Orlando...a big city

[orlando2008]

When/how was it decided that Orlando was going to be a big city one day? If SR 408 and I-4 were planned before Disney came along, then they had to have some sort of plan that the city was going to be a big city. Did someone say "OK, we're going to be a metropolis one day. Let's plan to do that." (and not be like a modern day Ocala, for example).

[I-275westcoastfl]

Orlando my friend isnt a big city its more like a giant suburb with a few commercial plaza's and hotels though some new projects could be proving me wrong about it though most of orlando is fairly suburban. I think I-4 was there before disney or around the time of disney not sure about the other one.

Also Orlando isnt that far from being like Ocala just a bit more urbanized and has theme parks, its more expensive, bit older, and less rednecks. Not to be mean or anything i mean Orlando is nice and growing at an amazing rate but calling it a "big city" just isnt true because its not a big city yet and before people start flaming me Tampa is also the same way just a bigger downtown...for now.

[Jasonhouse]

One word...


Disney.

[O-town]

Originally Posted by I-275westcoastfl

Orlando my friend isnt a big city its more like a giant suburb with a few commercial plaza's and hotels though some new projects could be proving me wrong about it though most of orlando is fairly suburban. I think I-4 was there before disney or around the time of disney not sure about the other one.

Also Orlando isnt that far from being like Ocala just a bit more urbanized and has theme parks, its more expensive, bit older, and less rednecks. Not to be mean or anything i mean Orlando is nice and growing at an amazing rate but calling it a "big city" just isnt true because its not a big city yet and before people start flaming me Tampa is also the same way just a bigger downtown...for now.

I got news for you, Tampa does not have a bigger downtown than Orlando, and at the current rate, it never will. Bigger buildings do not equal a bigger downtown. If this wasn't apparent enough already, it will be clear as day when all the new development is finished. Orlando's skyline will be wiiiiide. Which isn't necessarily a good thing, but it proves my point.

Neither cities are "big". But they are both "major cities" that I can't believe you would compare to Ocala.

[Lakelander]

I-4 was planned as a highway to connect both coasts of Florida. During that time, the size of Orland had no to little impact on the location of the highway. At that time, it was just as important as Lakeland or Pensacola. However, once Disney and the other theme parks came along, what had historically been a mid-sized agricultural based city, quickly transformed into a metropolis. Unfortunately, the growth must have not been planned or the metro wouldn't be the largest one in the country with only one interstate.

[Jasonhouse]

I got news for you, Tampa does not have a bigger downtown than Orlando, and at the current rate, it never will. Bigger buildings do not equal a bigger downtown. If this wasn't apparent enough already, it will be clear as day when all the new development is finished. Orlando's skyline will be wiiiiide. Which isn't necessarily a good thing, but it proves my point.

^Yes, Orlando's DT is bigger in terms of square footage of developed office space (and who knows how long that will or won't last)... Like you, I think that's key, because Orlando's DT should also have the bigger local impact.

But, exactly how do "bigger buildings not equal a bigger DT"? I suspect that 99 out of 100 average people would say that DT Atlanta is a bigger skyline than DT Washington DC, when in fact DT DC has significantly more developed space.

Orlando's skyline may be "wide", but Tampa's has 6 buildings taller than the tallest in DT Orlando, with 5 more taller towers in the works or u/c that will add to that. (and no, that doesn't count the 4 towers that died in two recently dead projects)... Seen to scale side by side, I suspect that there would be little concensus among people viewing the two over which was bigger, looks better, had more presence or whatever...

[SkyDiveJunkee]

Jasonhouse, you'd have to be an idiot, or like 12, to think Atlanta is "bigger" than Washington DC because of its taller buildings. Again, Tampa's tall proposals are quite a bit less pedestrian friendly than Orlando's proposals but thats only because downtown Orlando is quite a bit more pedestrian friendly than downtown Tampa to begin with.

[Jasonhouse]

Originally Posted by SkyDiveJunkee

Jasonhouse, you'd have to be an idiot, or like 12, to think Atlanta is "bigger" than Washington DC because of its taller buildings.

Well, you just called about 90%+ of America idiots then.

