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Old June 23rd, 2009, 11:17 AM   #201
Tiaren
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miau View Post
I think it looks better without the spires. The old design was way to overladen with kitsch. The unfinished reconstruction points out the real proportions... (I'm going to get killed by Erbse and other nostalgics for this statement )
I'm gonna kill you! Wuaaaaaaaargh!!!111eleven

Of course the original domes and spires were the best...BUT
Actually, I think they did a very good job with the new dome. It was even more inspired by St. Peters in Rome. Though I think the lantern on top of the dome is a little too small.
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Old June 23rd, 2009, 05:18 PM   #202
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I think the entire building is a mess. The inside looks alright but the facade...horrible. Wish they had torn it down instead of the palace.
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Old June 23rd, 2009, 11:08 PM   #203
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what I dont like is the rotten color of the builiding ... the old castle had the same, btw
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Old June 24th, 2009, 12:33 AM   #204
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Thanks for posting this information. Very informative.
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Old July 17th, 2009, 02:43 AM   #205
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I do not understand why they tore the Palast down, it had a versatility in purpose that the Prussian palace cannot possibly have. The Palast, in contradistinction is a building that is more open to the public than the palace. Never-mind the fact that it was the Prussian monarchy that engaged in genocide in Africa, and was one of the main protagonists of WWI and this is what we are validating? In addition, many East Germans find it offensive that what they built has been devalorized and mocked at by Westerners. Although the Palast is gone now forever, I do not think it speaks well for Germany that it so conveniently chooses to re-build a building that was at the heart of imperialist terror.
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Old July 17th, 2009, 06:44 AM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico_Uru View Post
I do not understand why they tore the Palast down, it had a versatility in purpose that the Prussian palace cannot possibly have.
A couple of answers:
* It was horrible
* It was ugly
* It was hated
* It was a blight on the landscape
* It was full of aspestos
* It was horrible (oh, I said that)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico_Uru View Post
The Palast, in contradistinction is a building that is more open to the public than the palace.
I don't know about that. The Palast wasn't exactly a free for all for anyone to walk in 24/7 where ever they liked. Besides, I'd rather see a closed off beautiful building and a hidious one which I can enter every now and again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico_Uru View Post
Never-mind the fact that it was the Prussian monarchy that engaged in genocide in Africa, and was one of the main protagonists of WWI and this is what we are validating?
Never mind the Palast was created by a communist dictatorship that built a wall around the city executing anyone who tried to leave, and who did try to leave because their stupid concept of communist society was a complete failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico_Uru View Post
In addition, many East Germans find it offensive that what they built has been devalorized and mocked at by Westerners.
Do something stupid, expect to get mocked.

Build something ugly, expect to get mocked.

Life can be hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico_Uru View Post
Although the Palast is gone now forever, I do not think it speaks well for Germany that it so conveniently chooses to re-build a building that was at the heart of imperialist terror.
There is far less politics involved in this as you seem to suspect. The old palace was beautiful which is why many people want it back. They don't think about the wonderful times of the "imperialist terror", just as many of the die hard communists want a return of communism. They also don't think of the horrors and terrors that communisim forced onto so many people, but more of the fact they didn't have to work and could bludge all day.
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Old July 17th, 2009, 07:32 AM   #207
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A couple of answers:
* It was horrible
* It was ugly
* It was hated
* It was a blight on the landscape
* It was full of aspestos
* It was horrible (oh, I said that)


Those are all value-judgments that cannot be quantified-except for the asbestos, which can be and was removed. I do not agree with any of the other statements, it was not hated by all, there was a vocal movement to prevent its destruction. Therefore, we will never agree about this, let us focus rather on the historical and political importance of the two buildings.

I don't know about that. The Palast wasn't exactly a free for all for anyone to walk in 24/7 where ever they liked. Besides, I'd rather see a closed off beautiful building and a hidious one which I can enter every now and again.

When the Palast was in operation, it was a public building meant to be open to all citizens of the DDR. The building, in proposals to save the building, was to be even more inclusive and multipurpose, indeed in the last years of the building it was an amazing place to have art exhibitions. The Prussian palace, by definition, is exclusionary. This is what we want to recreate, a building that represents avatistic notions of inherited privilege, a regime that was less democratic than the DDR, hyper-militarized and institutionally racist? The DDR was no saint, but it was a more humane regime than Kaiser's Germany that sent millions of Germans to die on the battlefield for the regimes imperialist and racist notions of German hegemony. Again, if you are going to answer to this, I do not want to hear your 'its ugly, har har' comment, its immaterial b/c I do not think it was ugly and you aren't going to convince me otherwise.

