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Old June 9th, 2007, 04:23 AM   #321
Bartolo
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I have never driven through a CL interchange. In Ontario they don't exist, well they do, but there are very very few, and when new interchanges are made they are made to Parclo's. And most CL's here are being changed over to parclo's. One of the worst interchanges ive been on though is in Fredericton, NB between #8 and #7 http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=45...&t=k&z=16&om=1
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Old June 9th, 2007, 08:49 AM   #322
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Of course, there are cities that built interchanges based on a certain traffic level that existed at the time of construction. Very short-sided for sure, but reality in many cities, including Seattle. While that city is slowly trying to improve and re-build these interchanges, still many exist. For example, you still see a lot of off-ramp/on-ramp duplicate single lanes on Seattle freeways. Just an example of how highway construction must be built for future needs, not current needs. Seattle doesn't seem to undertand this concept, even with new and projected designs!...how short-sided!

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Old June 9th, 2007, 10:02 AM   #323
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Almost all access-controlled interchanges and even non-access controlled road interchanges are CLOVERLEAVES here.
I don't understand why, this cloverleaf between an arterial road and a freeway just got reconstructed from a space saving cloverleaf to... ANOTHER CLOVERLEAF. W.T.F.
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Old June 9th, 2007, 11:13 AM   #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotrfan55345 View Post
Almost all access-controlled interchanges and even non-access controlled road interchanges are CLOVERLEAVES here.
I saw that a lot in Spain yeah. Quite a luxury in Dutch view, where we only have diamond exits.

Spain has much better infrastructure anyway.
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Old June 9th, 2007, 11:18 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by fetg_ View Post
Cloverleafs is IMO the most rational intersection. It only requires one single bridge and can handle more traffic than any bridge based roundabout, while it's a lot cheaper to build. There's two main arguments against cloverleafs.
Cloverleaf was very rational in the 1970' but it can be used now: it's too dangerous because theire is a way out just after an entry.
Half stack is more rational. Full stack is the best intersection but it's a bit expensive.
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Old June 9th, 2007, 02:10 PM   #326
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The loops on trumpets cover a greater distance than on cloverleafs. To get them that large on cloverleafs would require an unreasonable amount of space. Not only that, but trumpets are not as great an idea in cities due to once again, the space concern.
Really? I compared the diameter of some trumpets and CLs and found out that the loops diameter is pretty much similar. Point is that traffic do the same 270 degree turn in both loops.

Well you're right that it's no good idea to build a cloverleaf in areas where land is expensive. But stack interchanges consumes a lot space too, if not more. The best alternative for inner-cities is British roundabout interchanges. They are small, can handle more traffic than SPUIs and does not require any traffic lights.

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Originally Posted by Bartolo View Post
I have never driven through a CL interchange. In Ontario they don't exist, well they do, but there are very very few, and when new interchanges are made they are made to Parclo's. And most CL's here are being changed over to parclo's. One of the worst interchanges ive been on though is in Fredericton, NB between #8 and #7 http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=45...&t=k&z=16&om=1
I can't see any advantage for Parclos, other than that it's cheaper to build and that it's eliminating weaving. However, is weaving really that big issue? How can replacing weaving with putting two traffic lights in the interchange be any good. Can someone explain that? Is there some study that has compared CLs with Parclos?
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Old June 9th, 2007, 03:26 PM   #327
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What about this:


It has sharp curves, so it's not feasable on M-ways, but it can be implemented in congested cities. The design saves space and eliminate weaving, pretty much. The disadvantage is the tight curves, which is normal in urban environments.

I havn't seen anyone like that, tough it's more similar to old style CLs than to modern.

The out-lane can end before the inlane. Therefore there will be no weaving.
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Old June 9th, 2007, 04:11 PM   #328
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Cloverleaf without weaving : the Frankfurter Kreuz

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Old June 9th, 2007, 09:19 PM   #329
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What are you talking about, traffic lights r needed and better than having the weaving, in a parclo, a parclo is a partial cloverleaf. This is a parclo between highway 25 and highway 401. http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=43...&t=k&z=17&om=1
and this is a parclo between the 410 and 407 http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&t=k&o...,0.028667&z=16
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Old June 9th, 2007, 11:58 PM   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartolo View Post
What are you talking about, traffic lights r needed and better than having the weaving, in a parclo, a parclo is a partial cloverleaf. This is a parclo between highway 25 and highway 401. http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=43...&t=k&z=17&om=1
and this is a parclo between the 410 and 407 http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&t=k&o...,0.028667&z=16
Stopping traffic with red lights does is one of the worst way of eliminating weaving (which is exaggerated). That's because most of the traffic stay on their lines. One car on a parclo can stop like 5-20 cars/trucks just because the lack of loops. Then even a CL without C/Ds is a better alternative.

Is there any data that proves that parclos is better in some cases?
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Old June 10th, 2007, 06:02 AM   #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartolo View Post
What are you talking about, traffic lights r needed and better than having the weaving, in a parclo, a parclo is a partial cloverleaf. This is a parclo between highway 25 and highway 401. http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=43...&t=k&z=17&om=1
and this is a parclo between the 410 and 407 http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&t=k&o...,0.028667&z=16
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the context I've seen the term parclo refers to service (i.e. freeway-to-not-freeway) interchanges, and generally means a souped-up diamond interchange. Therefore, the one at 410 and 407 isn't what's properly called a parclo (I'd call it a half stack, and to me it looks like a dandy interchange for that location). The one at 25 and 401 is a proper parclo.

Here's a parclo on GA 120 at I-75 near Atlanta that has two loop ramps yet still needs a CD to avoid weaving on the freeway: http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&ll=33.941295,-84.504733&spn=0.004201,0.009484&t=k&z=16&om=0. It was built that way because there was plenty of undeveloped land on the east side of I-75, and weaving isn't much of a problem because eastbound to northbound traffic is very light. Only one traffic signal is needed, which is a plus. The bridge over I-75 was widened, but the original structure c. 1965 or so remains; the CD was placed between the end bent and the abutment where a paved sloped had been before, so the whole thing was comparatively cheap. All in all not a bad interchange; it jams up at rush hour, but no worse than everything else in Atlanta.
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Old July 1st, 2007, 03:31 AM   #332
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I just wanted sa, that only one motorway in bulgaria can be qualified as Autobahn, you know that Germany was the develooper of the real Autobahn and only the Struma Autobahn can wear the name Autobahn :p:p:p:p:p
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Old July 1st, 2007, 03:40 AM   #333
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Bulgarian guys are after you!
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Old July 1st, 2007, 05:04 AM   #334
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I don't have any pictures from it myself, but south of Rotterdam we have an very wide and busy stretch of freeway in the Netherlands where our A15 and A16 roads run combined. I founds these pics on autosnelwegen.nl





Edit: Thanks Chris. Problem solved now.
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Old July 1st, 2007, 02:21 PM   #335
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You can't deeplink from autosnelwegen.nl
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Old July 3rd, 2007, 04:28 AM   #336
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They may all look amazing from the air, but they can definetely make a neighborhood look like shit.....
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Old July 3rd, 2007, 05:27 AM   #337
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It's funny how Edmonton got rid of the Rathole by the Alberta Legislature to only get the Ratmaze, an interchange at Anthony Henday and Queen Elizabeth II. It's the only 3-stack we've got in this city.
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Old July 3rd, 2007, 09:36 PM   #338
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They may all look amazing from the air, but they can definetely make a neighborhood look like shit.....
Without the interchange it would be even shittier, jammed roads all day long.
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Old July 4th, 2007, 04:00 AM   #339
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I think it has 18 lanes but i'm not sure
Yes, Ian, it has 18 lanes, you can count them right here:



'Acceso Norte' Highway ('Northern Access' Highway), Buenos Aires. With 18 lanes is the widest highway in Argentina
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Old July 4th, 2007, 08:40 AM   #340
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Near Atlanta is a freeway with 8 lanes in one direction in one piece. (no parallel roads). You need a telescope to see the exit signage
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