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Old October 8th, 2007, 12:33 AM   #1881
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Isn't that area round Parsons Green sidings 'safeguarded' for the Crossrail 2 route? I would of thought that's where the tunnel portals would be...
Yes I think you're right... Oh well
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Old October 8th, 2007, 03:11 AM   #1882
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Originally Posted by 1LONDONER View Post
Also do v.i.p/blind transport users get a special oyster card that allows them to go through any barrier, as in even though the red cross is facing them rather then the yellow arrow.
Well I am partially sighted and have never heard of that.
We do get a Freedom Pass which is similar to the pass that pensioners get. It is fantastic.

The only downside is that when we go through the gates it flashes the screen on the other side. This alerts any lurking ticket inspectors that I am using a special pass - which could be dodgy in some way. Because I do not look disabled I have often been stopped and had my ticket checked.
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Old October 8th, 2007, 08:49 PM   #1883
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Tubeman, iampuking, either of you have any diagrams to illustrate what your talking about, if u dnt mind? Just that the 'other tunel' seemed to go to the left as oppose to the right which would of been inbetween the two main tunnels.

And Acemcbuller, I get it aswell, I have a student Oystercard and inspectors stop me.
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Old October 8th, 2007, 10:40 PM   #1884
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Originally Posted by 1LONDONER View Post
Tubeman, iampuking, either of you have any diagrams to illustrate what your talking about, if u dnt mind? Just that the 'other tunel' seemed to go to the left as oppose to the right which would of been inbetween the two main tunnels.
I looked at the track diagram of Wood Green. There are no left branches from the eastbound track. It looks like this

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Old October 9th, 2007, 12:37 AM   #1885
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Left can be right... depending on which direction you were facing at the time.
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Old October 13th, 2007, 11:47 PM   #1886
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Tubeman some more questions

-The uplighters on the Morden extension, are they the originals?

Here is an example:

image hosted on flickr


-On the Central line, when you travel between the stations in the central section, you can hear the motors "tuning" down and back up again even when there isn't a train close in front, is it because of the large amount of gradients on the line? You can clearly see the gradients if you watch down the tunnels when a train is coming, since the central line is so straight!

-Is a tph higher than 30 possible on the Underground, and how come the Jubilee is planned for a higher tph than the Central line? Could the design of the stations be a factor? As the older stations don't have escalators at grade with the platforms so there are narrow walkways etc.
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Old October 13th, 2007, 11:56 PM   #1887
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Have you ever seen the pre-new horrible Hounslow West staiton platforms? I mean the old ones?

I have my parents used to work there (Hounslow West) and I had the privelege to go all around the staiton (years years back). Once a DSM cam around so I hid in a closet (I was about 3 I think).
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Old October 14th, 2007, 01:06 AM   #1888
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What do you mean? Are you talking about the decor of Hounslow West tube station? It's an ugly 70s station...
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Old October 14th, 2007, 01:19 AM   #1889
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This has probably been answered before, but why does the Central line swap to right-side driving between East Acton and Shepherd's Bush? I know the line used to terminate there, but why did they not straighten it out when the line was extended? On a similar note, is the eastern swapover grade-separated like the western end? It's underground so I can't see what's going on...
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Old October 14th, 2007, 12:37 PM   #1890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Tubeman some more questions

-The uplighters on the Morden extension, are they the originals?

Here is an example:

image hosted on flickr


-On the Central line, when you travel between the stations in the central section, you can hear the motors "tuning" down and back up again even when there isn't a train close in front, is it because of the large amount of gradients on the line? You can clearly see the gradients if you watch down the tunnels when a train is coming, since the central line is so straight!

-Is a tph higher than 30 possible on the Underground, and how come the Jubilee is planned for a higher tph than the Central line? Could the design of the stations be a factor? As the older stations don't have escalators at grade with the platforms so there are narrow walkways etc.
Re: Uplighters... I don't know for sure... they look pretty contemporary and I don't recall seeing them at those stations when I used them prior to their refurb (I've been in and out of most of them at some point but not since their refurb)

Re: Central Line: As I've mentioned before, there is no 'intelligence' behind ATO... A train will adhere to whatever speed applies to that stretch of line, and as you rightly surmise if that's an uphill gradient you might find the motors going on and off as the train tries to maintain a particular speed. However, on the more or less dead straight section between Shepherd's Bush and Chancery lane there generally aren't many speed restrictions: the trains go as fast as they can before having to stop at the next station. The 'hump' profile of the stations, which is very pronounced, aids acceleration and deceleration (downhill out of stations, uphill approaching). I suspect if you are on this section and the motors start to cut in and out, you may well be approaching the train in front.

