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Old April 3rd, 2006, 11:16 AM   #41
Justme
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steppenwolf
Fake, lies, ignorance of the past, replacing a palace of the people with a palace of a repressive government, devaluation pof genuine heritage. In a few years time no one will know whats old and whats new in germany. i think this project stinks.
I don't understand the political stance you are making here. This is a reconstrcution of a beautiful building that once graced the city and was sadly destroyed. When completed, it will be used as an art gallery and museum for the population and visitors and is perfectly situated for this role on an island known as "Muesum Island".

To be honest, when I first heard about this development, I was a little dissapointed that the replacement building would be a reconstruction of an older building rather than something new. But after visiting Berlin, I realized that with so much destruction during WWII and the Cold War, Berlin has very few grand historical buildings left, especially when compared to it's past. It also has a plethera of modern structures which is what the city is now famous for.

Berlin would benifit from the grace of this new (old) building. It's in a perfect location and would bring some of the past glory of Berlin that was lost.

I never had any issues with the destruction of the old "Peoples Palace". This structure was simply ugly, and was totally out of place in its location. As others have pointed out, there are plenty of other reminders of East Berlins communist past.

As for the reconstruction of damaged or destroyed buildings, I can't see any real problem with this. It has been done before in Germany and many other countrys and usually with great success.

London was lucky to have much of its historical masterpieces in tack. Berlin was not, and this was once one of the grandest cities in Europe. I think this is a positive step for Berlin. It replaces a terribly ugly building that has no place in it's location with a beautiful building that will be incredibly popular after it is complete.
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Old April 3rd, 2006, 06:10 PM   #42
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The first crane

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Old April 12th, 2006, 02:08 AM   #43
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current chaos...

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Old June 8th, 2006, 08:40 PM   #44
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the ruins of the old castle


Source: http://www.ekunkel.de/
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Old June 9th, 2006, 10:56 PM   #45
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Old June 9th, 2006, 11:03 PM   #46
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it looks ugly anyways.. so GOOD RIDDANCE!
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Old August 3rd, 2006, 01:07 AM   #47
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Old August 4th, 2006, 04:12 AM   #48
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So ignoring and enjoying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme
I don't understand the political stance you are making here. This is a reconstrcution of a beautiful building that once graced the city and was sadly destroyed.
It's not only a reconstruction of the old Berlin City Palace, it's a reconstruction of the old symbol of Prussian and German imperialism, that leaded into WW1 and WW2. Beautiful to eyes, but certainly not to a lot of memories.

This replacement has a clear message:
A symbol of German Imperialism wins over a symbol of the German Democratic Republic!
Of course the GDR was not an ideal system, but old Imperial/Nazi Prussia/Germany caused more than 100 Mln deaths worldwide, incomparable more than the number of GDR victims.

So ignoring and enjoying?
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Old August 4th, 2006, 09:37 AM   #49
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I'm sad that this palace will be destroyed.

It's a nonsense building in that area, anyway it is a symbol of an era.. the cold war.
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Old August 4th, 2006, 10:12 AM   #50
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I'm of full support for the new "Stadtschloss" - and I agree that there is enough "East German" heritage elsewhere in the city for those nostalgics, who complain about the demise of this ugly building. The 'People's Palace' shouldn't have been there in the first place, and most East Germans never liked it anyway back then, so I don't understand where these people are coming from, criticising the destruction of it.

How many people opposed Potsdamer Platz before it was built?... and how many praise it now?..... How many people complained about the new Haupt-Bahnhof (Berlin's new Central Station)?... and how many agree now that it's a fantastic building?... I could go on and on, but the answer is always the same: a lot of people convert from critics to supporters! But unfortunately many of those don't learn in due course, and they keep criticising other new developments again and again.

Berlin has always changed, and a metropolis like Berlin (or like any other major city in the world) should never stand still. Rather they always have to reinvent themselves.

The 'People's Palace' is not old enough to claim 'historic protection' or 'national heritage' status.... However, the Stadtschloss would have had that status (if it wasn't willfully destroyed the Communists).

.... just my point of view.
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Old August 5th, 2006, 05:03 PM   #51
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Good riddance. The imperial palace will be beautiful!
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Old August 5th, 2006, 05:48 PM   #52
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R. I. P.
Palace of the Republic
1976-2006

It was a very ugly building, but it has been reported to have housed 2 large auditoriums, art galleries, restaurants, and a bowling alley. Some Berlinians are partially saddened by its demolition by now. The rebuilt Berlin City Palace is going to change that.
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Old August 18th, 2006, 10:25 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna Maria
It's not only a reconstruction of the old Berlin City Palace, it's a reconstruction of the old symbol of Prussian and German imperialism, that leaded into WW1 and WW2. Beautiful to eyes, but certainly not to a lot of memories.

This replacement has a clear message:
A symbol of German Imperialism wins over a symbol of the German Democratic Republic!
Of course the GDR was not an ideal system, but old Imperial/Nazi Prussia/Germany caused more than 100 Mln deaths worldwide, incomparable more than the number of GDR victims.

So ignoring and enjoying?
I do not understand your complaints about the symbol of German imperialism. First of all, for me it is clearly not a symbol of German imperialism because a) Germany's imperial past is of rather modest importance (and I am really talkin of the imperialism before WWI, since the Stadtschloss was never a Nazi symbol) and b) the symbolic character of the building as such is negligible. In fact you have to bear in mind that many of the beautiful and historical buildings we admire have a rather doubtful past or symbolic background. People admire the Pyramides in Egypt, the Coloseum in Rome or Versailles. And many people forget that these buildings were built as a symbol of power of the respective regimes - and these regimes were neither democratic nor peaceful.
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Old August 18th, 2006, 11:39 PM   #54
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I think it's a good thing that it is getting destroyed. It's an eyesore and doesn't belong there. For those that are worried that this building won't be remembered, and it's part of history... don't worry. I am sure in the new museum it will be mentioned, and maybe a whole section will be given off to that era.
In Moscow they are doing the same with Hotel Russia, which is right by the Kremlin. A lot of people have memories of Hotel Russia, including my parents who got married there.
But the place is an eyesore and doesn't belong. It is being dismantled and on that site they are planning on rebuilding the old city. A lot a like between these 2 projects.
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Old August 18th, 2006, 11:57 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna Maria
It's not only a reconstruction of the old Berlin City Palace, it's a reconstruction of the old symbol of Prussian and German imperialism, that leaded into WW1 and WW2. Beautiful to eyes, but certainly not to a lot of memories.

This replacement has a clear message:
A symbol of German Imperialism wins over a symbol of the German Democratic Republic!
Of course the GDR was not an ideal system, but old Imperial/Nazi Prussia/Germany caused more than 100 Mln deaths worldwide, incomparable more than the number of GDR victims.

So ignoring and enjoying?
If the GDR was democratic, then Dolly Parton's breasts are natural. And please spare me this typical "imperial Germany is bad " whining. The Hohenzollerns had nothing to do with Nazism, so don't blame Hitler's crimes on them. The GDR locked up its own citizens and shot anyone who tried to escape.

Here's a bit of a history lesson for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_The_Great

Great leader who turned Prussia into a superpower. Even contemporary politicans could learn a thing or two from him.
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Last edited by Kampflamm; August 19th, 2006 at 12:02 AM.
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Old August 30th, 2006, 03:16 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kampflamm
If the GDR was democratic, then Dolly Parton's breasts are natural. And please spare me this typical "imperial Germany is bad " whining. The Hohenzollerns had nothing to do with Nazism, so don't blame Hitler's crimes on them. The GDR locked up its own citizens and shot anyone who tried to escape.

Here's a bit of a history lesson for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_The_Great

Great leader who turned Prussia into a superpower. Even contemporary politicans could learn a thing or two from him.
The GDR replaced the German Nazi regime in eastern Germany, and, compared with Hitler's Germany, it was a peaceful country, despite the 125 border victims during the 37+ years of the cold war. Nazi Germans killed millions.
How many wars the GDR led worldwide, comparing with USA, the self-proclaimed world's Number 1 democracy? How many Arab people were killed by Israeli border soldiers since 1948? 1000? 10000? 100000? ... or isn't Israel a democracy?

BTW ... East/West Germany border shootings.
A question: we know, that 125 were killed by GDR border soldiers, but how many times W. Germans (BGS) used their guns? Until 1974 more than 700 times. You didn't know? How many until the re-unification, and how many were killed? Still a state secret!

***

Don't restrict imperial Prussia and Germany to Nazism and Hitler! Should you forget WW1 and, as example only, "Partitions of Poland"?

Wikipedia as historical source???? The best joke I ever heard. Hahaha, good maybe for ignorants! No wonder you are talking rubbish.
How Prussia came into being, and how Prussia expanded? Take a few good historical books, including Slavic peoples' ones, learn Prussian-Polish and East-Prussian history after 1200, then come again.

Last edited by Anna Maria; August 30th, 2006 at 04:11 AM.
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Old August 30th, 2006, 03:48 PM   #57
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Quote:
The GDR replaced the German Nazi regime in eastern Germany, and, compared with Hitler's Germany, it was a peaceful country, despite the 125 border victims during the 37+ years of the cold war. Nazi Germans killed millions.
Compared to Nazi Germany every country can be considered "peaceful." How many "border victims" did West Germany cause? That's right, none.


Quote:
How many wars the GDR led worldwide, comparing with USA, the self-proclaimed world's Number 1 democracy? How many Arab people were killed by Israeli border soldiers since 1948? 1000? 10000? 100000? ... or isn't Israel a democracy?
Don't see what Israel has to do with the Palast in particular or the GDR in general. FYI, the GDR participated in the invasion of Czechoslovakia in 68. Oh yes, what a truly peaceful country it was.


Quote:
W. Germans (BGS) used their guns? Until 1974 more than 700 times. You didn't know? How many until the re-unification, and how many were killed? Still a state secret!
I really have no clue what you're talking about. The BGS is more than just a border guard, that's why they've been renamed Bundespolizei (federal police). So you're complaining about the police using their guns?


Quote:
Wikipedia as historical source???? The best joke I ever heard. Hahaha, good maybe for ignorants! No wonder you are talking rubbish.
How Prussia came into being, and how Prussia expanded? Take a few good historical books, including Slavic peoples' ones, learn Prussian-Polish and East-Prussian history after 1200, then come again.
Are you a linguistic genius? Do you speak the old Baltic language of the Prussians? And again wtf does all of this have to do with the Palast? Fact of the matter is that you're just trying to downplay the crimes of an atrocious government which locked up its own people while you're throwing mud at a democratic western government at the same time. Really shows your true character.
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Old August 30th, 2006, 05:20 PM   #58
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oh dear. Looks as though we have another communist on our hands. Anna, wake up and smell the rotting cadavers. Communism resulted in millions of deaths around the world.

Yes, there may have only been 125 victims through the GDR killing people who tried to leave the country, but that is 125 too many. How many people are shot trying to leave a democratic country? Zero. And don't forget to keep in mind that the number would be much higher if more people were brave enough to try and escape. But death is a damn good deterrent.

If the GDR was so great, then why did they need to build such a wide and defended wall to keep people in? Why did they need to use death as a reason to stop people leaving? Anyone from the West could enter the East, but not the other way around. And then they lied by giving it a name to suggest it was a defence from Westerners entering the Eastern side.

Wake up.
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Old August 30th, 2006, 05:43 PM   #59
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Hey!! This thread is about an ugly building that will be replaced by a beautiful one!
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Old August 31st, 2006, 02:26 PM   #60
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Last edited by GNU; February 9th, 2009 at 10:15 PM.
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