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Old October 7th, 2010, 02:46 AM   #2501
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I know where I'd rather live, the "cluttered" area. You don't have to spend a lot of time riding the elevator down to leave the building, can cross the street without waiting for a red light, can visit a cheap neighborhood restaurant or coffee shop and eat street food. Those dense areas have a vibrant street life whereas the highrise district is dead outside the buildings. How many street level restaurants are there? How many people selling food on the street? How much more does food and drink cost?
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Old October 7th, 2010, 07:59 AM   #2502
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There's the same issue in Shenzhen, as I suspect throughout China.

To those that have never been to China: those messy "villages" are full of life - a dense amalgamation of people filled with restaurants, shops, hair salons, massage parlors, and street vendors. While the government shuffles money around via its state-owned enterprises into grandiose real estate projects that we drool over here at SCC, the villages are intensely capitalistic. They are fiercely entrepreneurial.

And year over year, the 'villages' develop. They get richer. Restaurants and shops renovate, businesses expand, and the beggars are replaced by peddlers. It is this kind of economic development that's sustainable.

Yet the city planners have a different vision. China's city builders are very much in the mold of Robert Moses. They seem to have a genuine distaste of the 'ugliness' of the villages and vastly prefer their vision of gleaming skyscrapers, international-style malls, and wide streets. Hell, Shenzhen's development motto is "urbanism without density".

The CBD's developed by the master planners are... easy on the camera, but of questionable utility. At best, they represent poor planning; at worst, they represent a misallocation of capital of massive proportions.

[/wet blanket]

Last edited by mthmchris; October 7th, 2010 at 08:28 AM.
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Old October 7th, 2010, 11:51 AM   #2503
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Surely the most beautiful city in China
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Old October 7th, 2010, 12:08 PM   #2504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geography View Post
I know where I'd rather live, the "cluttered" area. You don't have to spend a lot of time riding the elevator down to leave the building, can cross the street without waiting for a red light, can visit a cheap neighborhood restaurant or coffee shop and eat street food. Those dense areas have a vibrant street life whereas the highrise district is dead outside the buildings. How many street level restaurants are there? How many people selling food on the street? How much more does food and drink cost?
Zhujiang New Town is a U/C zone. The streets are not full of retail yet since the dust has not settled. The waterfront section is almost done and is a mix of parks, cultural facilities, and wide sidewalks - a big leisure area.
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Old October 7th, 2010, 12:16 PM   #2505
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No matter how Pudong-like these CBDs get, i really hope that they have more 'beijing road' like areas in all cities where the food and shopping is good and affordable. I don't really like all the branded shops floating around to make the area look 'posh', really silly. It doesn't have to be in the CBD, but somewhere close to it would be nice. It gives it a lively feeling yet having a good looking skyline.
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Old October 8th, 2010, 06:27 AM   #2506
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Zhujiang New Town is a U/C zone. The streets are not full of retail yet since the dust has not settled. The waterfront section is almost done and is a mix of parks, cultural facilities, and wide sidewalks - a big leisure area.
Your not going to get much street life with expensive office/residential towers and 6 lanes streets right through the middle. I see all sorts of high end office/residential/retail going up in China, yet where is the development for the middle/lower class who assuredly make up the majority of the population. Those would be interesting to see.
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Old October 9th, 2010, 10:36 AM   #2507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geography View Post
I know where I'd rather live, the "cluttered" area. You don't have to spend a lot of time riding the elevator down to leave the building, can cross the street without waiting for a red light, can visit a cheap neighborhood restaurant or coffee shop and eat street food. Those dense areas have a vibrant street life whereas the highrise district is dead outside the buildings. How many street level restaurants are there? How many people selling food on the street? How much more does food and drink cost?
I kinda agree with what you say, but you can't say this about that specific block seen on the picture. Have you been there? I walked next to it not later than today and trust me, no one wouldn't wish to live there. I wouldn't live there for free and I don't have high comfort requirements. This area is really dirty and in a terrible shape, buildings stand 2 meters next to each other which doesn't let any light enter the rooms.

