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Old May 23rd, 2008, 03:56 AM   #981
Mr. Met
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZ-II View Post
everything is possible, it only depends on how much money is available


edit @Tag_one: carbon is very expensive....money is again the problem
if anyone has the money, it is the oil rich middle east
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 04:01 AM   #982
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Originally Posted by nezzybaby View Post
I don't think a single person on this planet with a civil or mechanical engineering degree would ever put a limit on how high something can be built. If you widen the base you can build higher, there is very little stopping this principle. The only reasons for a potential height limit on the size of a building would be sheer quantity of materials required. Scientifically, theoretically, physically there is no limit.

If you build a building with a 10metre wide base and 10cm thick concrete walls, as a tapering structure to a height of 50m. You then build a building with twice as wide a base, to twice a height and use the same thickness of walls, the building will be fine, extend this to infinity.

The way I've explained it before is with the example of Bryan Berg, he is the worlds greatest card house builder. You may think the tallest a house of card could possibly be is 1metre, 2 metres etc. He will tell you there is no upper limit, just more thought about how to build it:

That is where IBM screwed up in the world of microprocessors, years ago they had a fast processor and said that is as fast as we would need. Mine is probably a million times faster and it is a Pentium III, now they have quad cores, the same thing applies for everything though, anybody who gives up and says we can't do any better than the status quo will be wrong and everyone else will fly past them with better ideas or designs for something.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 06:23 AM   #983
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Quote:
Any pictures of AL Burj renders
None have been released yet. If I had to put some money, I would say June. Someone (I don't remember exactly who) implied a couple of months ago that June might be likely. Also there will be a convention about how tall it is possible to build in June. Sounds like a good time for an unveiling to me.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 11:45 AM   #984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nezzybaby View Post
I don't think a single person on this planet with a civil or mechanical engineering degree would ever put a limit on how high something can be built. If you widen the base you can build higher, there is very little stopping this principle. The only reasons for a potential height limit on the size of a building would be sheer quantity of materials required. Scientifically, theoretically, physically there is no limit.

If you build a building with a 10metre wide base and 10cm thick concrete walls, as a tapering structure to a height of 50m. You then build a building with twice as wide a base, to twice a height and use the same thickness of walls, the building will be fine, extend this to infinity.

The way I've explained it before is with the example of Bryan Berg, he is the worlds greatest card house builder. You may think the tallest a house of card could possibly be is 1metre, 2 metres etc. He will tell you there is no upper limit, just more thought about how to build it:


Actually, I beg to differ. There is almost certainly a physical limit on how big you can build something before it collapses on itself due to its own weight. This is a fundamental physical property of scaling. If you build something that is scaled by x in every dimension, its MASS will scale as x CUBED. On the other hand, the STRENGTH of the object in overcoming its mass is only proportional to the cross section area, which goes up as x SQUARED. Since a*x^3 goes up much faster than b*x^2, no matter what constants a and b are, when an object gets above a critical size, it becomes too heavy and will collapse.

The scaling problem isn't just true for buildings, but for anything. Using better design techniques or better materials will only buy you a larger constant b or smaller a, so your critical mass will increase, but there will always be a limit. It's for this reason land animals cannot weigh more than about 200 tonnes, because the strength of its leg muscles only goes up as the square of the limb's cross section. Any larger, and the animal won't be able to stand.

An even better example of large objects collapsing is to be found in the planets and stars. There are small asteroids and planetoids that are irregularly shaped. But for bigger planetary objects, once its diameter gets beyond about 2000 km across, its mass is so large that gravitational forces pulls it into a sphere. In other words, the material that make up the planet is not sufficiently strong to support large deviations from equilibrium, which is the sphere. Similarly, stars are so massive the only reason they don't collapse into black holes or neutron stars is because of nuclear fusion. But once their fuel runs out, they collapse anyway.

Given a table on the strength of materials, the type of construction method to be used (e.g. a tubular structure, etc.), I would bet that someone knowledgeable can calculate the ultimate limit on how big the building can be. There are physical limits on everything. Even things where scaling is taken for granted - like transistors, for example - have physical limits on how small we can make them, and scientists have been calculating these things, using principles of electromagnetics or quantum theory.

Last edited by wavelet; May 23rd, 2008 at 11:52 AM.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 04:39 PM   #985
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I see what you are saying, but different materials can be developed that are lighter and strong like carbon fiber, while this is more expensive,it could be the way to build higher, plus, you never know what advancements we will make in the future.
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Old May 27th, 2008, 08:38 AM   #986
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Al Burj Purpose

I don't see the point f building Al Burj, not saying that it shouldn't but, then whats the point of Burj Dubai, all that money, the time , to construct the world's tallest tower, then build the world's tallest tower AGAIN, i don't get it, why?

the design is awesome i'd prefered it to build it instead of burj dubai to start with, it seems they just thought of it , ie. WE NEED ANOTHER TALLEST IN THE WORLD TOWER!

But i don't know why ? Any thoughts ?
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Old May 27th, 2008, 08:41 AM   #987
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I think Dubai should wait until another building tops the Burj Dubai. There is no point to try to beat your own record. Unless of course Nakheel only cares about being better than the competition (Emaar).
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Old May 27th, 2008, 09:31 AM   #988
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grrrrr .... Dubai wants to build many many towers , some are 4 floors , some are 200 floors >< some will be more

Its like someone building a 4 storey mansion , it makes the news , we all go ooo aaaa , then another guy in the same city builds a 5 storey mansion

same thing here guys , the AL BURJ will be dwarfed by yet another tower for sure and the next and next and next , you cant stop the greedy bastards from making money on the basis that they should wait until a different city breaks the record >.<
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Old May 27th, 2008, 10:02 AM   #989
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Dubai Boy and Lover of Dubai, you two are right on the Point, WHY BREAK YOUR OWN RECORD AND WASTE BILLIONS!? anyways its not for me to judge or choose what is to be done in another country. but still, i like the towers
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Old May 27th, 2008, 10:48 AM   #990
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Abbas-AlShatti, if you do not see the point of building Al Burj, why do you have the Mubarak Tower in your avatar? That is just another building that is so tall just to pursue height... What is the point of building it?
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Old May 27th, 2008, 11:19 AM   #991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavelet View Post
Actually, I beg to differ. There is almost certainly a physical limit on how big you can build something before it collapses on itself due to its own weight. This is a fundamental physical property of scaling. If you build something that is scaled by x in every dimension, its MASS will scale as x CUBED. On the other hand, the STRENGTH of the object in overcoming its mass is only proportional to the cross section area, which goes up as x SQUARED. Since a*x^3 goes up much faster than b*x^2, no matter what constants a and b are, when an object gets above a critical size, it becomes too heavy and will collapse.
Okay, right, but that isn't going to happen with the Al-Burj. There are some pretty big things on Earth, bigger than any man-made object. Mt. Everest. Olympus Mons on Mars is even bigger, of course the gravity on Mars is much weaker, but nonetheless humans haven't reached size limits yet for skyscrapers. I mean, the Burj is the first skyscraper to break just the 2000' mark.
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Old May 27th, 2008, 02:50 PM   #992
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoverOfDubai View Post
I think Dubai should wait until another building tops the Burj Dubai. There is no point to try to beat your own record. Unless of course Nakheel only cares about being better than the competition (Emaar).
Is in competition the only reason these monsters are built? They sure are not economically feasible. Whether the competition is between countries or developers it's still competition and the thing that makes builders build these records setting towers.
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Old May 31st, 2008, 12:54 PM   #993
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I have found renders on flickr, saying it would be al burj, but for me it looks more like from a computer game:

image hosted on flickr
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Old May 31st, 2008, 01:00 PM   #994
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^ Great pictures, but it's clearly fictional.

Let's stay on topic please and stick to what we *know* about this tower, rather than imaginary stuff or wild speculation.
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Old May 31st, 2008, 01:00 PM   #995
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Hehe, well, as far as i know there are no flying cars in Dubai. (def. a computer game or a simple rendering)
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Old May 31st, 2008, 01:25 PM   #996
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http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3159/...139d2974_o.jpg

Illinois?
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Old May 31st, 2008, 03:10 PM   #997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbas-AlShatti View Post
I don't see the point f building Al Burj, not saying that it shouldn't but, then whats the point of Burj Dubai, all that money, the time , to construct the world's tallest tower, then build the world's tallest tower AGAIN, i don't get it, why?

the design is awesome i'd prefered it to build it instead of burj dubai to start with, it seems they just thought of it , ie. WE NEED ANOTHER TALLEST IN THE WORLD TOWER!

But i don't know why ? Any thoughts ?
The reason we build higher is simple....same reason man does most anything new and unusual...


Man's reach must exceed his grasp, or what's a heaven for?

Remember, Dubai is trying to reinvent isteself before the oil runs dry...building these spectacular buildings will help the tourism industry to no end...unless gas and oil keep sprialing out of control where no one can afford to travel anymore.
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Old May 31st, 2008, 06:52 PM   #998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The-King View Post
image hosted on flickr
The tower in the left, looks like the Burj Dubai.
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Old May 31st, 2008, 07:41 PM   #999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMoN-SK View Post
Abbas-AlShatti, if you do not see the point of building Al Burj, why do you have the Mubarak Tower in your avatar? That is just another building that is so tall just to pursue height... What is the point of building it?
no the my point is now is its too early for Alburj. Burj Dubai should be given more appreciation time if you like otherwise wheres the fun it. Or Alburj should be on hold until someone else builds somethin taller that Burj Dubai, then it would have a meaning of '' I have the tallest tower in the world ''.

I would really like to Construction of Al Bur to start tonight if possible lol but if its built later it would have a more better fame. Also in Todays age Height is everything
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Old May 31st, 2008, 08:49 PM   #1000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cristobal_illo View Post
The tower in the left, looks like the Burj Dubai.
And the tower on the right looks like the older design of Al Burj.
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