daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Airports and Aviation

Airports and Aviation » Airports | Photos and Videos



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old April 12th, 2008, 02:30 AM   #361
Rail Claimore
Registered User
 
Rail Claimore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 1,152
Likes (Received): 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
I actually like NWA. They keep the booze flowing!

And at least they're not canceling flights like AA, Delta, and the others.
NWA leaves a lot to be desired domestically speaking. I've flown them quite a lot transpacific and they're not bad there.
Rail Claimore no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old April 12th, 2008, 02:43 AM   #362
Xusein
 
Xusein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 26,176
Likes (Received): 10412

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Flying in the US is like taking a bus. There isn't much expectation from the experience anymore.
Well said.
Xusein no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 13th, 2008, 06:49 AM   #363
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,962
Likes (Received): 18222

The biggest hurdle that US carriers face is the union. In Asia, airlines can fire staff easily to weather a crisis and the pension / medicare costs are manageable. In the US, any change seems to come under intense scrutiny from the union leaders and airlines no longer can control this variable cost when the economy moves for the worse or the other costs increase, but at the same time, ticket prices remain relatively stagnant.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 13th, 2008, 10:27 AM   #364
Magellan
Registered User
 
Magellan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 335
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
After seeing some of the flight reports from Asia I would have to say you're probably right when you make the comparison. Flight reports in China and other Asian seem to include hot towels, warm food and other amenities.

Still when I fly in the U.S. I still really enjoy the experience no matter what happens. I think a lot of people take flying for granted these days and don't appreciate the fact that we can cross the country faster then ever before in relative comfort, with a bathroom, food, drinks, air conditioning along with spectacular views out the window that humans could only dream of 100 years ago. Whenever I see people complaining about flying I wonder what the Wright Brothers would be thinking if they were standing in a line at the airport today.

With all that said I still think there is a lot of room for improvement but I'm not sure how the Asian countries do it so well and so cheaply. Also I'm not too sure how we can pay airline workers more so we can get better service while making flying affordable. I remember being a kid in the 80's and flying and remember getting food and toys from the airline. I remember getting American Airlines air wings which were really cool.
The problem with the US airlines that I have travelled with is that they treat you like cattle, staff are frequently rude, and are ambivalent in the treatment of their customers, whether it is internal or international.

back to the topic; things seem to be getting back to normal at American:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7343969.stm
Magellan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 13th, 2008, 12:09 PM   #365
FM 2258
Registered User
 
FM 2258's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Austin
Posts: 5,438
Likes (Received): 612



Good to see things are back to normal. All this surprises me because I saw a documentary on American Airlines and from what I remember these MD-80's go through a full inspection every four years where the plane is pretty much taken completely apart and parts that are worn out are replaced.

The documentary by CNBC was called "American Airlines: A Week In The Life."

Here are some video clips. The one about the tear down is on the bottom left:
http://www.aweekinthelife.cnbc.com/videoclips.html
FM 2258 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 14th, 2008, 12:35 AM   #366
spongeg
Registered User
 
spongeg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Coquitlam/Rainbow Lake
Posts: 8,039
Likes (Received): 1742

you have to remember flying domestically and international is quite different

from my experience international filights everything id free and included other than alchohol

you get warm towels in the morning, free headphones, papers, blankets etc

when flying domestically you have to pay for headphones and the things you get free on international flights and there isn't really a need for hot towels

but definately flying has lost a lot of its lustre

when i was a kid in the 70's people in coach got slippers and a bag of goodies - now thats mostly for first class it seems
spongeg no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2008, 10:56 PM   #367
eomer
Bring Constantinople back
 
eomer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Val de Marne (Paris)
Posts: 14,005
Likes (Received): 4736

Quote:
Originally Posted by spongeg View Post
you have to remember flying domestically and international is quite different
You are right but when a "domestic flight" take more than 5 hours, it's longer than lot of international flights.
__________________
Cordialement, Kind Regards
Eomer
Look to my coming, at first light, on the fifth day. At dawn, look to the East.
A l'aube du cinquième jour, regardez vers l'est
eomer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2008, 01:15 AM   #368
spongeg
Registered User
 
spongeg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Coquitlam/Rainbow Lake
Posts: 8,039
Likes (Received): 1742

true

those can be pretty crappy - flying vancouver to toronto is long 5-6 hours and you don't get any of the frills
spongeg no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2008, 04:22 AM   #369
hoosier
Registered User
 
hoosier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 2,451
Likes (Received): 63

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
The biggest hurdle that US carriers face is the union. In Asia, airlines can fire staff easily to weather a crisis and the pension / medicare costs are manageable. In the US, any change seems to come under intense scrutiny from the union leaders and airlines no longer can control this variable cost when the economy moves for the worse or the other costs increase, but at the same time, ticket prices remain relatively stagnant.
Most of Asia's population still lives in third-world conditions and under oppressive autocratic governments that enforce the will of corporations over human and labor rights.

