£31bn aircraft deal may be scrapped

[Day Release]

£31bn aircraft deal may be scrapped
Press Association
Wednesday December 21, 2005

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/s...494517,00.html

A £31 billion project to replace Royal Navy aircraft carriers and strike aircraft may be falling "seriously behind schedule", a Commons committee warned.

The Defence Select Committee said that could leave the Royal Navy still using outdated equipment at "substantial extra cost".

The MPs say the UK may even have to consider scrapping its order with American suppliers for new carrier-based strike aircraft if agreement cannot be reached allowing the Navy to operate and service the jets independently.

The two new aircraft carriers and the 150 fighters to operate from them might also "crucially" not be delivered at the same time, added the MPs.

The delay is blamed on the failure to take key investment decisions, including setting a construction timetable and dates for the ships coming into service and the wrangle with US aircraft suppliers.

Committee chairman James Arbuthnot said: "The procurement of two aircraft carriers and the joint strike fighter aircraft to operate from them will provide the Royal Navy with a key capability for the future.

"These are two huge programmes, both in terms of their cost and their importance to the UK defence industry. On the carrier programme, there have been delays in taking the main investment decision, finalising the arrangement under which the programme is being run and making decisions on the optimum shipbuild strategy.

"Unfortunately, as with many other defence equipment programmes, our armed forces are likely to receive the equipment they need, and the capability they require to undertake their roles, later than originally planned.

"The Royal Navy may well be forced to run on less capable equipment, beyond the date when it was due to be withdrawn from service. The procurement of the joint strike fighter raises other crucial issues.

"The UK needs cast iron assurances from the US, its closest ally, that it will get all the information and technology it requires to maintained upgrade the aircraft independently. If such assurances are not obtained, the UK might have to consider whether to continue in the programme."

[Zim Flyer]

Unfortunately seeing New Labour in action over Light Rail and all their broken promises, I am now convinced they have very little ability in building anything.

I hope this report keeps the pressure on them, we shall have to wait and see.

[Monkey]

^ New Labour have built Heathrow Terminal 5 (largest construction project in Europe), Wembley Stadium (largest stadium in the world), the Channel Tunnel Rail Link (Britain's first 300km/h railway and first trunk line for nearly 100years), new Tube lines, huge DLR expansion, the expansion of the M25 to be Europe's widest motorway etc etc.... and that's just London/SE. Their record is much better than the Tories who invested very little in physical infrastructure.

[andysimo123]

Labour may have built more than most but they dont have a clue. They may have built alot but they are crap when it comes to big projects. They are always way over budget and take years and years because they spend 10 years working out how much its going to cost and is if worth it. Aka the Metrolink if they had given Manchester its money when they asked for it most of it would be built by now but because they have messed everyone around its now doubled in costs because they spent ages and £200 million on working out how much it would cost. Now its the stuff on the new Aircraft, they talk and talk and plan and plan but never do half of the stuff they say they will.

[Zim Flyer]

Originally Posted by Monkey

^ New Labour have built Heathrow Terminal 5 (largest construction project in Europe), Wembley Stadium (largest stadium in the world), the Channel Tunnel Rail Link (Britain's first 300km/h railway and first trunk line for nearly 100years), new Tube lines, huge DLR expansion, the expansion of the M25 to be Europe's widest motorway etc etc.... and that's just London/SE. Their record is much better than the Tories who invested very little in physical infrastructure.

What New Tube Lines, the last great extension was the Jubilee line by the conservatives and why are all these projects in the South East.

Re the DLR, the Lewisham extension was ordered by the Conservatives, Labour have given you one extension of just under 4 miles to London Airport (a whole 4 miles). The rest of the extensions have not been built yet.

Re the CTRL, Government approval was granted in 1996 by oh the Conservatives.

We could talk about the Millenium Dome, the cancellation of the project to build the new Royal Yacht, the cancellation of the Mancester Tram extension, the cancellation of the Leeds, Blackpool, Liverpool and Portsmouth Tram Projects. Compare this to the Manchester, Newcastle, Sheffield systems all built under, oh the Conservatives.

Now we are looking at their latest ongoing fuck up, the aircraft carriers.

The message is DO NOT VOTE NEW LABOUR, they will waste your money and spend it on bugger all. Labour may talk agood game but they are seriously hopeless at project delivery, mainly because most of them are all public sector employees or lawyers, with little or no business, construction or military experience.

[Zim Flyer]

Originally Posted by andysimo123

Labour may have built more than most but they dont have a clue. They may have built alot but they are crap when it comes to big projects. They are always way over budget and take years and years because they spend 10 years working out how much its going to cost and is if worth it. Aka the Metrolink if they had given Manchester its money when they asked for it most of it would be built by now but because they have messed everyone around its now doubled in costs because they spent ages and £200 million on working out how much it would cost. Now its the stuff on the new Aircraft, they talk and talk and plan and plan but never do half of the stuff they say they will.

well said andysimo.

[Bob]

Re the CTRL, Government approval was granted in 1996 by oh the Conservatives.

Approved by them yes, about a DECADE late. The channel tunnel had been designed, built and the French had their high speed rail already running. AND the Conservatives wouldn't pay a penny towards it's construction. One of the first things the Labour Government did was provide the necessary financial security for the CTRL construction to go ahead.

Labour have been pretty rubbish on infrastructure but that pails into insignificance compared to the Conservatives. I grew up under that bunch of half-wits and it was just an endless story of cuts and scrapping of projects. I remember BR being 'fattened up' with an extra £100m to make it a more attractive sale for privatisation. Privatisation that even the most ardent free market capitalists agree was a disaster. We were living in 'the great car economy' and 'a man in his 30's and on a bus can only be a failure'. Both quotes from Mrs.T.

[Zim Flyer]

Originally Posted by Bob

Approved by them yes, about a DECADE late. The channel tunnel had been designed, built and the French had their high speed rail already running. AND the Conservatives wouldn't pay a penny towards it's construction. One of the first things the Labour Government did was provide the necessary financial security for the CTRL construction to go ahead.

Labour have been pretty rubbish on infrastructure but that pails into insignificance compared to the Conservatives. I grew up under that bunch of half-wits and it was just an endless story of cuts and scrapping of projects. I remember BR being 'fattened up' with an extra £100m to make it a more attractive sale for privatisation. Privatisation that even the most ardent free market capitalists agree was a disaster. We were living in 'the great car economy' and 'a man in his 30's and on a bus can only be a failure'. Both quotes from Mrs.T.

For your information Bob, the CTRL is not the Channel Tunnel.

Like I said, get your sorry ass, up to the North and see what New Labour has done to Leeds, Liverpool and Manchester and even Blackpool as regards Light Rail.

Re rail privatisation it was a real pigs ear and the Tories really messed it up.

They should have copied the Japanese model of privatisation and sold it of into four regions and had each company promise to run a high level of unprofitable services on it's smaller lines whilst investing in the main ones.

That said look at the balls up of New Labour and the fiasco of Railtrack.

[Day Release]

New Labour New Disasters

[JackSwan]

why do you sound so shocked? there's even more scope to fudge a project such as this because it involves the expenditure of billions of pounds of public money on something most of the public are either opposed to or know nothing about. these ships will be built, but expect months/years of delays and millions of pounds of overruns.

[Manchester Planner]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4546742.stm

I hate New Labour - their lack of decision making is ruining our country's defences!!

[Bob]

Originally Posted by Zim Flyer

For your information Bob, the CTRL is not the Channel Tunnel.

er duh, I know. Read my paragraph again before you sling the insults.

That said look at the balls up of New Labour and the fiasco of Railtrack.

What fiasco? Bankrupt, corrupt entity bleeding cash from taxpayers and passengers is taken out of business and a not for profit trust, independent of Government is set up. Some middle England share owners lost a bit of money on what they felt should have been a dead cert. That's what the fuss was about.

I thought Nottingham now had a tram? Manchester and Liverpool at least have shiny new stations, Birmingham's is on its way and the West Coast Route Modernisation (the most complex infrastructure project in Europe) has been of some benefit to the North.

This is a battle of the bad vs the worst though. I just don't want anyone to think that voting Conservative would mean investment in infrastructure because they were AWFUL for nearly 20 years.

[JackSwan]

Originally Posted by Bob

What fiasco? Bankrupt, corrupt entity bleeding cash from taxpayers and passengers is taken out of business and a not for profit trust, independent of Government is set up. Some middle England share owners lost a bit of money on what they felt should have been a dead cert. That's what the fuss was about.