There are other old residential block in western historical Guangzhou such as Xuexiu and Liwan districts that really deserve to be preserved because of their historical value and architecture. But the block on the picture is nothing more than a slum. There is not one reason to keep such miserable buildings in a modern city that Guangzhou is becoming.
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Old October 9th, 2010, 10:24 PM   #2508
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Originally Posted by Shiruba View Post
I kinda agree with what you say, but you can't say this about that specific block seen on the picture. Have you been there? I walked next to it not later than today and trust me, no one wouldn't wish to live there. I wouldn't live there for free and I don't have high comfort requirements. This area is really dirty and in a terrible shape, buildings stand 2 meters next to each other which doesn't let any light enter the rooms.

There are other old residential block in western historical Guangzhou such as Xuexiu and Liwan districts that really deserve to be preserved because of their historical value and architecture. But the block on the picture is nothing more than a slum. There is not one reason to keep such miserable buildings in a modern city that Guangzhou is becoming.
So what you're saying is the place needs cleaning up and bringing up to standard.

But what will happen of course is that they'll get bulldozed and replaced by the sort of stuff on the left of shot... tower blocks between motorways. I seriously wonder what you're aspiring to? Are you believing the marketing hype? I'd seriously rather live in the 'slum'. Europe is filled with these sorts of places that with the coming of wealth have been transformed into the most desirable places to live. Europe also has its fair share of places where the wrecking balls have come in, mainly during the 50s and 60s, to bring the 'modern city' dream that you seem to want and it's never worked. It doesn't work because in the long term, it isn't as human.

The problem is that like the song says, you'll only realise what you've lost when it's gone... so I sense I won't persuade you.
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Old October 9th, 2010, 11:39 PM   #2509
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it's 15km from the "center" of Guangzhou, they are just urbanized rural villages in the way of a skyscraper development, if you check Google Earth, the center of Guangzhou is mostly in that style and little has been demolished
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Old October 10th, 2010, 12:20 AM   #2510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capslock View Post
So what you're saying is the place needs cleaning up and bringing up to standard.

But what will happen of course is that they'll get bulldozed and replaced by the sort of stuff on the left of shot... tower blocks between motorways. I seriously wonder what you're aspiring to? Are you believing the marketing hype? I'd seriously rather live in the 'slum'. Europe is filled with these sorts of places that with the coming of wealth have been transformed into the most desirable places to live. Europe also has its fair share of places where the wrecking balls have come in, mainly during the 50s and 60s, to bring the 'modern city' dream that you seem to want and it's never worked. It doesn't work because in the long term, it isn't as human.

The problem is that like the song says, you'll only realise what you've lost when it's gone... so I sense I won't persuade you.
You shouldn't judge me so quickly. I share your opinion but the difference between me and you is that I saw that block and according to your comment I'm sure you didn't. I don't like those wide roads neither but they are less bad then what I saw there today. I'm living in an old low-rise area (no elevator, shops at street level) and I love it. Do not associate so easily popular with valuable.
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Old October 14th, 2010, 03:42 PM   #2511
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Awesome building. BTW, today's Guangzhou has really excellent skyline.
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Old October 14th, 2010, 04:42 PM   #2512
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Old October 14th, 2010, 05:25 PM   #2513
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awh i wish i could be there to see it with my own eyes
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Old October 14th, 2010, 05:53 PM   #2514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeoplesPoster View Post
Your not going to get much street life with expensive office/residential towers and 6 lanes streets right through the middle. I see all sorts of high end office/residential/retail going up in China, yet where is the development for the middle/lower class who assuredly make up the majority of the population. Those would be interesting to see.
A new concept is starting in some US cities. Here's an example of one, it's called the Epi-center. A group of high rise office buildings, hotels, and condos with 'street-style' business on the lowest levels. The entrance to the Aloft hotel is on the 5th floor, for example.

http://epicentrenc.com/

The lighting on the TV tower is AWESOME!
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Old October 15th, 2010, 05:56 AM   #2515
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伟大祖国终于扬眉吐气啦。。。。
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Old October 15th, 2010, 06:15 AM   #2516
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Posted by ewarld, however photos originate from Poco.cn





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Old October 17th, 2010, 08:44 PM   #2517
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Old October 17th, 2010, 09:01 PM   #2518
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Wow, the park space has really come along. Looks great!

I even like the signage at the top of the West Tower. The whole area has really transformed nicely.
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Old October 17th, 2010, 09:24 PM   #2519
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The city has very much pollution, but so does all cities in China
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Old October 17th, 2010, 09:42 PM   #2520
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Are those photos glitched for everyone else, or just me?
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