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Old July 18th, 2008, 06:16 AM   #1141
Hollie Maea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luci203 View Post
I'm sure Burj Dubai as it is now is the extreme building for concrete and steel. Even if they thicken the walls, the problem is that the building will colapse under her own weight, with curent materials, no mather how thick thw walls would be.
I read from a knowledgeable source (don't remember where) that current construction methods can support a height of up to about 2.5KM. This building won't be pushing the feasible limits of engineering (economics and building methods are another thing ).
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Old July 18th, 2008, 10:16 AM   #1142
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Young's moduli of various solids:

Oak wood: 11 GPa

Concrete: 30-100 GPa

Steel: 190-210 GPa

Titanium carbide: 450-650 GPa

Diamond: 1050-1200 GPa

Is obvious that with carbides they coud push the limit high. I wait now for a Diamond Tower to reach the sky.
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Old July 18th, 2008, 02:22 PM   #1143
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Did anyone pay attention this article a few weeks ago?
http://www.zawya.com/story.cfm/sidZAWYA20080626052159
Nakheel is selling land to fund this tower. At least for now. I didn't think the debt crisis was that bad.


And a quick note to the inconsiderate...
I disgree that this forum is overmoderated. It's undermoderated. Posts that are inflammatory/religious/geo-political, and/or ones full of biases and vicious lies, dont merit a single word here and should be automatically deleted.
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Old July 18th, 2008, 04:19 PM   #1144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luci203 View Post
Young's moduli of various solids:

Oak wood: 11 GPa

Concrete: 30-100 GPa

Steel: 190-210 GPa

Titanium carbide: 450-650 GPa

Diamond: 1050-1200 GPa

Is obvious that with carbides they coud push the limit high. I wait now for a Diamond Tower to reach the sky.

I think the strength is a little more relevent than Young's modulus. Young's modulus is a function of stiffness rather than strength. Although materials that are strong tend to be stiff and vice versa.

Concrete with E of 100GPa? Not likely in this century. That implies a concrete strength of about 400MPa which hasn't even been achieved in a laboratory. Concrete E is around 30GPa.
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Old July 18th, 2008, 04:26 PM   #1145
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Hi Nezzy.

While they may dig to bedrock on this structure, the bedrock is too deep under the Burj Dubai. It sits on 194 skin friction piles.( yes 194 - not 192 as one of the 3 wings has an extra 2 piles ) This may use them as well.

Good comment. People on here need to understand that foundations behave in a variety of different ways. To say 'sand is bad' is very simplistic and, in many situations, completely wrong. For light loads, sand is great, because unlike clay, it isn't highly reactive to changes in moisture content. Houses built on clay have all sorts of problems due to ground movements. Houses built on sand fare much better.

As for piles, rafts etc, their behaviour is highly varied and is tuned to the soil type. Piles can resist loads in bearing or friction and they may use the soil or may simply bypass it and bear on rock.

So, without writing a 50 page essay, I would say 'no there isn't necessarily a fundamental problem with building skyscrapers in an area where the soil is predominantly sandy'.
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Old July 19th, 2008, 01:09 AM   #1146
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I wonder how high you can build with pure diamonds (with exact old al burj design's side extending all the way up). I imagine more than 10 km.
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Old July 19th, 2008, 04:36 AM   #1147
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good one Slurms nicely explained
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Old July 19th, 2008, 10:15 AM   #1148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buildmilehightower View Post
I wonder how high you can build with pure diamonds (with exact old al burj design's side extending all the way up). I imagine more than 10 km.
I don't think there's enough diamont for that..
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Old July 19th, 2008, 12:18 PM   #1149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurms Mackenzie View Post
So, without writing a 50 page essay, I would say 'no there isn't necessarily a fundamental problem with building skyscrapers in an area where the soil is predominantly sandy'.
I never said there was a problem building tall buildings in sand. So i will try one more time:

It is harder to build small buildings in sand than in other soil types. For this reason tall buildings could be seen as more economical.

Now where is that brick wall, time to start banging my head against it again i feel!
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Old July 19th, 2008, 03:18 PM   #1150
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Suddenly I thought of placing N.Korea "Hotel of Doom" into here, I seriously think it will blend in perfectly with Dubai and fit the skyline perfectly well... Plus there wont be too much of a vacancy issues...
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Old July 19th, 2008, 03:42 PM   #1151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisS View Post
I don't think there's enough diamont for that..
Just wait...
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Old July 20th, 2008, 03:25 AM   #1152
malec
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Looks like were back to the beginning again:



http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Rea.../10230267.html


Contest for tallest tower in the Gulf hots up

By Suzanne Fenton, Staff Reporter
Published: July 19, 2008, 23:05

Dubai: Competition to build the world's tallest tower is hotting up in the Gulf as developers continue to battle it out with their increasingly ambitious designs and dizzying heights.

A report by Middle East Economic Digest (MEED) last week had said Nakheel was planning to increase the height of its Al Burj project to 1.4 kilometres, making it almost double the height of Emaar's Burj Dubai, which is said to be around 750 to 815 metres long. However, Nakheel has denied the report.

A spokesperson for Nakheel said yesterday that the design of the project was still being finalised, but height won't necessarily be the focus of the tower.

"Although the project will be a significant architectural structure, it's worth noting that an iconic building doesn't necessarily have to be the tallest.

For example, Sydney Opera House is an iconic building admired around the world and its worldwide appeal is not based on height," the spokesperson said.

The Al Burj project had originally been planned at Dubai waterfront with an initial height of 1,050 metres. The project will now come up near Ibn Battuta Mall, a source told Gulf News.