Re: tph... I'm sure that Moscow's 40tph is possible on LU, but you get to a point where tph starts to become a hindrance with trains stop-starting and lots of trains stuck in tunnels in the event of a one-under etc. If you observe the Central or Vic lines after an incident as the trains starts coming through, you'll see a rate of easily 40tph as they pass through a station one after the other (although the Controller would normally aim to hold trains in platforms behind a delay, so they shouldn't all be stuck in tunnels). Personally I think 30 tph (i.e. one every 2 minutes) is the optimum... you might find that the difference between the Central and Jubilee lines is more to do with stock availability or line georgraphy.
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Old October 14th, 2007, 12:51 PM   #1891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DFM View Post
Have you ever seen the pre-new horrible Hounslow West staiton platforms? I mean the old ones?

I have my parents used to work there (Hounslow West) and I had the privelege to go all around the staiton (years years back). Once a DSM cam around so I hid in a closet (I was about 3 I think).
They closed 2 years before I was born, so I never saw them myself. To explain to those who don't know: Hounslow West (originally Hounslow Barracks) was the western terminus of the District Railway's branch from Acton Town in 1884. When the Heathrow extension was opened (at first to Hatton Cross in 1975), the ground-level terminus at Hounslow West had to be abandoned in favour of a new subterranean through station, although the station building was retained (so this is 1930's vintage).

Here is a map I found:



Here's a photo from 1957

A good little page on Answers.com
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Old October 14th, 2007, 01:09 PM   #1892
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This has probably been answered before, but why does the Central line swap to right-side driving between East Acton and Shepherd's Bush? I know the line used to terminate there, but why did they not straighten it out when the line was extended? On a similar note, is the eastern swapover grade-separated like the western end? It's underground so I can't see what's going on...
I'm not 100% sure, but it's partly to do with the terminal loop extension from Shepherd's Bush to serve Wood Lane. Shepherd's Bush was the original 1900 terminus, with a layout pretty much as you'd see at stations like Elephant & Castle (Bakerloo) or Brixton with 2 terminal platforms. In 1908 a terminal loop was built to Wood Lane, and for some reason the two roads crossed each other immediately west of Shepherd's Bush such that trains travelled anticlockwise around the loop instead of the logical clockwise. My explanation is that this arrangement meant that the proposed extension 'straight on' from Shepherd's Bush under Goldhawk and Bath Roads to Turnham Green (and thence to Richmond) could be accommodated with a grade-separated junction off the new loop. Sadly this extension never materialised, and the loop with its torturous curves which was only ever built to serve the White City exhibition centre ended up becoming part of the 'main line' when the line was further extended off the loop via White City to West Ruislip in 1948.

As the Westbound and Eastbound roads swapped over at Shepherd's Bush as part of this arrangement, they had to be swapped back to restore standard 'driving on the left' working, I guess the flyover next to Wormwood Scrubs prison was the easiest opportunity to do so. This section actually used to be 4-track, and the flyover on the Central line allowed for quite a clever little grade-separated junction with the parallel freight line (which came off the West London Line roughly where the Hammersmith & city line viduct crossed and ran parallel to a point west of North Acton, where it joined the GWR Birmingham 'main line' which still remains as a little used single-track backwater today.
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Old October 14th, 2007, 01:34 PM   #1893
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From my book... This should help!

[IMG]http://i23.************/2u9kggy.jpg[/IMG]
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Old October 14th, 2007, 06:26 PM   #1894
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Why are some platforms on the Northern line unusually wide e.g. Angel?

Do TfL make interest on prepay loaded on to someone's oystercard?
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Old October 14th, 2007, 07:08 PM   #1895
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Originally Posted by sarflonlad View Post
Why are some platforms on the Northern line unusually wide e.g. Angel?

Do TfL make interest on prepay loaded on to someone's oystercard?
Angel and Euston (Bank Branch) southbound platform tunnels both originally housed the entire station, i.e. both southbound and northbound roads plus a central island platform (exactly the same layout as Clapham North and Clapham Common stations today). Both were redeveloped and the northbound line diverted through a new tunnel to serve a new platform, with the southbound being left with an unusually wide platform.

Clapham Common: 'before'

image hosted on flickr


Angel: 'after'

[IMG]http://i23.************/ngdoj8.jpg[/IMG]
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Old October 14th, 2007, 07:10 PM   #1896
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Re: interest off Oyster prepay... I'd have thought so, yes!
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Old October 14th, 2007, 11:26 PM   #1897
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Re: Uplighters... I don't know for sure... they look pretty contemporary and I don't recall seeing them at those stations when I used them prior to their refurb (I've been in and out of most of them at some point but not since their refurb)
I'm guessing they were designed as replicas. The original stations along the Mordern extension probably had similar types to Turnpike lane station (see below) on the Piccadilly, but were ripped out after the King's Cross fire when the escalators were replaced with metal ones. Do you think i'm right?

