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Old January 4th, 2014, 09:16 AM   #2001
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Unfortunately, the German thread on this board is not developing very much. Compared to the Spanish or some Asian threads, the German one is rather boring.

Therefor I thought to give you a (once or twice a week) update about things going on with Deutsche Bahn. I live in Germany and do use ICE & co rather often!

Getting started with a quick information:

There are 5 daily (return) trains between Paris and Frankfurt with a travel time of 3.50 h using the LGV est in France. One with TGV, four with ICE.



Because of a lack of rolling stock from Deutsche Bahn, one ICE is getting replaced all around 2014 by a TGV Duplex, so from last week there are only 3 ICE and 2 TGV!

This used to be the case a couple of years ago too, but because Germany still doesn't have enough ICE 3 sets sncf is giving support!
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Old January 4th, 2014, 11:58 AM   #2002
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On the Munich-Salzburg route, the new company Meridian has replaced DB Regio since 13.12.13. Meridian is fully owned by Bayerische Oberlandbahn, which already operates from Munich to Tegernsee and other destinations in the area. Meridian is using Stadler FLIRT EMUs on all lines.
Current lines are: Munich-Salzburg, Munich-Kufstein and Munich-Holzkirchen-Rosenheim.

As only 20 EMUs (of 35 ordered) are expected to be ready by the end of January (due to certification issues with the EBA), various rented rolling stock is currently used.

DB Regio mainly used BR111 and Bombardier double-decker/n-coaches ("Silberlinge").

www.der-meridian.de (German only)
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Old January 4th, 2014, 12:05 PM   #2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpUp View Post
There are 5 daily (return) trains between Paris and Frankfurt with a travel time of 3.50 h
Yes, Frankfurt has 5 direct fast trains to Paris every day. Roughly the same size Düsseldorf has only 3 direct trains (with the shortest travel time 3h50min. as well). The Düsseldorf region is nevertheless more densely populated, in Hessen including Frankfurt live "just" 6 million people while North Rhine Westphalia with its capital city counts almost 3 times more inhabitants. In this regard I can see a significant disproportion... Is Frankfurt that much stronger economically in comparison to Düsseldorf?
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Old January 4th, 2014, 12:18 PM   #2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eu01 View Post
Yes, Frankfurt has 5 direct fast trains to Paris every day. