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Old January 20th, 2009, 12:26 AM   #1021
wdw35
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Old January 20th, 2009, 12:30 PM   #1022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdw35 View Post
Ummm... huh?
IMO there's 1 (one) thing to support your statement: the TGV.
OK, even though I'm not a francophile (actually I don't quite like them), I've always admired their passion for "grand projects": the TGV, the Concorde (think for one second: isn't it ironic that the fastest plane in commercial service today is slower than 30 years ago? - since Concorde is not in com service anymore), their network of nuclear powerplants etc.

But to say that the EU has much more to offer in transportation infra than US is... strange.
What, what is it?
Mass transit? C'mon, is at the expense at auto users. It's not normal to see an 8-lane freway (2x4) as an oddity - but it is in the EU.
Tunnels on freeways with 20k+ AADT that are still 2x1??
Congested airports?
It's not just a few LGVs but the whole range of rail-bound transportation systems. From small town trams to full developed metro systems and a railway network that connects to almost every town.

International airports in DFW, Houston and even Los Angeles are not connected to any rail network. I can't find an airport of similar size in Europe that has such limited transport links.

Even roads in Europe are better equipped. Reliable surface marking and proper directional signs on every road get them the upper hand.
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Old January 20th, 2009, 02:04 PM   #1023
Majestic
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wdw35: Do you measure the level of development of infrastructure only by capacity, size and amount of concrete? If so, then you are probably right about US infrastructure. Hell, you could even succesfully claim it is over-developed.

However, when you consider coherence, efficiency and diversification well, that's another kettle of fish. Take ground transportation for instance. USA has definitely massive road and highways network, no doubt. Yet when it comes to quality, European (especially in Western Europe) roads usually have better design and higher standard.

Then it comes to accessibility. USA is definitely car-orientated creating a huge unbalance between cars and other means of transport. I mean, in most places, if you don't have a car, you're practically immobile. Public transport usually operates solely within big urban areas and even there it doesn't provide you with a lot of options. In Europe all means of transport are fairly balanced which gives you a lot of choices whether you prefer train, bus or plane. You can get almost everywhere without necessity to use a car. It's fair to say transport network here is much denser and more accessible.

Coherence. As flierfy pointed out, some US int'l airports are not connected to rail network. It goes beyond this. In Europe you can easily change between different means of transport in designated hubs, which in USA is possible again in big cities only.

European infrastructure might be less impressive and spectacular than the US one, but it's definitely not lame.
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Old January 20th, 2009, 02:15 PM   #1024
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One have to consider most rural parts of the U.S. are sparsely populated and distances are much bigger than in most European rural areas. European countries are also different from eachother. For instance the mass construction of motorways in Spain is quite different compared to the no-build policy Belgium, the Netherlands and the UK have.
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Old January 20th, 2009, 03:48 PM   #1025
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Title: Stack interchanges in the United States
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Old January 20th, 2009, 06:43 PM   #1026
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Amen. I don't understand why this and parallel threads have been sloping toward US-versus-EU jingoism--I come here to get away from that sort of thing.
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Old January 21st, 2009, 05:09 PM   #1027
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Because some people can't resist to dispraise Europe.
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Old January 21st, 2009, 11:15 PM   #1028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
Because some people can't resist to dispraise Europe.
You've been the instigator most of the time. The guy who made that comment is European, and was commenting on what he likes about the US compared to Europe, whose road infrastructure he feels is deficient, but within the context of the thread as a whole. You go send it off in tangent based on rail, which is not pertinent to the thread at hand. It has nothing to do with disparagement of either the US or European countries, it has everything to do with not commenting on the thread at hand.

Besides, if I want to hear a European disparage the US transportation system (which seems to be the only way you can defend your continent), I'll listen to Alex Von Konigsberg, because as much as his opinions run contrary to mine, he actually lives here in the US and knows what he's talking about. I'd be shocked if you had actually spent any appreciable time in the US, or thought about why things are done here the way they are.

@J N Winkler... you've been here long enough that you know eventually some idiot nationalist/continentalist is going to get on and bash some other country. Just remember that if you're older than 20, you're probably older than 60% of everyone who has ever posted on this site. Considering your past posts and credentials, it's obvious that you're smarter than 99% of them.
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Old January 22nd, 2009, 03:12 AM   #1029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADCS View Post
You've been the instigator most of the time. The guy who made that comment is European, and was commenting on what he likes about the US compared to Europe, whose road infrastructure he feels is deficient, but within the context of the thread as a whole. You go send it off in tangent based on rail, which is not pertinent to the thread at hand. It has nothing to do with disparagement of either the US or European countries, it has everything to do with not commenting on the thread at hand.
If you had read carefully you would have noticed that he/she made a general depreciative comment on European infrastructure that caught not only my eyes. It gives me as anyone else the right to rectify this even if it goes beyond the subject of this thread and requires to point to some weaknesses of American transport infrastructure. And concerning the latter I'm convinced you can stand a fair comparison.
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Last edited by flierfy; January 22nd, 2009 at 03:16 AM. Reason: erasing spelling mistakes
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Old January 23rd, 2009, 05:38 AM   #1030
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Proposed replacement for the I-84/rt-8 interchange in Waterbury,CT.

Current interchange.

Both the current and proposed have 4 levels, but the proposed one more closely resembles the 'ideal' stack interchange-no left exits and entrances for one thing.
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Old January 23rd, 2009, 10:23 AM   #1031
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I didn't have a chance to reply to some of some statements above, so here goes, especially for you fierfly.

Mass Transit is INDUCED demand.

Please read this again:

MASS TRANSIT IS INDUCED DEMAND!

Specifically is induced by chronic underinvestment in private ground transportation infrastructure (i.e. roads) and the taxation to death of vehicles and gasoline.
If the EU governments would do the opposite, and we would have nice, wide, cheap to use freeways, no one in their right mind would choose mass transit.

For ground transportation, mass transit is not needed. Air transport is a different matter - and mass transit is still needed and used by most of us (except the ones that own private jets), but this is essentially for technological not for policy reasons.

Of course, for private ground transportation to work, there should be an effort to diversify travel times. People should not all go at the same place at the same time. It's highly inefficient for all people to work (roughly) from 9 to 5 (in most of the EU, most of them will do 4-6 hours of work - if in the private sector - or 2-5 hours of actual work - if in the public sector - anyways).
So decision makers but also the simple users should try to plan their trips (or the trips they influence, for the decision makers) such that infra capacity is used wisely.

So no, please don't tell me about the "nice" EU's air-rail connections because I don't f*cking want them. I once flew on an internal US flight. You can't imagine how nice it was to drive my car to the airport's long term parking, leave it there, get to the gate 15 mins before the take off, fly, come back, pick up the car and return home.


I will tell you one last thing: In the late eighties the centrally planned govt in Romania decided that it would be more efficient (maybe a EU govt will tell you today it would be more environmentally friendly) for people in big cities to eat together in huge canteens, instead of eating at home.

They even started and managed to build in Bucharest 6 or so huge structures (called colloquially "famine circuses").
Probably the next step would have been reducing food supply in stores and taxing it to death, and making people feel guilty for eating at home, or making people blabber about how much more env. friendly is to eat in the canteen, or how much better our cities are suited for this time of eating pattern.
Also, you would prolly read articles in the newspapers about a new, highly functional, and architecturally spectacular canteen structure that was opened just yesterday, or about how the personnel serving food in another canteen recently broke the record for the serving speed of food to users.

Fortunately the famine circuses never became operational, because the communist regime fell in December '89. At least in Romania.

Edit: PS: In the mid nineties, one of the famine circuses (after staying unfinished and abandoned for years) was acquired by a private investor and became the first mall in Bucharest (http://www.bucurestimall.com.ro/). Ironic, isn't it.

Last edited by wdw35; January 23rd, 2009 at 10:33 AM.
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Old January 23rd, 2009, 11:47 AM   #1032
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I like you train of thought
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Old January 25th, 2009, 09:33 AM   #1033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rejow View Post
this one in Germany near Wurzburg looks pretty cool, although its unfinished. With A41 on the fourth level it can be really massive
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=k&...4,0.05579&z=15
This is the A-3/A-81 (the A-3 runs east-west, the A-81 to the south). Where is/was A-81 planned to go to the north? Are these plans still active?

Mike
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Old January 25th, 2009, 09:59 AM   #1034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgk920 View Post
This is the A-3/A-81 (the A-3 runs east-west, the A-81 to the south). Where is/was A-81 planned to go to the north? Are these plans still active?

Mike
It looks like it might have been intended to create a ring road of Würzburg, but that's just a guess.
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Old February 19th, 2009, 11:37 PM   #1035
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Cambridge, Ohio

I don't know if it still is, but I know that the I-70/I-77 interchange in Cambridge, Ohio was the largest intersection in the world. I don't get where people are saying "this is the busiest" because that doesn't answer the question. I know this doesn't look that big, but really, it's pretty big.

It was declared by the Ohio Department of Transportation as the largest intersection in the world in the 60's.

By the way, I just found this site and I think I'm in love.
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Old February 20th, 2009, 01:08 AM   #1036
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If we're talking about biggest interchange by area, then there would be several contenders. Statelypenguin, how wide/long is the I-70/77 interchange?

Three that I would suggest from the UK are:

The M27/M3 interchange outside Southampton

The M6/M6Toll/M42/A446 interchange which takes up a lot of Eastern Birmingham

The M60/M61/A666/A580 interchange in Western Manchester

You might also want to check out this thread.
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Old April 8th, 2009, 10:11 AM   #1037
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I would put Atlanta's Spaghetti Junction on there. Also, there are plans for the interchange of GA 400 and I-285 north of Atlanta to be rebuilt as a 6 level stack with the highest level around 135 feet. Seems crazy to me!!!
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Old April 8th, 2009, 07:40 PM   #1038
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post
Some Milano big ones

[IMG]http://i33.************/2n89aoh.jpg[/IMG]

[IM G]http://i38.************/a0vvhh.jpg[/IMG]

[IM G]http://i37.************/330w7d4.jpg[/IMG]

[IM G]http://i34.************/1znscci.jpg[/IMG]
In fairness though, what a stupid place for a toll booth
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Old April 8th, 2009, 08:15 PM   #1039
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Why?
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Old April 9th, 2009, 04:09 PM   #1040
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Do they toll darker or lighter road?

It is actually 3 sets of tolls... wonder why?
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