Turnpike lane uplighters:

image hosted on flickr


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Re: Central Line: As I've mentioned before, there is no 'intelligence' behind ATO... A train will adhere to whatever speed applies to that stretch of line, and as you rightly surmise if that's an uphill gradient you might find the motors going on and off as the train tries to maintain a particular speed. However, on the more or less dead straight section between Shepherd's Bush and Chancery lane there generally aren't many speed restrictions: the trains go as fast as they can before having to stop at the next station. The 'hump' profile of the stations, which is very pronounced, aids acceleration and deceleration (downhill out of stations, uphill approaching). I suspect if you are on this section and the motors start to cut in and out, you may well be approaching the train in front.
I'm pretty sure there weren't trains close in front as I arrived at the platform when the train in front had just left, the one I got on was 2 minutes behind. But thanks for your answer! Do you know what speed the Central line reaches between stations...? Sorry if I asked this before...

I'm also wondering if there are gradients that aren't at the edge of the platforms but well between the stations, I have to use the Northern line's Bank branch at times and i've noticed there are several 'dips' well between the stations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Re: tph... I'm sure that Moscow's 40tph is possible on LU, but you get to a point where tph starts to become a hindrance with trains stop-starting and lots of trains stuck in tunnels in the event of a one-under etc. If you observe the Central or Vic lines after an incident as the trains starts coming through, you'll see a rate of easily 40tph as they pass through a station one after the other (although the Controller would normally aim to hold trains in platforms behind a delay, so they shouldn't all be stuck in tunnels). Personally I think 30 tph (i.e. one every 2 minutes) is the optimum... you might find that the difference between the Central and Jubilee lines is more to do with stock availability or line georgraphy.
I asked a Moscow Metro 'expert' (i think you can guess who) and said that the 36tph is the maximum operating frequencies there these days... Are you sure that the size of stations isn't factored? At rush hour it usually takes a while for the platforms to clear, especially since nearly all the passengers have to squeeze through a narrow stair well, as well as avoiding all the passengers waiting on the platforms! I would have thought that the Jubilee line stations could take more, all stations have the bottom of the escalators at grade with the platforms, and the busiest on the JLE have platform doors as i'm sure you're aware of.
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Old October 15th, 2007, 04:00 PM   #1898
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I have to use the Northern line's Bank branch at times and i've noticed there are several 'dips' well between the stations.
Partly to dive under things such as the Thames and other underground lines or services.
I don't know how detailed they are but you could try looking at the simulators: http://bve-routes.com/search.php?sea...round&lang=bri

As an aside I came across this discussion about joining up lines around Cannon Street, Moorgate and Bank.

Last edited by Acemcbuller; October 15th, 2007 at 11:16 PM.
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Old October 15th, 2007, 08:29 PM   #1899
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Partly to dive under things such as the Thames and other underground lines or services.
I don't know how detailed they are but you could try looking at the simulators: http://bve-routes.com/search.php?sea...round&lang=bri

As an aside I came across this discussion about joining up lines around Cannon Street, Moorgate and Bank.
The most pronounced 'dips' on the Northern Line are approaching King's Cross SB and between Angel and King's Cross NB and SB. I am of the understanding that the pronounced 'dip' halfway between Angel and King's Cross is in fact a short section of level track on an otherwise steep gradient under Pentonville Road, the rollercoaster-like feeling of going down a 'dip' is when you come off level and return to the gradient. Apparently way back in the C&SLR days there was a signal box located here, halfway between the stations... although my recollection from driving on the line is that there was nothing lineside to suggest this. You don't notice the southbound section so much because you're going so much slower (struggling up a 1/30 gradient at 30mph... on the downhill northbound section I'd easily get 50mph+ out of a '72 Stock).

Approaching King's Cross SB is very odd... You come out of Euston on what feels like the level, then as King's Cross comes into sight you suddenly dive sharply downwards before climbing upwards again just before hitting the platform. It must be to avoid something... I know the Fleet River flows through King's Cross so it might be passing under the subterranean river.
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Old October 15th, 2007, 08:33 PM   #1900
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Thanks a lot for that answer, very informative!

Could the dip between Euston and King's Cross be due to the Piccadilly line? It is situated above the Northern there.
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