If there's one thing that I've learned in the last 6 years of being a highrise fan/architecture student, it's that 'normal' people don't think about these issues like we do.

[jvance75]

"quite a bit less pedestrian friendly".....hearing that said about Tampa and not Orlando is hilarious...and how is taller less pedestrian friendly?

[I-275westcoastfl]

Originally Posted by SkyDiveJunkee

Jasonhouse, you'd have to be an idiot, or like 12, to think Atlanta is "bigger" than Washington DC because of its taller buildings. Again, Tampa's tall proposals are quite a bit less pedestrian friendly than Orlando's proposals but thats only because downtown Orlando is quite a bit more pedestrian friendly than downtown Tampa to begin with.

You are an idiot because one you cant read because he said skyline size not that its a bigger city and i think its kinda hard to miss but Atlanta's downtown skyline is bigger.

[SkyDiveJunkee]

Originally Posted by I-275westcoastfl

You are an idiot because one you cant read because he said skyline size not that its a bigger city and i think its kinda hard to miss but Atlanta's downtown skyline is bigger.

Clearly, my friend, you did not read my post in context to that which I was responding.

[SkyDiveJunkee]

Originally Posted by Jasonhouse

Well, you just called about 90%+ of America idiots then.

If there's on thing that I've learned in the last 6 years of being a highrise fan/architecture student, it's that 'normal' people don't think about these issues like we do.

Eh, unlikely. Atlanta has a negative reputation in this country based entirely on its spread-outness. If there's on thing that i've learned from being a skyscraper fan its that about 90% of Americans would not recognize 7 out of 10 US skylines.

[SkyDiveJunkee]

Originally Posted by jvance75

"quite a bit less pedestrian friendly".....hearing that said about Tampa and not Orlando is hilarious

I did not not say that about Orlando, but I'm pleased you got a laugh.

Originally Posted by jvance75

"..and how is taller less pedestrian friendly?

I didn't say it wasn't, but its not necessarily more pedestrian friendly, case in point, Tampa.

[jvance75]

"Tampa's tall proposals are quite a bit less pedestrian friendly than Orlando's proposals but thats only because downtown Orlando is quite a bit more pedestrian friendly than downtown Tampa to begin with"... didn't say anything on Orlando?

and these one line comments directed at Tampa without any explanation on why our core is less pedestrian friendly seem meaningless and unfounded...other than the fact we do have more downtown workers, and more office space, hence more cars and people leaving downtown. Orlando is more comparable to say a St. Petersburg, a city that is still larger than Orlando(surprised really)...but seems to have more of a residential/service industry base, less of a business atmosphere in its core like Tampa...we can talk about sq/ft based on office space, and in this state, its still Miami and Tampa as the 1 and 2 spot...

[SkyDiveJunkee]

Originally Posted by jvance75

"Tampa's tall proposals are quite a bit less pedestrian friendly than Orlando's proposals but thats only because downtown Orlando is quite a bit more pedestrian friendly than downtown Tampa to begin with"... didn't say anything on Orlando?

and these one line comments directed at Tampa without any explanation on why our core is less pedestrian friendly seem meaningless and unfounded...other than the fact we do have more downtown workers, and more office space, hence more cars and people leaving downtown. Orlando is more comparable to say a St. Petersburg, a city that is still larger than Orlando(surprised really)...but seems to have more of a residential/service industry base, less of a business atmosphere in its core like Tampa...we can talk about sq/ft based on office space, and in this state, its still Miami and Tampa as the 1 and 2 spot...

Again, I'll repeat myself in clearer terms. I did not say that Orlando is "pedestrian friendly" compared to other cities, but quite a bit more pedestrian friendly than Tampa. Get it now?

Further, downtown Orlando is not entirely residential/service oriented, its mostly office (not to mention the considerable amount of office space u/c and approved right now) but I suppose you would think so because Orlando does have a residential base larger than downtown Tampa supporting it.

And in terms of St. Petersburg, you are right, its also quite a bit more pedestrian friendly than Tampa.

Originally Posted by jvance75

"and these one line comments directed at Tampa without any explanation on why our core is less pedestrian friendly seem meaningless and unfounded......

If anything is unfounded it is this endless ranting about Orlando on this forum.