Even without unions, American airline companies cannot lower their labor costs to Asia's level.
hoosier no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2008, 08:44 AM   #370
FM 2258
Registered User
 
FM 2258's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Austin
Posts: 5,438
Likes (Received): 612



That makes sense. No wonder Asian airlines can offer full meals on domestic flights. They can pay the pilots little as well as the rest of the service crew. I've grown not to care about food on domestic flights because airports nowadays have some damn good restaurants in them. Just order something to go and bring it on the plane or sit at an airport bar and enjoy some drinks and food while you wait for your next flight.
FM 2258 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2008, 11:03 AM   #371
Rail Claimore
Registered User
 
Rail Claimore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 1,152
Likes (Received): 14

That's also why they can build huge airline terminals in a fraction of the time at a fraction of the cost... well, you get the picture.

That still doesn't fully explain Japan and South Korea though. But when you're constrained for space, megaprojects tend to go through without much debate, environment be damned.
Rail Claimore no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2008, 06:20 PM   #372
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,962
Likes (Received): 18222

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
Most of Asia's population still lives in third-world conditions and under oppressive autocratic governments that enforce the will of corporations over human and labor rights.

Even without unions, American airline companies cannot lower their labor costs to Asia's level.
The likes of Cathay Pacific and Singapore Airlines pay international rates. Many pilots and crew are based in the West, and even mainland Chinese carriers now hire pilots from abroad due to a local talent shortage. These people are not being paid scraps and pennies, yet can still provide full meal service on their short haul flights. The cost structures in this part of the world are far more realistic to market and competitive, making these seemingly standard service features affordable and standard here.

Then there are the notable exceptions - Japan Air and ANA, which operate in the ultra-expensive Japanese market.

Staff are paid according to the prevailing wages in their markets. That may be a fraction of what an American counterpart may cost, but that's the market. For example, 60 cents here can mean $2 elsewhere. In the US, that market wage has been distorted by unions, and is no longer a true supply-and-demand market wage. Here in Asia, ironically the market has a much stronger say on what capitalism's equilibrium should be.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 17th, 2008, 12:18 AM   #373
FM 2258
Registered User
 
FM 2258's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Austin
Posts: 5,438
Likes (Received): 612

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
The likes of Cathay Pacific and Singapore Airlines pay international rates. Many pilots and crew are based in the West, and even mainland Chinese carriers now hire pilots from abroad due to a local talent shortage. These people are not being paid scraps and pennies, yet can still provide full meal service on their short haul flights. The cost structures in this part of the world are far more realistic to market and competitive, making these seemingly standard service features affordable and standard here.

Then there are the notable exceptions - Japan Air and ANA, which operate in the ultra-expensive Japanese market.

Staff are paid according to the prevailing wages in their markets. That may be a fraction of what an American counterpart may cost, but that's the market. For example, 60 cents here can mean $2 elsewhere. In the US, that market wage has been distorted by unions, and is no longer a true supply-and-demand market wage. Here in Asia, ironically the market has a much stronger say on what capitalism's equilibrium should be.


I still don't understand why U.S. airlines are struggling while Asian countries and pretty much the rest of the world is booming. You said it's the unions so are airline employees in the U.S. the highest paid in the world? Also I'm not sure whether or not the $115 barrel price for oil is only affecting the U.S. or the the whole world. I doubt Emirates pays a high cost for fuel or the airlines in Venezuela.
FM 2258 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 17th, 2008, 02:38 PM   #374
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,962
Likes (Received): 18222

Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
I still don't understand why U.S. airlines are struggling while Asian countries and pretty much the rest of the world is booming. You said it's the unions so are airline employees in the U.S. the highest paid in the world? Also I'm not sure whether or not the $115 barrel price for oil is only affecting the U.S. or the the whole world. I doubt Emirates pays a high cost for fuel or the airlines in Venezuela.
Many factors. Labour costs are a huge chunk that are easily changeable in Asia Pacific due to looser union activity, but are a major problem in the US, especially in the pensions area. Oil is another problem but airlines control it by hedging. How much they hedge differs across the industry.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 24th, 2008, 03:17 PM   #375
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,962
Likes (Received): 18222

Delta Air Lines posts loss as fuel costs bite

NEW YORK, April 23 (Reuters) - Delta Air Lines Inc , the No. 3 U.S. carrier, posted a first-quarter loss on Wednesday as high fuel costs and a weakening economy continue to roil the industry.

Delta, which emerged from bankruptcy about a year ago, said its quarterly net loss was $6.4 billion, or $16.15 per share, compared with a loss of $130 million in the same period a year earlier, when the company's shares were unlisted.

Delta said last week it plans to buy Northwest Airlines Corp for more than $3 billion in a bid to create the world's biggest airline by traffic.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 25th, 2008, 10:07 AM   #376
Magellan
Registered User
 
Magellan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 335
Likes (Received): 0

Quarterly Losses

Taking out the Bankruptcy charges, the losses are a little less:
Delta's loss, before a bankruptcy-related charge, was $274 million, or 69 cents a share. Northwest said its deficit was $191 million, or 78 cents, before costs also related to its bankruptcy. Analysts expected narrower losses on that basis.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=axkHoPkohk1M
Magellan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 25th, 2008, 01:54 PM   #377
Sen
Registered User
 
Sen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,644
Likes (Received): 24

NW is actually very competitive in Asia, I can't see the old customers switching to Delta, which has no presence in Asia until a while ago.
At least they could have kept the NW livery, I see this as the begining of the end of Delta-NW.
Sen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2008, 07:16 AM   #378
Rail Claimore
Registered User
 
Rail Claimore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 1,152
Likes (Received): 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sen View Post
NW is actually very competitive in Asia, I can't see the old customers switching to Delta, which has no presence in Asia until a while ago.
At least they could have kept the NW livery, I see this as the begining of the end of Delta-NW.
Delta actually had a significant presence in Asia in the 1990's. They flew from Portland to just about every destination NW served. It was all scaled back about 10 years ago because of the Asian financial crisis.
Rail Claimore no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2008, 10:33 AM   #379
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,962
Likes (Received): 18222

Delta raises domestic fares around $10 to $40 per roundtrip
28 April 2008

ATLANTA (AP) - Travelers aren't just feeling the pinch at the gas pump, but also in the air as carriers continue to hike fares to deal with high jet fuel prices.

Delta Air Lines Inc., the nation's third-largest carrier, said Monday it raised domestic fares in most cases $10 to $40 per roundtrip, in the form of a fuel surcharge.

The latest hike covers the bulk of Atlanta-based Delta's route system, according to Rick Seaney of airline ticket researcher FareCompare.com.

A spokeswoman for Eagan, Minn.-based Northwest Airlines Corp. said the carrier was studying the Delta-initiated fare hike. Tempe, Ariz.-based US Airways Group Inc. also was studying the Delta move, a spokesman said.

A spokesman for Fort Worth, Texas-based AMR Corp.'s American Airlines did not immediately return an e-mail Monday seeking comment on whether it would match the Delta hike.

Airlines have been hiking fares in recent months to deal with soaring fuel prices, spurred by oil, which currently stands at nearly $120 a barrel. Some fare increases have stuck, while others have not.

Northwest said Friday night that it would match a previous 3 percent to 5 percent increase first implemented by Chicago-based UAL Corp.'s United Airlines and matched by Delta, American and Houston-based Continental Airlines Inc.

Delta Chief Executive Richard Anderson said last week that domestic carriers need to raise ticket prices 15 to 20 percent just to break even at existing fuel prices. United, Delta and other major carriers reported this month billions of dollars in combined quarterly losses.

Some major carriers are looking at consolidation to protect their futures.

Delta is seeking to buy Northwest -- Michigan's biggest passenger air carrier -- in a stock-swap deal. US Airways and United are in talks about a combination, people familiar with the negotiations have told The Associated Press.

Some smaller carriers, meanwhile, have filed for bankruptcy protection or gone out of business in recent months.

The latest casualty was all-business-class carrier Eos Airlines Inc. The Purchase, N.Y.-based airline, which flew between New York and London, operated its last flights Sunday.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2008, 01:49 PM   #380
annman
Annman
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cape Town, Cincinnati, Seattle
Posts: 6,558
Likes (Received): 429

Delta's Africa Expansion

Well, we here in Cape Town, South Africa (southernmost city in Africa) are excited to welcome Delta to our list of airlines when they start flying from here to NYC-JFK in June. Hope Delta regains some financial strength!

Will also make it easier for soccer fans in the USA to get to South Africa come the FIFA World Cup 2010!

Delta... welcome to the Fairest Cape...


annman no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
airline, airlines, north american airlines, oneworld, skyteam, star alliance, travel, united states, us airlines

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium