New Islington

[guy debord]

Originally Posted by VoldemortBlack

Thing is though, people have only just started to pay attention to this building now that it's about to be demolished. Up until now, no-one has given a shit. Hence why it's in the condition it is. This is Manchester's future, and in 100 years time, it'll all be history. This building was probably built upon some medieval house, and that medieval house may even have been built upon something. It's progress.

With respect, that is the most idiotic comment I've ever read on this forum.

[heatonparkincakes]

Nah I have read worse Guy. Especially concerning land value tax and monorails if you get my drift.

It's not an excuse, but volty is a teenager, who like most teens looks at the world from a point of immediacy and not from a historic viewpoint. He is wrong,but that's because age allows us a perpective greater than the here and now.

Ancoats dispensary is a classic example of public squalor, private wealth.

[Ancoats Residents]

From memory the hospital is built on an area that would have probably been a swampy field due to the now culverted Shooters brook running nearby. Ancoats has its origin in the phrase Ana Cots - which means something like lonely hamlet or scattered cottages. The now demolished medieval Ancoats Hall was down the way on what is now the corner Every and Great Ancoats St..... So the chances that the hospital was built on a historic medieval dwelling is slim....
More likely, if it had been built ‘on top of anything ,it would have been a shed or work shop that intern had been built on a cleared , drained field not long before when the area was laid out. That means the argument that teh destruction and eventual replacment of the hospital with a new building is just part of a natural historical continuity with one historic building replacing the next is very weak. Ancoats dispensary is the starting point for urban building history for that site. Starting points should be preserved where possible as they are evermore rare.

[Ancoats Residents]

To segue to a New Islington / Ancoats more positive linking subject for a moment.... Local residents, people from afar, canal boat enthusiasts and even staff members of Urban Splash (Great thing about a democratic community.... you can disagree passionately about one issue without shooting one another .... which leaves room to cooperate on those thing you agree on) have been working on a volunteer Canal adoption within Ancoats / New Islington( Rochdale Canal side). First event was today with great turn out but room for all comers. Check out the website for more details and register if you are interested.
http://ancoatscanal.wordpress.com/
Thanks for listening.

Thanks for listening.

[pixel2006]

Wonder how much it would cost to stabilise the wall and turn it into one of those ruined building garden type thingies - like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L9a8ISdKZc

Or about turning it into a climbing wall - on the inside of course - which could generate a bit of dosh for the local community (jobs and a Community Interest Company).

Surely some funding could be found for this and while Urban Splash lose out on the land or whatever, they made the commitment and have made a wedge in Manchester and it would be great for their CSR and PR, which demolition isn't.

[GShutty]

Signed.

I must say I was dismayed at the initial negativity displayed. Keep up the good work StanP.

[StanP]

Originally Posted by GShutty

Signed.

I must say I was dismayed at the initial negativity displayed. Keep up the good work StanP.

I don't have anything to do with the petition, but support what the residents are trying to do.

Forumers on here are the first to condemn Britannia Hotel Group, calling them greedy for leaving the Fire Station building undeveloped. Ancoats Hospital is equally as important in the history of this area of Manchester. It would be a shame to demolish a building because the owners have been too greedy to do anything timely with it.

Urban Splash are showing their true colours as far as I am concerned, they are no different from any other developer. They try to promote themselves as being different, somehow more caring, more sustainable, more modern and inclusive. They are proving to be just the same as the big boys, bottom line, profit is what really matters.

By the way, Pixel, excellent idea, thinking with greater imagination. I would love to see a walled garden like Saint Dunstan. It works in London, why not here. Ahh I know, Urban Splash won't get to make any money.

[heatonparkincakes]

Was It not Sartre who said something like men condemns themselves by their own actions. Well let's see how certain people with big reputations can wriggle out of this.

Letting a building rot is a classic way for a developer to ensure that it is eventually demolished for a more profitable new build.

Not saying this is happening here, but it is all clearly wrong and many possible
explanations, some of course false, may be about.

[tomegranate]

Is it not the case that if developers with less imagination than Urban Splash had been in the picture, more of Manchester's heritage industrial buildings would have vanished over the last couple of decades to be replaced by even more bland 80s-90s blocks that might have been cheaper and more profitable to build from scratch. But yes, they're certainly no angels and their actions now are reflective of the times we're in.
Pure capitalist attitude in Britain's first industrial capitalist city. Very Manchester.

[StanP]

Originally Posted by tomegranate

Is it not the case that if developers with less imagination than Urban Splash had been in the picture, more of Manchester's heritage industrial buildings would have vanished over the last couple of decades to be replaced by even more bland 80s-90s blocks that might have been cheaper and more profitable to build from scratch. But yes, they're certainly no angels and their actions now are reflective of the times we're in.
Pure capitalist attitude in Britain's first industrial capitalist city. Very Manchester.

Urban Splash did have imagination in the early days, however they were only able to carry out their schemes when they were underpinned by massive grant aid. These grants were not available for new build, so your comment about it being more profitable to build from scratch is not necessarily correct. They made massive profits off the back of these grants. Not a model that is viable in a recession.

I would also question the use of grant aid to provide high end appartments and housess unaffordable to most workers, in effect subsidising those that can afford to pay the high prices. An example of this is Chimney Pot Park, out of reach to most of those that live, and have lived, for many years in that area.

You say that their actions now are a reflection of the times we are in. I would say that their actions in the past were those to cream as much money from the government and pocket the profits.

Pure capitalist attitudes maybe, however they pretend to be very different and everyone was taken in (I include myself in that by the way). I really did hope they were different, that they did "give a shit", but they have proved they are just the same as the developers they used to decry.

I really hope that as someone implied, they are just trying to get someone to stump up some grant money by scare tactics. This building should not be lost, it will be regretted in years to come.

[Irish Blood English Heart]

And of course let's not forget they've had £40m of funding for Park Hill and so far have only bought to market 80 apartments with no guarentee of any further unless they make a good margin on these ones.

[Rational Plan]

At the end of the day if the local market can not see to make a profit from converting an existing building, then it won't unless there is a subsidy. With the property market weak no one is going to start any large risky project. The companies with stronger balance sheets will go ahead with simple schemes (barratt is often first with a new scheme in the middle of a recession). Of course lower property prices in the North make the cost of conversion harder to stack up financially. At the moment for many property companies it's about selling existing schemes and clearing their debts before they go bankrupt. They invested too much before the crash and now they have a lot of capital they can't shift. Either they have cut prices to get some liquidity, or they are trying to balance cash flow with maintaining prices for their product.

The process is already underway but it will be a couple of years before equilibrium is restored. We are now in the stage where investors have bought or are looking at buying half finished blocks of flats of other bankrupt developers for a low price, finishing them off and selling at a low price. These are very popular with buyers and if your city has a lot of them will hoover up demand until they are sold.

It's only once all this old stock is cleared and the debts reduced to a manageable level will developers be looking at new schemes, at the right price.

Luckily customers like historical buildings to live in, it just depends how much more they are willing to pay to live in one, compared to new build. Then we have to look at how easy it is to convert. The problem in historical conversions is that it is hard to convert a lot of space to salable square footage and not be left with lots of big corridors and voids. A historical building is fighting against the profit of a new build from the square footage that will be allowed on the site and the cost of conversion.

It's strange you think that these companies should not make a profit, how do you expect them to survive? You can argue that they make too much profit. But that's only true on some projects, they need the high profits to compensate for the ones they make big losses on. Building is risky, you can get carried away and overbid on a site. There are construction or planning problems causing your costs to soar, too much product can flood the market at anyone time, you can get out by changing economic conditions.

Many companies can chug along in good times, but the true strength is tested in bad times. Companies that don't maximise their profits, from controlling costs etc, can be felled by an unexpected collapse of cash flow.

Many people get it wrong, as we see whenever there is a recession. The names of bankrupt companies and half built buildings is a reminder.

[jrb]

If somebody has some serious money and a bit of foresight, the Dispensary would make a wondeerful hotel and real ale house.

Think about it.

With COMS down the road, the leisure destination, the Etihad Campus and the training complex planned, as well as PL and CL matches guaranteed for the forseeable future, custom would be constant.

Not only that, but the Metrolink stop is next door and there are numerous apartment blocks surrounding the building, full of people with a few bob to spend who would no doubt appreciate a fine watering hole, serving many a fine ale, guest beers, as well as food.

People will always pay that bit extra to stay somehwere different, especially in a hotel that has character and history. If there's anyone reading this with a few bob spare or is very good friends with a bank manager, don't waste anytime. If might cost you initially, but you'll eventually get your money back and more.

Now where did I put that winning lottery ticket?

[Chogmook]

Or anyone with links to a Sheikh for whom money is no object.....

[iheartthenew]

I think you're right Jrb. Unfortunately I've not got a winning lottery ticket to hand either.

Anyone got Wetherspoon's telephone number? I mean there are worse options...

(if anyones really bothered I'm sure some sort of co-operative could be formed to take over the building? hint hint....)

[Chogmook]

Well, Urban Splash are just putting the finishing touches to Longlands in Stalybridge, so hopefully some revenue will come from that.

http://www.urbansplash.co.uk/longlands/

[heatonparkincakes]

Originally Posted by jrb

If somebody has some serious money and a bit of foresight, the Dispensary would make a wondeerful hotel and real ale.

Not sure what the opinion of the UAE ruling elite is on pale ale is, but you are right. Its agreat idea. A sub thread about the economic impact on the future Eastlands development would be interesting.

Ciabattas in Clayton, aubergine in Openshaw? Humous in Holt Town?

[macc]

There’s not enough people living there yet but such options will be more viable in the future. They just need to wait. Damage the scallies do to the building in the mean time will not match that of an Urban Splash bulldozer.

I don’t see any good reason why it can’t continue as it is for the foreseeable future. I’d be happy for the council to pay half the 200,000 grand to better secure it, but again it’d be more grant money they’ve been able to blag. They bought it though so really they should look after it.

Do what the owner of a dilapidated stately home would do: some fundraising to secure it’s future. There’s obviously enough people who care. Urban Splash good at marketing so stage an event or summink.

[uklad1979]

Originally Posted by heatonparkincakes

Not sure what the opinion of the UAE ruling elite is on pale ale is,

If it will make a return at some point then they are always interested. The government owns a third of the company here which runs the booze shops and hotels with bars plus they own the airport company which makes a killing off duty free. They have no issue selling booze and I am sure they are look for ways to sell more of it at the stadium.

The building would make a great wetherspoons with one of the lodges they run above it.

[flange]

Islington Marina Opens Next Week

Urban Splash launches East Manchester flotilla

Written by Jill Burdett.

THE new canal marina at New Islington in East Manchester will open to boats on Monday.
A mini flotilla is expected to chug along the canal network from Castlefield and take up residence in the new canal basin which links the Rochdale and Ashton canals in East Manchester.

Five of the 32 permanent moorings have been reserved and Richard Hattan, development director at Urban Splash, who will manage the marina, expects more to follow soon.

As well as the permanent bases there are also ten visitor moorings to accommodate boats passing through.

But while the boaters will have access to the new park, Cotton Field, it will not be open to the general public until next spring.

The arrival of the boats is a significant step and whatever your view of the rest of New Islington and the current scandalous state of the iconic dispensary, the canal basin, facilities for the boaters and Cotton Field park all look superb.

Confidential was given a quick tour by Richard and from behind the mesh fences you get a better idea of the monumental scale of this project and the difference it will make to the area when it is fully up and running. Yes, its cost £20m and taken far too long but it’s an ambitious and welcome addition to the city.

It’s also going to provide just about the most cost effective way to get a home in central Manchester.

Permanent moorings cost £25 per foot which means you would pay £1,500 a year plus VAT for a 60ft boat and you can pick up a 10 year old boat that can sleep six for under £40,000.

There are water points at the moorings (included in the fee) and a card operated electricity point. You will have to pay council tax though and no-one’s quite sure yet how much that will be.

You can rent secure car parking nearby, presumably under Chips, for £42 a month.

You also get access to a rather lovely eco-friendly shower cum laundry cum chill-out block. Designed by John Lee from ARCA it’s a cocoon of wood, standing on recycled tyres and insulated with straw that not only provides the necessary washing facilities but a communal place to sit round a log burning stove and free Wi-Fi.

It’s also a base for Bob the park keeper, whose role will expand to look after the marina as well.

There’s a similarly finished rubbish recycling block at the back of the site and a pump out station.

Access to these facilities and the services on the moorings and Cotton Field itself is by special key.

That same key also unlocks the canal bridges that give you boat access to the marina.

Two more major projects are due here soon; the Metro with a stop at the Ashton side of the Marina arrives next summer and a new footbridge at the Rochdale side directly linking the area to Ancoats.

The Metro stop will be a short walk over a re-vamped bridge across the canal to Chips and will suddenly make this block much more accessible to the city centre. There are four permanent moorings on the new canal arm that runs in front of the building and two visitor spaces on this side. Old Mill Street divides the Marina and you can’t take a boat through but you can walk from one side to the other.

The moorings reserved first are all on the Rochdale side, furthest into the site, and the five who have signed up are said to be a mixed bunch including a family.

Rob Owen Brown, the high profile chef at The Mark Addy, says he plans to move his narrowboat from its current mooring in Castlefield up to New Islington.

Richard is understandably rather excited about the boats’ arrival and said: “There will be no big fan fare or ceremony and it will take a while for all of them to arrive and get moored up. But everyone is very excited about having new moorings in the city in this wonderful setting.”

www.newislington.co.uk

http://www.manchesterconfidential.co...pens-Next-Week