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Old November 9th, 2007, 12:50 AM   #1961
sarflonlad
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Will new tube stock, particularly SSL stock in particular, line up to the platform edges ensuring there's no step e.g. for wheelchair uses? Earls court had all that work carried out for lift access but there's still considerable step between the platform and train.
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Old November 9th, 2007, 04:01 AM   #1962
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The infracos will probably make a raised section, like Waterloo on the W&C line or London Bridge on the Northern...
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Old November 9th, 2007, 04:54 AM   #1963
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S Stock will be tube platform height. therefore all the platforms will be at odd heights still, though some would be level, one guesses. IIRC, they will change the rail height (or adjust the platform) at the disabled friendly stations, though the stations that share with NR (far end of the Met) or (from Sunday) overground (Richmond branch of District) will be even messier.

I'm sure most of the platforms are higher than where the train will be - I can't imagine dips, so it'll be track raising to get level access.
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Old November 9th, 2007, 05:01 AM   #1964
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I think you'll find the train is almost always higher than the platform, not the other way round.

And why an earth would they make the S Stock tube platform height when most of the stations are much higher?

This is the raised section that i'm on about:

image hosted on flickr
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Old November 9th, 2007, 05:03 PM   #1965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
S Stock will be tube platform height.
Rubbish! They're off-the-shelf Bombardier Electrostar shells and bogies with more doors... How do you work out that we'd order a fleet of hundreds of trains for the Subsurface railway with Tube height car floors?
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Old November 9th, 2007, 10:55 PM   #1966
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According to PRJB on District Dave's forum the S Stock is going to be low floor, there is quite a lengthy bit on it's development.
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Old November 10th, 2007, 01:08 AM   #1967
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One of the problems is that the platforms are not all the same heights.
The platforms that have to serve both tube and surface stock (or have in the past) are particularly problematic.
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Old November 10th, 2007, 07:02 PM   #1968
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Hi Tubeman, does the Met line share the same tracks with mainline services between Amersham and Moor Park?
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Old November 10th, 2007, 08:11 PM   #1969
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Hi Tubeman, does the Met line share the same tracks with mainline services between Amersham and Moor Park?
I can answer that... Yes it does. The express service between Harrow-on-the-Hill and Moor Park also shares track with NR
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Old November 10th, 2007, 11:31 PM   #1970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lasdun View Post
According to PRJB on District Dave's forum the S Stock is going to be low floor, there is quite a lengthy bit on it's development.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
I can answer that... Yes it does. The express service between Harrow-on-the-Hill and Moor Park also shares track with NR
Silverlink run (for a few hours more, then it will be London Overground, which is National Rail, just franchised by TfL, rather than the DfT - the tracks that don't have Underground trains running regularly - I'm ignoring the emergency route from Queens Park to Kilburn High Road - will remain in the control of Network Rail) on LU metals between Richmond and just north of Gunnersbury and just north of Queens Park to Harrow & Wealdstone. South West Trains can run on the Wimbledon branch of the district to Putney, as a diversionary route - a leftover from the recent (13 years ago) purchase of the tracks for £1 of the very-soon-to-be-split-up BR (the Waterloo & City was similarly brought for £1 on the same day).
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Old November 11th, 2007, 11:59 AM   #1971
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Quote:
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According to PRJB on District Dave's forum the S Stock is going to be low floor, there is quite a lengthy bit on it's development.
I can't find it, can you post the text or a link.

The S Stock might have lower floors than current Subsurface stocks to avoid the step-up, but the notion that they're going to have Tube-height floors is ridiculous. What is the logic of engineering a step-down?
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Old November 11th, 2007, 12:10 PM   #1972
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Quote:
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Silverlink run (for a few hours more, then it will be London Overground, which is National Rail, just franchised by TfL, rather than the DfT - the tracks that don't have Underground trains running regularly - I'm ignoring the emergency route from Queens Park to Kilburn High Road - will remain in the control of Network Rail) on LU metals between Richmond and just north of Gunnersbury and just north of Queens Park to Harrow & Wealdstone. South West Trains can run on the Wimbledon branch of the district to Putney, as a diversionary route - a leftover from the recent (13 years ago) purchase of the tracks for £1 of the very-soon-to-be-split-up BR (the Waterloo & City was similarly brought for £1 on the same day).
All of the LOROL routes are going to remain NR. Kew Gardens and Gunnersbury and the stations between Queen's Park and Harrow & Wealdstone (excluding Willesden Junction) are being transferred to LU, but the metals remain part of the NR network. The train service formerly provided by Silverlink (and the remaining stations) will be operated under the TFL umbrella by Hong Kong's MTR, but this will in reality be like any other TOC operating on the NR network.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 12:18 PM   #1973
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Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
I can answer that... Yes it does. The express service between Harrow-on-the-Hill and Moor Park also shares track with NR
Unusually it's a case of NR running over LU metals whereas the norm is the other way around. NR has it's own segregated tracks south of Harrow-on-the-Hill, but all the way from there to a point beyond Amersham all the metals are LU owned, including the 4-track section between Harrow and Watford south junction.

Chiltern is unique in that they have to train their drivers on LU procedures... with the only other example of a NR TOC running over LU metals (SWT between East Putney and Wimbledon) it was stipulated that NR operating procedures would remain when LU bought the track off NR.

Therefore the East Putney to Wimbledon section has the very odd set-up where the track and stations are LU owned but NR operating procedures apply and the signalling is controlled by NR (much to the frustration of District line control when SWT decide to divert half their service down the branch at a whim).
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Old November 11th, 2007, 06:13 PM   #1974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Unusually it's a case of NR running over LU metals whereas the norm is the other way around. NR has it's own segregated tracks south of Harrow-on-the-Hill, but all the way from there to a point beyond Amersham all the metals are LU owned, including the 4-track section between Harrow and Watford south junction.

Chiltern is unique in that they have to train their drivers on LU procedures... with the only other example of a NR TOC running over LU metals (SWT between East Putney and Wimbledon) it was stipulated that NR operating procedures would remain when LU bought the track off NR.

Therefore the East Putney to Wimbledon section has the very odd set-up where the track and stations are LU owned but NR operating procedures apply and the signalling is controlled by NR (much to the frustration of District line control when SWT decide to divert half their service down the branch at a whim).
The Met going to Amersham to me seems silly. Why not hand it over to Chiltern and have LU running the Watford and Uxbridge branches... After all the Met doesn't act like a metro service along most of the line anyway.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 06:41 PM   #1975
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i guess all the platforms sometimes don't match with each other because well i am thinking that the London Underground was one of the First Metro style mode of Transport in the world so i guess in some of the stations they were experimenting with the platforms heights and all that

so i want to know something what was the first Sub Surface route and what was the first Deep Level Route ever made in London

also is anybody planning to travel by eurostar or somewhere else by the new St Pancras International?
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Old November 11th, 2007, 07:29 PM   #1976
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The platforms haven't been left the same as they were since 1863...

The first sub-surface route was made in 1863 it was called "The Metropolitan Railway" it's part of the Circle, Hammersmith & City and Metropolitan lines these days.

The first deep level route is less clear, Brunel's "Thames Tunnel" was opened in 1843, but was not intended for trains, but these days it's used by the East London line (soon to be London Overground). The Tower Subway was opened in 1870 but was designed for a small cable car instead it's now abadoned. The City and South London Railway was opened in 1890 and was the first that was designed specifically for railway trains. The route is now part of the Northern line but it uses tunnels that were expanded in 1923. Only two original stations remain, Clapham Common and Clapham North, they both have narrow island platforms in the middle of a single wide tunnel. Kennington, I believe still has the original surface building, albeit slightly modified in the 20s, the platforms however are radically different.

Many of this can easily be found through a few wikipedia searches...

And yes I am planning to travel on the Eurostar some time next year.

Last edited by iampuking; November 11th, 2007 at 07:56 PM.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 07:49 PM   #1977
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Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
The Met going to Amersham to me seems silly. Why not hand it over to Chiltern and have LU running the Watford and Uxbridge branches... After all the Met doesn't act like a metro service along most of the line anyway.
I agree totally... The Met and NR should be segregated and the Met terminate at Watford and Uxbridge only. It will make it easier for the S Stock seating layout to suit all of the SSR routes too.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 07:51 PM   #1978
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And yes I am planning to travel on the Eurostar some time next year.
I'm going to Brussels in 4 weeks... I can walk to St Pancras in 10 minutes so it's real door-to-door stuff!
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Old November 11th, 2007, 07:52 PM   #1979
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The Met should keep the express tracks between Wembley Park and Harrow-on-the-Hill though, they can go exclusively to Watford. It's no myth that the most simple of lines operate the best, look no further than Paris and Moscow!

What would happen to the Chesham branch though? I can't quite see Chiltern bothering with it.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 07:52 PM   #1980
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I'm going to Brussels in 4 weeks... I can walk to St Pancras in 10 minutes so it's real door-to-door stuff!
You have to give us lot some pics!
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