Mall development

According to the MEED report, Ibn Battuta is increasing its retail space to 250,000 square metres, with entertainment attractions, including a roller coaster on top of the mall itself.

Nakheel said further details on the tower are expected to be released by the end of this year.

Meanwhile, there are rumours that the proposed Saudi Arabian mile-high tower will fall short of the hyped mile.

According to sources, the tower could reach 5,250 feet, four times the size of the Empire State Building in New York, with a development value of £5 billion.

Unless you suffer from vertigo and if you can take the heady heights, from the top of the tower you'll be rewarded with an unparalleled view of the Middle East, North Africa and the Indian Ocean.

The project is being overseen by Saudi Prince Al Walid Bin Talal Bin Abdul Aziz Al Saud, under his company, Kingdom Holdings, in a joint venture with London firms Hyder Consulting and Arup.

Graham Whitehead, head of corporate communications at Hyder Consulting headquarters in London, told Gulf News that a confidentiality agreement had been signed between the parties involved and hence no details could be released.

Although the height and design specifications can't be released until Kingdom Holdings gives permission, a spokesperson for Hyder Consulting in Dubai said: "They are aiming for the tallest building in the world."
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Old July 20th, 2008, 05:20 AM   #1153
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Im sorry if there are already pictures on this thread but i was wondering if anyone had any current renderings of the tower? I dont feel like going through 57 pages.
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Old July 20th, 2008, 06:17 AM   #1154
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No, dfrench8456. There are no designs/renderings/plans. The building is still under design.
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Old July 20th, 2008, 07:49 AM   #1155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malec View Post
Looks like were back to the beginning again:



http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Rea.../10230267.html


Contest for tallest tower in the Gulf hots up

By Suzanne Fenton, Staff Reporter
Published: July 19, 2008, 23:05

Dubai: Competition to build the world's tallest tower is hotting up in the Gulf as developers continue to battle it out with their increasingly ambitious designs and dizzying heights.

A report by Middle East Economic Digest (MEED) last week had said Nakheel was planning to increase the height of its Al Burj project to 1.4 kilometres, making it almost double the height of Emaar's Burj Dubai, which is said to be around 750 to 815 metres long. However, Nakheel has denied the report.

A spokesperson for Nakheel said yesterday that the design of the project was still being finalised, but height won't necessarily be the focus of the tower.

"Although the project will be a significant architectural structure, it's worth noting that an iconic building doesn't necessarily have to be the tallest.

For example, Sydney Opera House is an iconic building admired around the world and its worldwide appeal is not based on height," the spokesperson said.

The Al Burj project had originally been planned at Dubai waterfront with an initial height of 1,050 metres. The project will now come up near Ibn Battuta Mall, a source told Gulf News.

Mall development

According to the MEED report, Ibn Battuta is increasing its retail space to 250,000 square metres, with entertainment attractions, including a roller coaster on top of the mall itself.

Nakheel said further details on the tower are expected to be released by the end of this year.

Meanwhile, there are rumours that the proposed Saudi Arabian mile-high tower will fall short of the hyped mile.

According to sources, the tower could reach 5,250 feet, four times the size of the Empire State Building in New York, with a development value of £5 billion.

Unless you suffer from vertigo and if you can take the heady heights, from the top of the tower you'll be rewarded with an unparalleled view of the Middle East, North Africa and the Indian Ocean.

The project is being overseen by Saudi Prince Al Walid Bin Talal Bin Abdul Aziz Al Saud, under his company, Kingdom Holdings, in a joint venture with London firms Hyder Consulting and Arup.

Graham Whitehead, head of corporate communications at Hyder Consulting headquarters in London, told Gulf News that a confidentiality agreement had been signed between the parties involved and hence no details could be released.

Although the height and design specifications can't be released until Kingdom Holdings gives permission, a spokesperson for Hyder Consulting in Dubai said: "They are aiming for the tallest building in the world."
Does this amount to Nakheel crying 'Uncle!' ?
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Old July 20th, 2008, 04:23 PM   #1156
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^no, what happens is that somebody on this forum makes up some shit like "it's gonna be 1400m tall", then the press get wind of it and pass it on as news, the we get the press release and get more excited and speculate as to where it might be, then the press decide that they will release that as news. Then after a year of this Nakheel says "stop talking shit, we don't know whats happening so you definatly don't!"

I feel it's time for this thread to be locked for another year!
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Old July 20th, 2008, 04:33 PM   #1157
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agree, close it until we really have official news.....
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Old September 5th, 2008, 02:54 PM   #1158
malec
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I've reopened the thread. Please don't keep posting random crap.

Apparantly Imre has been asked by Nakheel not to take pictures of this site. I guess he won't get his free chopper rides if he doesn't do as told

Anyway, someone should hopefully get some sort of pictures soon.

There's a bit more activity on the site now and this as well:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imre View Post
new concrete mixer plant going to be close to the plot, they are working very fast there.
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Old September 5th, 2008, 04:41 PM   #1159
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Maybe I should start taking tons of pictures so Nakheel would ask me to stop in exchange of once in a while heli ride.
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Old September 5th, 2008, 04:52 PM   #1160
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BTW, from what I have seen during my daily commute, they are clearly doing the slurry wall around the site. All the machineries, some 5 - 6 in total, are concentrated in the same spot and that spot moves around slowly, indicating the machineries's movement along the perimeter of the site, which we think (based on the aerial pictures we've seen) is circular and with a diameter of around 200 meters.
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