Never mind the Palast was created by a communist dictatorship that built a wall around the city executing anyone who tried to leave, and who did try to leave because their stupid concept of communist society was a complete failure.

Sounds like Skid Row in the US...anyways, no one is denying the regime of the DDR was not a human rights paradise. However, in its defence it had ample social programs that did make life better there than anywhere else except the most advanced capitalist states, and no East German was homeless, unemployed, or went hungry...standards that we are clearly lacking in our capitalist societies. Having talked to East Germans, they do recognize the errors of the regime, but they also recognize that there were positives, i.e. a greater sense of community. Compare that record to the Kaiser's regime of imperialism, suppression of workers, wonton murder of millions, dispossession and genocidal acts of savagery in Africa, the use of chemical weaponry against allied troops, institutionalized rape in the occupied territories, institutionalized racism...yet this is to be glorified and rebuilt in the centre of Berlin! Say what you will about the DDR, but it did not even come CLOSE to the barbarity of the Prussian regime. I hope you enjoy defending that record.

There is far less politics involved in this as you seem to suspect. The old palace was beautiful which is why many people want it back. They don't think about the wonderful times of the "imperialist terror", just as many of the die hard communists want a return of communism. They also don't think of the horrors and terrors that communisim forced onto so many people, but more of the fact they didn't have to work and could bludge all day.

I do not care what most people think, assuming people even think that, or care. The point is greater than what some consumer in a mall thinks, this is about what is valued in contemporary Germany. The values of the elites who have the political clout and capital to make these decisions and enforce them is troubling to say the least. If you think they are putting this relic from a tyrannical past up just because it looks nice, you are deep in the fog of ideological mystification my friend.
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Last edited by Nico_Uru; July 17th, 2009 at 07:38 AM.
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Old July 17th, 2009, 08:24 AM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico_Uru View Post
[I]
Those are all value-judgments that cannot be quantified-except for the asbestos, which can be and was removed. I do not agree with any of the other statements, it was not hated by all, there was a vocal movement to prevent its destruction. Therefore, we will never agree about this, let us focus rather on the historical and political importance of the two buildings.
Indeed, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There are always people who find what the rest of society finds ugly, beautiful. But no, I couldn't careless about the plotical history of either building. Life is far to important to care which period a building was constructed in was more terrible. I just don't want an eyesore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico_Uru View Post
When the Palast was in operation, it was a public building meant to be open to all citizens of the DDR. The building, in proposals to save the building, was to be even more inclusive and multipurpose, indeed in the last years of the building it was an amazing place to have art exhibitions. The Prussian palace, by definition, is exclusionary. This is what we want to recreate, a building that represents avatistic notions of inherited privilege, a regime that was less democratic than the DDR, hyper-militarized and institutionally racist? The DDR was no saint, but it was a more humane regime than Kaiser's Germany that sent millions of Germans to die on the battlefield for the regimes imperialist and racist notions of German hegemony. Again, if you are going to answer to this, I do not want to hear your 'its ugly, har har' comment, its immaterial b/c I do not think it was ugly and you aren't going to convince me otherwise.
I don't agree with you at all. Communisim around the world has killed more people than Imperialist Germany ever did. And that old building was a representation of that said communisim. But all that aside, it was still butt ugly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico_Uru View Post
Sounds like Skid Row in the US...anyways, no one is denying the regime of the DDR was not a human rights paradise. However, in its defence it had ample social programs that did make life better there than anywhere else except the most advanced capitalist states, and no East German was homeless, unemployed, or went hungry...standards that we are clearly lacking in our capitalist societies. Having talked to East Germans, they do recognize the errors of the regime, but they also recognize that there were positives, i.e. a greater sense of community. Compare that record to the Kaiser's regime of imperialism, suppression of workers, wonton murder of millions, dispossession and genocidal acts of savagery in Africa, the use of chemical weaponry against allied troops, institutionalized rape in the occupied territories, institutionalized racism...yet this is to be glorified and rebuilt in the centre of Berlin! Say what you will about the DDR, but it did not even come CLOSE to the barbarity of the Prussian regime. I hope you enjoy defending that record.
Don't agree at all. If the DDR was even slightly good, why did they have to build a giant wall to keep everyone in. And then put armed guards on that wall to shoot anyone who left, and then to put mines between the walls to blow up the others that the guards missed, adults and children alike.