[jvance75]

You compared Tampa and Orlando, I brought in a city that seems more like Orlando for comparison, I know your comments were on the two cities alone(Tampa/Orlando). The comment on being surprised that the city of Orlando is still smaller in terms of population to St. Petersburg was just that, a surprise, I had expected it to surpass this city for the fact that St. Petersburg is stagnant at this point and is only experiencing redevelopment while Orlando has been annexing land.

I appreciate and enjoy Orlando all the time, I have actually driven past Disney on I-4 on the outer fringes of Orlando and into the actual metro more times than I can count and have friends that live in downtown and winter park, so I have full respect for the city, I know its much more than the mouse everyone claims Orlando is only known for. I am just giving my opinion like everyone else on these forums and use this more as a tool to learn more about metros/cities I have been to, lived in, or just have a sparked interest in at this point....the Florida forum in particular(I don't visit the other SSC forums on a daily basis) has shifted from information/opinion to more of the hometown ranting, but thats to be expected to a certain extent.

one more thing...SkyDive, if you are from Orlando, why not put that in your info...if anything I pay more attention to postings from the city I am interested in or the topic I am reading about more than anything, just because of the ranting and bias everyone has towards anything except their own city

One thing I would like to know, what companies have their headquarters/major operations in DT Orlando only...just wondering. Tampa was built on business, while Orlando was built on tourism, why neglect a cities past/present/future and strip Tampa of its identity while trying to bolster Orlando in every way possible, its called being a hypocrite, b*tching about the rants Orlando gets while doing the exact same thing to other cities. Of course that will cause conflict with a lot of people and just continue the bashing. Why not give facts, statistics, and articles to support whatever you would like to get across to others about Orlando instead....

[Jasonhouse]

Originally Posted by SkyDiveJunkee

Eh, unlikely. Atlanta has a negative reputation in this country based entirely on its spread-outness. If there's one thing that I've learned from being a skyscraper fan its that about 90% of Americans would not recognize 7 out of 10 US skylines.

All I was trying to say is that while Orlando's DT is in fact bigger than DT Tampa's, that doesn't mean that public opinion/perception will be that Orlando's skyline is bigger, better or whatever it is that O-town is trying to assert about Orlando over Tampa, as if it's some irrefutible fact that everyone knows about... IMO, they both basically suck, just for different reasons.



Why people like O-Town and I-275westcoast are trying to turn this thread into a kiddie pissing match is beyond me.

[Jasonhouse]

Originally Posted by jvance75

and these one line comments directed at Tampa without any explanation on why our core is less pedestrian friendly seem meaningless and unfounded...other than the fact we do have more downtown workers, and more office space, hence more cars and people leaving downtown. Orlando is more comparable to say a St. Petersburg, a city that is still larger than Orlando(surprised really)...but seems to have more of a residential/service industry base, less of a business atmosphere in its core like Tampa...we can talk about sq/ft based on office space, and in this state, its still Miami and Tampa as the 1 and 2 spot...

While I'm also highly puzzled by the remark that Tampa's new projects are somehow less ped friendly than Orlando's (an objective explanation of how that conclusion was derived would be great), I must remark that Orlando's DT has more office space than DT Tampa... I don't know if it has more total square footage (for all uses), though I assume that it does...

I think the #1 and #2 office markets in the state are something like DT Jax and Westshore in Tampa... DT Tampa is more like #6, or lower.

[jvance75]

I was just referring to the CBD...and yes, as of late Q1 of 2004 Orlando did surpass Tampa and then Miami later that year in terms of office space in downtown only....

Q2' 05 Link

2004 Total

CBD(Q2'05) (last 04' report)
Jacksonville - 11,741,000 (11,741,000)
Orlando - 10,242,000 (8,176,000)
Miami - 8,537,000 (8,844,000)
Tampa - 7,864,000 (7,856,000)

Suburban
Miami - 62,908,000 (62,700,000)
Tampa - 59,459,000 (61,401,000) --?
Orlando - 47,223,000 (40,914,000)
Jacksonville - 21,337,000 (21,040,000)

[MIAballinboi]

^thats interesting, orlando has more office space downtown than miami.