I don't want anyone to think that voting Conservative would mean investment in infrastructure because they were AWFUL for nearly 20 years.

bravo

[Day Release]

http://www.news.mod.uk/news_headline...wsItem_id=3878

[Zim Flyer]

Originally Posted by Bob

This is a battle of the bad vs the worst though. I just don't want anyone to think that voting Conservative would mean investment in infrastructure because they were AWFUL for nearly 20 years.

I have listed the light rail system built by the tories and forgot the Croydon system.

Would you like to defend New Labour on the Tram Systems on Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, Portsmouth and Blackpool?

I will keep banging this drum until Alistair Darling and New Labour are sent packing.

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by Zim Flyer

What New Tube Lines, the last great extension was the Jubilee line by the conservatives and why are all these projects in the South East.

I told you I was only referring to the projects in London/SE. The East London line is entirely New Labour.

Originally Posted by Zim Flyer

Re the DLR, the Lewisham extension was ordered by the Conservatives, Labour have given you one extension of just under 4 miles to London Airport (a whole 4 miles). The rest of the extensions have not been built yet.

Labour provided the money. The City Airport extension has been completed under Labour and the Woolwich Arsenal extension is now under construction.

Originally Posted by Zim Flyer

Re the CTRL, Government approval was granted in 1996 by oh the Conservatives.

Labour committed the money that enabled it to go ahead. Under the Tories the CTRL was stuck where Crossrail is now.

Originally Posted by Zim Flyer

We could talk about the Millenium Dome

The Millennium Dome is the most exciting piece of modern architecture in Britain with the possible exceptions of the Eden Project and London Eye.

Originally Posted by Zim Flyer

the cancellation of the project to build the new Royal Yacht

The Royal Yacht is not infrastructure and is a badly dated concept.

Originally Posted by Zim Flyer

the cancellation of the Mancester Tram extension, the cancellation of the Leeds, Blackpool, Liverpool and Portsmouth Tram Projects. Compare this to the Manchester, Newcastle, Sheffield systems all built under, oh the Conservatives.

And we can talk about the cancellation or underfunding of almost every type of infrastructure project under the Tories. Let's be clear: trains are better now, bus services are better now, roads are better now, aviation is better now. Every form of transport infrastructure has improved under Labour.

[Zim Flyer]

Originally Posted by Monkey

I told you I was only referring to the projects in London/SE. The East London line is entirely New Labour.Labour provided the money..

They haven't even built it yet and when it is built it won't be government money that builds it, they have merely given borrowing power to the mayor of london to build it.

Originally Posted by Monkey

The Royal Yacht is not infrastructure and is a badly dated concept..

The Royal Yacht is a floating business centre for UK plc (see my thread on it) and was a real missed oppertunity. Never mind about the ship building jobs a great Royal Yacht creates.

Originally Posted by Monkey

And we can talk about the cancellation or underfunding of almost every type of infrastructure project under the Tories. Let's be clear: trains are better now, bus services are better now, roads are better now, aviation is better now. Every form of transport infrastructure has improved under Labour.

No it isn't, Labour cancelled most of the road buiding programmes, the widening of the M6 for example only to reinstate them but this time the costs had massivly gone up, typical New Labour mismanagement.


I repeat: Liverpool, Leeds, Manchester, Portsmouth and Blackpool have all had their key essential Light Rail projects cancelled, would you like to talk about that?

[sjwmoore]

I thought this was about aircraft.... anyhow, I would declare myself as a Labour supporter (with reservations) due to the memory of the 80s and early 90s, it really was a diffent country. Britian really has modernised and improved scine Labour came to power, just look at our cities!!! When I first arrived in Manchester in 1986 it was crap, semi derelict, dirty and lifeless- the change now is remarkable

[Zim Flyer]

Originally Posted by sjwmoore

I thought this was about aircraft.... anyhow, I would declare myself as a Labour supporter (with reservations) due to the memory of the 80s and early 90s, it really was a diffent country. Britian really has modernised and improved scine Labour came to power, just look at our cities!!! When I first arrived in Manchester in 1986 it was crap, semi derelict, dirty and lifeless- the change now is remarkable

That's more to the excellent local Labour Council. The national Labour Government have really let Manchester down over the Big Bang.

[sjwmoore]

But its not just Manchester, look at Belfast (at war under the tories), Leeds, Birmingham, Liverpool- the money is flowing back into the cities, reversing the 40 year suburban trend. This can only happen in times of economic confidence!!