Anyone could leave the West for the socialist paradise of the DDR but very very few did. Yet people were willing to risk their lives and that of their families to get the hell out of the DDR.

Sorry, true history proves you wrong. I can see why you like the old Palast. You are a communist, as simple as that, and that building was a communist building.

Hate to say this, but communisim is a failed system and is gone and so is that building. The Palast will never come back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico_Uru View Post
I do not care what most people think, assuming people even think that, or care. The point is greater than what some consumer in a mall thinks, this is about what is valued in contemporary Germany. The values of the elites who have the political clout and capital to make these decisions and enforce them is troubling to say the least. If you think they are putting this relic from a tyrannical past up just because it looks nice, you are deep in the fog of ideological mystification my friend.
Wow, if I ever heard a communist rant, then here it is. It must be hard to see your political ideal completely fail. I am sorry for this for you. But that is the way it is. Our system does not need a wall to keep us in.

But although our society will never return to such horrors as communisim, at least in our lifetime, there is still hope for you. You could always move to North Korea where it is still strong. They will welcome you with open arms. Of course, it may be difficult leaving again which is often the case with communist dictatorships.
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Old July 17th, 2009, 08:44 AM   #209
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But no, I couldn't careless about the plotical history of either building. Life is far to important to care which period a building was constructed in was more terrible. I just don't want an eyesore.

There is no reason to lie here, you clearly interpreted the issue as a political one when you stated:

Quote:
Never mind the Palast was created by a communist dictatorship that built a wall around the city executing anyone who tried to leave, and who did try to leave because their stupid concept of communist society was a complete failure.
If you merely wanted to talk about the aesthetics of the building, then why state this, or even focus on the political aspect of my response? Aretha Franklin had a famous song in the 80s and I think the title is appropriate for you in this circumstance: Who's Zooming Who?

I don't agree with you at all. Communisim around the world has killed more people than Imperialist Germany ever did. And that old building was a representation of that communist said communisim. But all that aside, it was still butt ugly.

What don't you agree with exactly? Are you saying that historical facts don't matter? That is what you seem to be saying, because that is what you are not agreeing with in the quoted statement.

In addition, we aren't talking about "communism" around the world we are talking about the Palast der Repulik and German history. If we use your standard, the millions of Latin American's, South-East Asians, Middle Easterners who were killed, tortured and disappeared during the systemic dirty war against socialists, communists, etc., to protect capitalism are represented in Frankfurt's towering towers of finance capital; ergo, they should also be torn down. Do we really want to play this game? I suspect the answer is no, so lets stick to the issue at hand. The issue is we have two buildings, one representing a proto-fascist dictatorship that helped bring about a World War killing 10 million people and another building in what, I would call a 'state capitalist' regime, that had a human rights record that was significantly better than in most 'free-market' capitalist states in the world. Therefore, if the Palast represents the DDR, how can the Palace not represent the terror of genocidal violence of the Kaiser? You can dance around that issue all you want, but you are only making a mockery of your own intellect.

Don't agree at all. If the DDR was even slightly good, why did they have to build a giant wall to keep everyone in. And then put armed guards on that wall to shoot anyone who left, and then to put mines between the walls to blow up the others that the guards missed, adults and children alike.

I never said the DDR was a paradise, indeed, I even stated the opposite. So why are you imposing a red herring in this conversation? I am saying, relative to imperial Germany, the DDR was a more humane regime. You are actually suggesting that the record of the Reich was better than the DDR? Secondly, have you ever talked to an East German in a non-condescending way? Assuming you haven't, if you had done so, many would tell you that some things in East Germany got worse after reunification and some have gotten better. You my friend are the one who is engaging in a blind ideological argument, with a simplistic, 1950s binary of the world. Bush would love you.

Sorry, true history proves you wrong. I can see why you like the old Palast. You are a communist, as simple as that, and that building was a communist building.

Yes, I am a socialist so what is it to you? Secondly, 'history' is interpellated from many different ideological perspectives, i.e. this conversation. You, nor I have 'true' history, history is not an objective object. So do not pretend that you have some privileged notion of history, you can barely make a cogent argument.

Hate to say this, but communisim is a failed system and is gone and so is that building. The Palast will never come back.

Well, millions of Latin Americans would tell you differently, socialism is rolling back.

Wow, if I ever heard a communist rant, then here it is. It must be hard to see your political ideal completely fail. I am sorry for this for you. But that is the way it is. Our system does not need a wall to keep us in.

Why do you assume automatically that I supported the Soviet experience? Do you think I am in some way offended, or discouraged by your simplistic logic and worldview? Please, go work to the CIA's propaganda office circa. 1955.
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Old July 17th, 2009, 09:15 AM   #210
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You havn't answered this question yet. "If the DDR was better than the Imperialist society before it, or the capitalist society in the West during the time, then why did they have to build a massive wall to keep everyone in and shoot anyone (including children) who tried to leave.

Let's be honest here. That pretty much translates in anyone's language "our system sucks".

And yes, that old building was butt ugly, is gone, and will never come back.
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Old July 17th, 2009, 09:22 AM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico_Uru View Post
I do not understand why they tore the Palast down, it had a versatility in purpose that the Prussian palace cannot possibly have. The Palast, in contradistinction is a building that is more open to the public than the palace. Never-mind the fact that it was the Prussian monarchy that engaged in genocide in Africa, and was one of the main protagonists of WWI and this is what we are validating? In addition, many East Germans find it offensive that what they built has been devalorized and mocked at by Westerners. Although the Palast is gone now forever, I do not think it speaks well for Germany that it so conveniently chooses to re-build a building that was at the heart of imperialist terror.
As far as I know, the royal castle was a BUILDING, not a person and thus could not hurt anyone (but in the eye? ).
Besides that: The new royal castle will only have some facades and a dome in common with the old castle, designed by baroque architect Schlüter...but maybe that bastard was beating his dog... What would make the facades and the whole building yet evil again...?

To be honest, same goes for the Palace of the Republic.
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Old July 17th, 2009, 10:36 AM   #212
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As far as I know, the royal castle was a BUILDING, not a person and thus could not hurt anyone (but in the eye? ).
Besides that: The new royal castle will only have some facades and a dome in common with the old castle, designed by baroque architect Schlüter...but maybe that bastard was beating his dog... What would make the facades and the whole building yet evil again...?

To be honest, same goes for the Palace of the Republic.
The problem is, as you can clearly see in this thread, that regrettably most PEOPLE don't think that way. Neither in relation to the old castle nor the palace of the republic.

To my personal annoyance the most zealous supporters of the demolition of the palace of the republic are (most of the time, I don't want to generalize too much) the kind of people who have never even been near it, let alone inside, and are in my eyes - without thinking for themselves - trapped in a world view that should have died in 1989.

And as Nico_Uru said, the rebuilt Schloss won't be a place for the people. The palace of the republic was a place to go to and have fun. It had cafes, a concert room, a disco and even bowling alleys. And it WAS open to anyone. The Schloss will now be a museum. A "dead" building to look pretty and pretend 50 years of German history never happened.
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Old July 17th, 2009, 03:44 PM   #213
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Wow, a bowling alley. It'll be missed.

So are all reconstructions examples of "pretending" that history didn't happen? If you walk through Berlin you will see fine examples of its history everywhere. If you want to see remnants of the GDR, just walk a couple of steps further east and you'll see statues of Marx and Engels, Alexanderplatz, and of course the most beautiful Socialist avenue in all of Germany. By demolishing the castle btw, the GDR pretended that 500 years of German history had never happened.

Haven't we had all of these discussions before though?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico Uru
a regime that was less democratic than the DDR
Please read a book on German history and then we can continue this discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico Uru
hyper-militarized
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Old July 17th, 2009, 07:10 PM   #214
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Justme

I answered your question, and stop bringing up red herrings. You are obviously intellectually unable to carry on this conversation.

Kampflamm

Wow, a bowling alley. It'll be missed.

Wow indeed, what you seem to misunderstand is that a bowling ally has more relevance to the people than a glorified room lined with gold leif that serves no other purpose than to show off the power and wealth of the Prussian monarchy. Again, the Palast was a building built for the inclusion of the people in the nominal seat of state power, the Palace is a building designed and built for exclusion of those people from state power. It really is very symbolic of the current trajectory of society.

So are all reconstructions examples of "pretending" that history didn't happen? If you walk through Berlin you will see fine examples of its history everywhere. If you want to see remnants of the GDR, just walk a couple of steps further east and you'll see statues of Marx and Engels, Alexanderplatz, and of course the most beautiful Socialist avenue in all of Germany. By demolishing the castle btw, the GDR pretended that 500 years of German history had never happened.

The castle in 1949 was a heap of rubble from the bombings in the war, the DDR had a limited capital and resources to rebuild a society that was bombed more than West Germany. It did not help that the USSR engaged in one of the largest repo jobs in the world when it came to East Germany's capital stock. Never-mind the huge housing shortage due to the war, so you wanted the regime to spend its scarce resources in rebuilding the seat of the reich, a regime that stood against everything the socialist regime stood for, because it looks pretty, while hundreds of thousands of Germans lived in precarious living conditions? Yes, you sound like a petty bourgeois already. And I don't even think the Palace was anything wow compared to the other royal houses of Europe.

Please read a book on German history and then we can continue this discussion.

Democracy means many things to many people my friend.

About the picture you showed of the East German soldiers marching.

Bastille Day:
image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr


So logically speaking, France is just as hyper-militarized as East Germany.
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Old July 17th, 2009, 07:58 PM   #215
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Wow indeed, what you seem to misunderstand is that a bowling ally has more relevance to the people than a glorified room lined with gold leif that serves no other purpose than to show off the power and wealth of the Prussian monarchy.
It does? I'd rather walk through a magnificent palace than throw balls at pins.

Quote:
The castle in 1949 was a heap of rubble from the bombings in the war
Wrong. It could have been rebuilt and was no more destroyed than plenty of buildings in EGermany that weren't torn down. The destruction of the palace was a political move, nothing more or less.

Quote:
About the picture you showed of the East German soldiers marching.
Does every Frenchman have to serve in the army? Will he or she be locked up if she refuses to serve in the army? EGermany was a highly militarized state and used that military to kill and essentially lock up its own people.

Quote:
Yes, you sound like a petty bourgeois already.
Thanks.

Quote:
Never-mind the huge housing shortage due to the war, so you wanted the regime to spend its scarce resources in rebuilding the seat of the reich, a regime that stood against everything the socialist regime stood for, because it looks pretty, while hundreds of thousands of Germans lived in precarious living conditions?
Yes...after all the Soviet Union did the exact same thing. They also rebuilt royal palaces even though people were homeless because they accepted and understood the cultural value of these buildings.
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Old July 17th, 2009, 08:33 PM   #216
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It does? I'd rather walk through a magnificent palace than throw balls at pins.

How many castles does Germany have? Why create a new one, that compared to other German castle's looks like a piece of crap? I mean really:

http://www.uwo.ca/modlang/images/Neu...n%20Castle.png

Germany is the size of my finger, if you want to go to a beautiful building you have so many places to go in Germany, and in Berlin proper. The point about the Palast is that it is a unique historical relic, that constituted part of Germany's past that should not be ignored of glossed over. The fact that Germans are rebuilding a sterile, in my opinion ugly compared to other German or European palaces, is a joke. The rebuilding of the Palace is more political than anything else, it is the signal from West German capital that they "won", and they wanted to get rid of the symbol of socialism and East German identity. Let's stop this stupid, foolish game of 'its pretty'. The fact is, if you package anything just right, anything can be considered beautiful, for example: http://blog.oregonlive.com/portlandb.../08/slater.jpg

Wrong. It could have been rebuilt and was no more destroyed than plenty of buildings in EGermany that weren't torn down. The destruction of the palace was a political move, nothing more or less.

Hmm sounds EXACTLY like what they did to the Palast too...I guess its a game of revenge. Too bad what they are defending and recreating was the seat of Europe's most murderous regime, something to be truly proud of.

Does every Frenchman have to serve in the army? Will he or she be locked up if she refuses to serve in the army? EGermany was a highly militarized state and used that military to kill and essentially lock up its own people.

I believe in Italy you do have to serve in the army, and if you don't, you will go to jail. Also, did not West Germany have that rule as well? Being forced to serve in the army was common through the world to help build a sense of nationalism and community. I am sorry but the United States current locks people up with no charges, spies on its own citizens without any warrants, tortures, illegally invaded a nation, lets 50 million go on without NO healthcare coverage, and has millions of people who are literally hungry and living on the streets, and it is BY definition the most hyper-militarized state in the world spending more than the rest of the world combined on its military-industrial complex...please spare me your simpleton logic. Also the French, or any liberal-democratic regime surely shows its ugly side once things start going against it:

http://www.jahsonic.com/Paris1968.jpg
http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/20..._470x390,0.jpg


No that isn't Eastern Europe, that was Paris in 1968. Or how about the French in Algeria:

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/chi...02/algeria.jpg
http://www.marxists.org/history/fran...tion-1960.jpgp


Or how about the capitalist paradise of Chile, 1973:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/124/3...77c2d5a495.jpg
http://libcom.org/files/images/libra...-coup-1973.jpg
http://www.aetherometry.com/Electron...chile_1973.jpg

Don't play this bull-shit game with me.

Yes...after all the Soviet Union did the exact same thing. They also rebuilt royal palaces even though people were homeless because they accepted and understood the cultural value of these buildings.

Ya too bad most of the USSR palaces were not taken over or bombed by the Germans. The Amber room, which the Germans stole was never replaced, to my knowledge, by the USSR.
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Last edited by Nico_Uru; July 20th, 2009 at 12:52 AM.
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Old July 17th, 2009, 11:17 PM   #217
Kampflamm
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Quote:
Why create a new one, that compared to other German castle's looks like a piece of crap? I mean really:

Neuschwanstein
Interesting that you mention Neuschwanstein...a fake castle that was built by a king who admired absolutist monarchs and lead his country into bankruptcy.

Quote:
seat of Europe's most murderous regime


One piece of advice for you...Prussia isn't just Wilhelm II. It was a country that actually welcomed people of all faiths. Read up on Frederick the Great or just read this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Iron-Kingdom-D.../dp/0674023854

Anyway, this is the end of the discussion for me. I'm tired of debating the same crap with (rather uneducated) Commies over and over again. Political discussions should be kept out of this thread which is about a building, not a monarch.
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Old July 19th, 2009, 01:16 AM   #218
habsgul
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Originally Posted by Kampflamm View Post
Anyway, this is the end of the discussion for me. I'm tired of debating the same crap with (rather uneducated) Commies over and over again. Political discussions should be kept out of this thread which is about a building, not a monarch.
Unfortunately, for you this obviously never was a discussion.

And groundlessly insulting your conversational partner doesn't prove your point.
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Old July 19th, 2009, 02:17 AM   #219
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Regardless of political issues, this building is outright ugly and should not be allowed to be built anywhere in Europe.

Some young Eastern Europeans seem to miss Communism much (maybe from what they've been told from their nostalgic parents?) Ever got the taste of how is it like?
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Old July 19th, 2009, 03:26 AM   #220
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One piece of advice for you...Prussia isn't just Wilhelm II. It was a country that actually welcomed people of all faiths.

The perverse Prussian system of autocratic 'enlightened' government, which is an oxymoron in my opinion, enabled and created Wilhelm II. Unlike you, I do not live in a world of black and white, so I recognize that not everything in the Prussian era was negative. However, my point is threefold:

1) The Reich was at the heart of inter-imperialist rivalries of the early 20th century that directly led to WWI.
2) The Palace, as the effective seat of the Prussian government, was the nexus of the terror that spread throughout Europe, i.e. Chemical warfare, institutionalized racism, rape, etc.
3) The ideology of the Reich, in part, helped lead to the Nazi terror of the WWII.

The DDRs record, compared to the Reich, is more than tolerable. In addition, the Palast represents a unique and important relic of Germany's past. If you want a symbol of the Reich, you have the Reichstag. I think what the German state did with the Reichstag should have been done with the Palast to signal reconciliation with its past and looking to the future with confidence. The destruction of the Palast highlights ignorance and ideological intolerance that characterizes the so called consensual politics of the current era.

Anyway, this is the end of the discussion for me. I'm tired of debating the same crap with (rather uneducated) Commies over and over again. Political discussions should be kept out of this thread which is about a building, not a monarch.

I have to agree with habsgul here, you know an ad hominem argument is a very strong suggestion that you are the one lacking in sufficient cognitive abilities to continue on with the argument. You know, you do not have to project your own insecurities on me, i.e. calling me uneducated. I just want you to know that I am a Ph.D student in one of the top 20 schools in the world...so uneducated? Rather, it is painfully obvious that you are merely projecting your own deficiencies on me.
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Last edited by Nico_Uru; July 19th, 2009 at 07:03 AM.
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