was amazed that I myself didn't
(I was 10 years old, and it was my first {day-away-return} trip without any grown-up....)
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 30th, 2007, 02:55 AM   #1851
Martin S
Registered User
 
Martin S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 10,235
Likes (Received): 3156

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Tunnelling technique I presume: many older world metros are cut & cover built under major roads: Paris and New York both had the advantage of wide, straight roads which could be relatively easily dug up. Although the original SSR lines in London used the same technique, it was ridiculously disruptive and so the deep bored 'Tube' found favour. As the profile is circular, it made sense to dig single-track tunnels and make the trains fit the tunnels. To bore a 'Tube' tunnel big enough to accommodate double track is wasteful as its unavoidable that there would be a lot of empty space above the trains and a lot of infill below the track, in short millions of tons of earth would be extracted for essentially nothing. The bigger bore tunnels would have less structural integrity and need thicker cast iron segments, so in addition to vastly higher amounts of spoil much more iron would be required.

The single track tunnels are far more efficient therefore (and cheaper).
Double track bored rail tunnels probably only made sense in the steam age when the additional air volume could be used to help dissipate the steam and prevent choking the passengers.
__________________
Martin S no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2007, 05:18 PM   #1852
juanico
Daily Commuter
 
juanico's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Paris
Posts: 1,116
Likes (Received): 8

I don't know if it has been asked before, but do Metropolitan and Piccadilly share the same tracks between Rayners Lane and Uxbridge? Same question for District and Hammersmith&City between Aldgate East and Barking.
juanico no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2007, 06:10 PM   #1853
iampuking
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,414
Likes (Received): 43

Yes and yes.
iampuking no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2007, 06:14 PM   #1854
sweek
Registered User
 
sweek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London NW1
Posts: 1,636
Likes (Received): 1

Do you know anything about the new maps that should be coming out very soon? I wonder how it will be showing the under construction parts of the East London Line, mostly.

Nice to know Hampstead Heath is moved back into Zone 2, too!
sweek no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2007, 12:03 AM   #1855
juanico
Daily Commuter
 
juanico's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Paris
Posts: 1,116
Likes (Received): 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Yes and yes.
Thanks. Are there any other similar cases on the Tube?
juanico no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2007, 12:26 AM   #1856
iampuking
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,414
Likes (Received): 43

Quote:
Originally Posted by juanico View Post
Thanks. Are there any other similar cases on the Tube?
Most of the SSL (Sub Surface lines), the Bakerloo shares track with National Rail between Queen's Park and Harrow & Wealdstone, the District shares track with National Rail between Gunnersbury and Richmond, the Piccadilly and District share tracks for a short section between Acton Town and Ealing Common and the Metropolitan shares tracks with National Rail between Harrow-on-the-Hill and Amersham.

If you look on a Tube map, pretty much everywhere where two lines are right beside each other with no white space in between them is where tracks are shared.
iampuking no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2007, 12:54 AM   #1857
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3272

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweek View Post
Do you know anything about the new maps that should be coming out very soon? I wonder how it will be showing the under construction parts of the East London Line, mostly.

Nice to know Hampstead Heath is moved back into Zone 2, too!
I've seen no sneak preview unfortunately, and I don't know how much will be shown at the moment.

By rights I'd have thought the 4 Silverlink routes should appear (North London line, West London Line, Gospel Oak to Barking and Watford Jcn to Euston) with the ELL shaded closed (its closing later this year for 2 years) and the new sections depicted as under construction (will they go so far as to include all of the forthcoming stations down to West Croydon and Crystal Palace though?). Heathrow T5 should also appear (open 2008) and Stratford Intl to Canning Town should be shown as under construction for the DLR. Potentially a lot going on, but I'm unsure if it'll all appear in one go.
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2007, 01:00 AM   #1858
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3272

Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Most of the SSL (Sub Surface lines), the Bakerloo shares track with National Rail between Queen's Park and Harrow & Wealdstone, the District shares track with National Rail between Gunnersbury and Richmond, the Piccadilly and District share tracks for a short section between Acton Town and Ealing Common and the Metropolitan shares tracks with National Rail between Harrow-on-the-Hill and Amersham.

If you look on a Tube map, pretty much everywhere where two lines are right beside each other with no white space in between them is where tracks are shared.

To add slightly to this, East Putney to Wimbledon Park (District Line) is used by Southwest Trains for empty stock movements (and sometimes for passenger services during engineering work / disruption) and the Metropolitan and Jubilee lines are interchangeable between Finchley Road and Wembley Park, as are the District and Piccadilly Lines between Barons Court and Acton Town (i.e. Jubilee trains can be routed over what are normally Metropolitan Line tracks and vice versa, ditto District / Picc). This does happen on occasion due to 'one unders' or signal failures, its fairly common between Acton Town and Barons Court (more often Picc over District than vice versa).
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2007, 04:21 PM   #1859
cle
Registered User
 
cle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,096
Likes (Received): 524

They say Turnham Green is a popular spot to top yourself, with platforms to fast Piccadilly line services whizzing through!
cle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2007, 10:17 PM   #1860
iampuking
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,414
Likes (Received): 43

Lancaster Gate has the highest suicide rate apparently... It's a relatively quiet station and the Central line comes fastest into the stations!
iampuking no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
london, railways, tube

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium