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Old December 22nd, 2013, 01:45 PM   #1981
Baron Hirsch
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like what? reducing berlin-munich to 4 hrs from previously 6 promises enormous potential to draw passengers out of planes and into trains. it is worth discussing whether this had to be via erfurt or could have followed a more direct route. it is normal to start with few trains and increase later. with new trains in a few years, we will hopefully see more than just the hourly departures db has so far limited itself to on ice services.
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 02:07 PM   #1982
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I don't think this project is wrong, speeding up M-B was a real necessity. What I don't understand is why voluntarily limit freight traffic on the route due to the presence of tunnels.

Ok, there are some 2% slopes which don't respect the TSI's limits of 1,25%, but that doesn't mean no freight train at all can use the line... especially the faster (and lighter) container trains.
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 04:56 PM   #1983
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I think München-Berlin rail traffic will increase a lot after the project is completed.

However, in hindsight this route should have used Transrapid maglev technology, which allows tighter curves and steeper grades without compromising speed.
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 05:28 PM   #1984
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I think München-Berlin rail traffic will increase a lot after the project is completed.

However, in hindsight this route should have used Transrapid maglev technology, which allows tighter curves and steeper grades without compromising speed.
Which would have resulted in incompatibility with any other rail-based transport. Maglevs should be for city-airport-links and the like.
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 05:34 PM   #1985
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Which would have resulted in incompatibility with any other rail-based transport. Maglevs should be for city-airport-links and the like.
You could have transfer stations between both systems, like people transfer between third-rail and overhead wire trains in Berlin for instance.
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 05:52 PM   #1986
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Which works just because the incompatible system is limited to a relatively small area.

I'm studying right now the level of traffic mixing that is planned on the new ABS/NBS around the node of Nürnberg (long distance + local + freight), this would have been impossible with a Maglev.
And your answer will be: the Maglev shouldn't have touched Nürnberg, so there'd have been no need to mix traffic.
Yes, but there would have been not enough money to build both a Maglev line and the improvements in Nürnberg and other cities, so to reduce a bit of long distance time, everything in the middle would remain congested...

In Italy there are already enough problems due to the separation of HS from standard network (different feeding system); with totally incompatible track structures, rail projects would become rather impossible...
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 08:53 PM   #1987
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The traffic between Munich and Berlin definitely does not prove the need for a brand new transit tool (let it be an ICE, a Maglev, an idontknowhy), calling only the two end points.
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 09:16 PM   #1988
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A Maglev could still call at Nürnberg and Leipzig.
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 09:21 PM   #1989
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The traffic between Munich and Berlin definitely does not prove the need for a brand new transit tool (let it be an ICE, a Maglev, an idontknowhy), calling only the two end points.
They are two of the three largest cities in the country. The amount of traffic on this route does perfectly well warrant such an investment. Especially if it spares us from even more air traffic.
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 09:37 PM   #1990
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In any case, waht happened to the maglev project to link the airport with München Hbf?
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 12:52 AM   #1991
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An end has come to the drama surrounding the Velaro D: the EBA has given approval for revenue service operation of the first 4 trains.
What has been the source of the hold up?
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 01:08 AM   #1992
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What has been the source of the hold up?
Software related issues, mostly. Among one of the issues, EBA considered the time between pulling the emergency brake and the train actually starting to brake to be a second too long.
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 12:53 PM   #1993
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On 21st of December the first public service was done with the new ICE 3 Velaro (BR 407):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n85vfewU6ZY

Those train were originally scheduled to enter service in December 2011. Now they still need the approval for the networks of France, Belgium, Eurotunnel, Netherlands, UK to finally get a service Frankfurt/Amsterdam - Brussels - London. It's a loooong way for that.

Currently the trains only run with one segement around Germany. There are 4 trains available but only 1 in service! More are expected to come soon...
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 01:04 PM   #1994
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In Italy there are already enough problems due to the separation of HS from standard network (different feeding system); with totally incompatible track structures, rail projects would become rather impossible...
Germany uses 15kV AC electrification, which is much more viable for a high-density traffic of HSTs (especially as they have some sectors with steeper grades) than using 3kV DC. So they didn't go for a new 25 kV AC networks like Spain, France and Italy did.

In Italy, the Diretissima HSL still suffers from having been electrified with 3kV. Germany doesn't have such problem.
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 02:15 PM   #1995
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An end has come to the drama surrounding the Velaro D: the EBA has given approval for revenue service operation of the first 4 trains.
So all the trains could be in service within a month. As far as I know all sets are ready to be handed over to DB and taken into service, with the handover department of DB being the limiting factor at this moment.
That also means that in the next 6 months we will find out if the Velaro D is more reliable then the ICE3 (403/406) (Why they chose to call the Velaro D ICE3 as well remains a mystery, because there would have been nothing wrong with calling it ICE4).
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 04:22 PM   #1996
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In any case, waht happened to the maglev project to link the airport with München Hbf?
Gone for good.
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 04:28 PM   #1997
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Where it deserved...
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I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 05:09 PM   #1998
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So all the trains could be in service within a month. As far as I know all sets are ready to be handed over to DB and taken into service, with the handover department of DB being the limiting factor at this moment.
Siemens will probably have to do some retrofitting on the sets that have not yet been handed over to DB, and EBA will probably want to see those sets tested as well before formal approval is given.
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That also means that in the next 6 months we will find out if the Velaro D is more reliable then the ICE3 (403/406) (Why they chose to call the Velaro D ICE3 as well remains a mystery, because there would have been nothing wrong with calling it ICE4).
That has probably something to do with the way in which the BR 403/406 is called internally: ICE 2.2. DB used a trick to be able to order those sets, it made it appear as if it was a succession to the ICE 2 order, hence the 2.2 monikor. Upon delivery DB presented them as ICE 3.
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 05:23 PM   #1999
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Why did they have to call them ICE 2.2 initially?
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 10:20 PM   #2000
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Siemens will probably have to do some retrofitting on the sets that have not yet been handed over to DB, and EBA will probably want to see those sets tested as well before formal approval is given.
Given the problem I expect it's just a firmware update. However given the complexity of the object I would be surprised if a thorough test drive of every individual set wasn't part of the delivery procedure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
That has probably something to do with the way in which the BR 403/406 is called internally: ICE 2.2. DB used a trick to be able to order those sets, it made it appear as if it was a succession to the ICE 2 order, hence the 2.2 monikor. Upon delivery DB presented them as ICE 3.

Your argument is all the more reason to call the 407 ICE4, since they have already used a numbering shift in the past. Calling it ICE3 is kind of the same as Porsche does with the 911: all models since 1989 have had a different internal number (e.g. 991 for the current model), with few parts from the different models being interchangeable.

The best argument for sticking with ICE 3 is that 407 can couple with 403 and 406 sets. You can't use them interchangeable however because the differences in seating arrangement will screw up seat reservations.

In the end it doesn't really matter. For most passengers an ICE is an ICE regardless of the model and the real enthusiasts will probably use the class number to avoid confusion when referring to a particular model.
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