New Islington

[nq]

So they did end up planting that flax...

http://www.propertyweek.com/news/new...021932.article

.

[jrb]

Manc Con.

LAST WEEK we reported that Urban Splash was planning on knocking down the Ancoats Dispensary, which dates back to the 1870s. It also appeared in one of LS Lowry's bleakest paintings 'Hospital Outpatients Hall', 1952.

It incited an emotional response from some of our readers, who felt Urban Splash should perhaps foot the bill for its repair and preservation, especially as some argued that the firm had made a big deal of keeping community landmarks as an important element of any new development.

The readers comments are on this issue often quite brilliant - read them here for some excellent background to the anger.

Confidential went to talk to Kate Dickson and Tamara McNeill, trust director and project officer respectively at Heritage Works, the independent charity that carried out the study into the dispensary, trying to find alternate uses.

“Sadly, the building has just been a victim of circumstance. Our work ends here. We can’t take it on."

They explained that the changing nature of the funding landscape for heritage projects was putting more listed buildings at risk than ever, and maintained that developer Urban Splash explored every avenue before applying for a demolition order.

“Urban Splash got in touch last December and offered us the building,” said Dickson. “We get a lot of offers, from councils and private developers.

“We had to look at how much grant funding it would need, if it was available and where it would come from. A grant Splash had previously been given had been withdrawn, but in the meantime, they had to start repairs because they’d been contacted by the council. That’s why the roof has been taken off.

“Splash gave us a grant to carry out the study, which was fully independent. We have a special interest in the building too because we started life as the Ancoats Building Preservation Trust, so we know it well. We wanted to find a solution.”

Heritage Works teamed up with agencies like New East Manchester and Marketing Manchester on a consultation exercise, piggy-backing a lot of their contacts, but had no responses.

Heritage Works also contacted hotel operators like Malmaison, Eclectic Hotels – which owns the Great John Street Hotel – and serviced apartment firm Staying Cool, but McNeill said the costs were too prohibitive. The estimated bill to turn the building into a hotel was more than £10m.

The biggest surprise, said McNeill, was the lack of involvement from the local community.

“We were actually shocked at the lack of local interest and engagement. We didn’t have a single response when we asked for ideas of what to do with it,” she said.

“I don’t think people don’t care…they just didn’t know what to do with it.”

Dickson said funders like English Heritage and the National Lottery are more concerned with outputs – what the building can produce for the economy – over plain preservation.

“You have to make sure buildings pay their way,” she said. “They can’t be a drain on the public purse. The most plausible use was some sort of office space and we tried to find social enterprises to take it on but they wouldn’t. The numbers just didn’t stack up.

“People buy assets, not wrecks. The £200,000 you’d need just to secure it buys you a couple of years. To repair, you’re looking at a minimum of £1m. That buys you a roof, floors, some walls. Just to carry out façade retention, we were quoted £700,000. And that’s before fees and other costs.”

The build costs for various uses ranged from £3.5m to £18.4m, and the end value was lower than the investment required each time. “Who’s going to come up with that sort of cash these days?” said Dickson.

“We looked at the regional growth fund, but that is based on job creation. We even tried to look beyond the Olympics and how lottery funding might change.”

“Sadly, the building has just been a victim of circumstance. Our work ends here. We can’t take it on.

The building is being visited every week by the council to see if it has moved or become less stable. In its current state, said Dickson, it is ‘extremely dangerous.’

Urban Splash, on the other hand, stand by their decision to demolish the building and have so far declined to comment when contacted by Confidential.

“The wider picture is that more listed buildings will go, such as schools, hospitals, even churches,” said Dickson.” But the fact of the matter is that redeveloping the dispensary is not financially viable.”

[wecantski]

Originally Posted by guy debord

Apparently, there are only 10 original residents left that want to move back in, the others have left the area.

is this true?not unexpected in these types of developments yet somehow I naively thought there may be an element of difference in this one

[pixel2006]

Originally Posted by wecantski

is this true?not unexpected in these types of developments yet somehow I naively thought there may be an element of difference in this one

Agreed. I guess it is to do with the time delays, the original residents will have built new lives.

The delays actually pisses me off. That 2008-9 stimulus should been spent on social housing and energy efficiency measures and not propping up failing car firms and the like. Mind you my experience of the HCA and RSLs is that they are soooooo slooooooow to make any decisions: strategy > consultation > review strategy and repeat until you funding is used up. Rant over.

[nq]

App for a few more houses, applicant is 'New Islington Client Group', which is MCC, HCA & Urban Splash. No plans online yet.

096942/FO/2011/N1 New Islington Road, New Islington Manchester M4 6FD

Erection of 28 no. 2 storey dwellings and 16 no. 3 storey dwellings with associated access roads/gates, car parking, boundary treatment and landscaping

[nq]

Plans are by shedkm, quite a chunk of housing for a main bit of the New Islington plot. The masterplan gets an update.



RIP Tutti-Frutti

[Slow Burn]

Some of the new houses being built in New Islington



Being built on either side of this street

[Slow Burn]

Update on the Canal Basin works



And then jumping over to the top right of the above picture where the health centre is, it look like the first phase of the canal works will shortly be open to the public - well, I see no reason why not anyway. But on the other hand without the boats there's no reason to go there anyway.



There was a gap in the fence so I had a little walk round myself. S'alright




And on the other side of the street towards Chips

[Unremarkable]

I long to see the day when New Issy is a vibrant urban community instead of the patch work mish mash of developments that we have up to now that with the best will in the world, don't fit together to make the place feel like a community, just yet. I know it's down to the massive building work and metrolink line being installed etc, I just long for the day it looks finished lol.

Great photos, thanks.

[GShutty]

The Metrolink will add a little life at the Pollard St end, but it will be a good start when you can simply walk from Pollard St, along the new canal toe-paths and across the middle of N.I. on to Red Hill St. Something of a 'giving it back to the people' achievement.

[Goldie]

I'm glad to see that proper berths for boats - with power hook ups - have been installed in the basin. Having traffic on the canal will help bring the place to life. It'd be good to see one of the big bat hire companies like Black Prince http://www.black-prince.com/ opening a base there - the Peak Forest, Huddersfield and Rochdale canals are all very beautiful as they wind their way up into the Pennines...

[Irish Blood English Heart]

Wonder if they'll be any residential moorings?

Would be great to be able to live so close to the city on a boat, but not sure about security in that part of Manchester at present!

[Ancoats Residents]

The Ancoats Residents Forum represents the various building and street resident associations in the Ancoats Urban Village. We have objected to the planning application to demolish the Grade II listed Ancoats Dispensary Building by urban Splash. For those interested in supporting the campaign to stop the demolition there is a petition at:

http://www.petitiononline.co.uk/petition/save-ancoats-dispensary/3320

and a facebook page at:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-ancoats-hospital/195596477164837?sk=info

recent press

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/the-nor...r-architecture

Thanks
James Headifen
Ancoats Residents Forum Chairman

[mcr guy]

I would sign up but isnt to late as im sure they have starting knocking this down now?

[StanP]

Originally Posted by mcr guy

I would sign up but isnt to late as im sure they have starting knocking this down now?

Not too late, permission to demolish hasn't been granted yet. So if they have started they will be in BIG trouble, and massively fined. Sign the petition, it can't do any harm can it?

[VoldemortBlack]

Thing is though, people have only just started to pay attention to this building now that it's about to be demolished. Up until now, no-one has given a shit. Hence why it's in the condition it is. This is Manchester's future, and in 100 years time, it'll all be history. This building was probably built upon some medieval house, and that medieval house may even have been built upon something. It's progress.

[loweskid]

I agree. It's all very well protesting and signing petitions but if no-one is prepared to stump up the money to restore it then it's going to stay a ruin covered in scaffolding, and just be an eyesore.

[StanP]

Originally Posted by VoldemortBlack

Thing is though, people have only just started to pay attention to this building now that it's about to be demolished. Up until now, no-one has given a shit. Hence why it's in the condition it is. This is Manchester's future, and in 100 years time, it'll all be history. This building was probably built upon some medieval house, and that medieval house may even have been built upon something. It's progress.

Not quite true, Urban Splash itself promised to have this building as a centrepeice, so they at least gave a shit. Well they did when they thought they could make a profit out of it.
Manchester still has many empty brownfield sites that need developing. Indeed New Islington itself has loads of undeveloped plots.
If Manchester disregards its history it will be to its detriment.
There is plenty of room in New Islington for fantastic new developments allongside buildings of historic value that are left. It would be nice to keep something in addition to, and different from, the mills and warehouses.
If this building were preventing a development from going ahead, and the plot was required, I would be the first to say get rid. However it is not in the way, the plot is not required and there is nothing planned for the site!
Urban Splash have made a mint out of Manchester, its about time they gave a bit back.

[StanP]

Originally Posted by loweskid

I agree. It's all very well protesting and signing petitions but if no-one is prepared to stump up the money to restore it then it's going to stay a ruin covered in scaffolding, and just be an eyesore.

If this building is demolished the site will not be developed untill this recession is over, it will be a wasteland, or worse still a surface car park. Equally as much an eyesore, in that area of New Islington. It has enough of these vacant plots awaiting development already.

Once there is a change in economic climate, this building may well be financially viable to restore, however if it demolished that option is no longer available.

In the 60's and 70's many many buildings were demolished and replaced with inferior buildings that are now being replaced again. Elizabeth House is an example. We realy don't want to make the same mistakes.

As in my previous post, if this building were standing in the way of a development, or a fantastic building were planned to go in its place, that would be another matter.

As for stumping up the money, haven't Urban Splash had more than their fair share of grants, paid out of taxes?

If Peel Holdings were to be suggesting demolishing such an historic building to leave the plot empty for years, there would be an outcry. Not least of all from forumers on this site. Urban Splash are showing they are no different.

[Ancoats Residents]

Several points to rectify/ clarify.


The tower was taken down for safety reasons with bricks etc saved.


The planning committee meeting is on 27th Oct.


One of the most unsavoury aspects of this affair is the line proposed,by some, that the residents of Ancoats did not / do not really care about this issue. Some have couched this’caring issue’ in language that suggests that the so called ‘lack of interest’ by residents is a factor in pulling the building down and that the local community needs to take responsibility for this apathy.

Perhaps there is an unwitting tendency for some to apply the cliché of Shameless types or disinterested students in new flats to the Ancoats community. The kind of thinking the people that live in Ancoats (and many in organisations like the NWDA, various businesses etc) are determined to fight.


This was the impression of Ancoats that concerned residents felt Heritage Works may have fostered, especially in the Manchester Confidential article. The stated surprise at the local communitys disinterest despite wide consultaion about possible futures for the building. Ancoats Residents Forum challenged the article in question and some of the wording was retracted / changed.

Heritage Works felt that they had not been quoted entirely properly and that they did not intend to portray community apathy in any of their press. You will see below that there is an argument to be had about what wide community was consulted.

What are the main points to counter the 'community don't give a shit so tear her down' argument above?


1 – They said would keep keep it.
Remember that on the developers websites, consultations etc, 3 historic buildings were touted as key parts of the historic Fabric of the community that would be kept. The Cobb N Coal Pub (now burnt down) , Stubbs Mill and the Ancoats Dispensary.

So it is not a case that ‘The hospital has been ignored for years’ by everyone – it was in the plans to regenerate. Watch the Urban Splash Films on youtube which feature these buildings and ask ‘ Why would any one think they would be demolished’?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apnuuZNugsE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qVhq...eature=related

2 - Which ‘community’ was told that plans had changed?
Urban Splash often attended local community events and meetings. It is not like they have had a banner for the last few years ‘Ancoats Hospital... coming down soon’ that the community ignored. Residents did become concerned that the work had stalled and the roof gone earlier this year. They were told further planning permission was to be sought– and then that it was for demolition. Same time as it was made public to everyone else.

Heritage works stated that they had consulted the community widely about the issue earlier in the year to inform people and look for ideas. This is part of the ARF response argument to that ‘community consultation’ as part of the ARF planning objection.


‘The fact that only one residents represented within our group had seen any of the public consultation preformed by Urban Splash’s agent Heritage Works which included a notice on page 24 of MEN on 20 Jan 2011 and similar in the specific construction industry websites Richworks, The Place Station and Sky Scraper City (of limited visibility to the general public) is evidence that this consultation failed to actually consult the community with the closest links to the building.


The fact that very wide roaming organisations like Community Arts North West, Community Foundation for Greater Manchester, Greater Manchester Centre for Voluntary Organisations , Manchester Community Central were emailed but that resident associations within Ancoats (some of which have websites and Face book pages open to the public) were not or that (confirmed by the NWDA representative on our Forum) the Ancoats Residents Forum was not contacted despite being a creation of the NWDA (a major stake holder in the area), is evidence that the public consultation was inadequate especially in regards to Ancoats residents’.

Ancoats is neighbourhood facing more challenges than most, Over the years it has been carved up (it used to stretch from the medlock to Oldham rd), parts renamed, (Ancoats Hospital is in New Islington outside the Ancoats and Clayton Ward). Many ‘older’ residents were moved out, houses and whole streets removed and are yet to be rebuilt, many new residents from all over moved into flats in a short period of time. Plus it has a massive, largely, stalled building site in the middle. All good intentions in New islington and no doubt parts will be great one day.... but not worked out quite to plan so far.

Would not even the most rooted, affluent suburb struggle to have community cohesion if faced with that level of change?

And yet immediately after hospital tear down was announced people in the local and wider community began working to see what could be done to stop or delay it. The overwhelming consensus on websites, emails, discussions was 'No!'

So Facebook sites went up, petitions stared, formal objections submitted, media contacted with radio and press article resulting.

It is very easy to jump on a forum and belittle peoples community involvement ‘didn’t give a shit ‘ etc – to be defeatist. That is one of the down sides of internet forum culture – aggressive negativity.

Thank you for those who have had supportive things to say and the surge of petition signatures today. It does not hurt to sign a petition or ‘like ‘ a facebook etc. Will it make a difference... maybe not.... but what if it did?

The community still belongs to the people who live in it and people have the right to be heard. They still vote. What's the alternative.... plug in the ipod head phones, turn on the football and buy into the line that average people and communities are powerless to stop things they disagree with all of the time? Thank god that most people do not think that way.

If you think that it is important to keep this part of the historic fabric of the worlds first industrial suburb intact and that without a connection to the past New Islington will feel the lack, be something well short of what was promised to the residents and to Manchester - Sign up

If you don’t look away or put down an argument as to why you don’t. But don’t say that 'no one gave a shit'.





http://www.petitiononline.co.uk/petition/save-ancoats-dispensary/3320


http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-ancoats-hospital/195596477164837?sk=info#!/pages/Save-ancoats-hospital/195596477164837?sk=wall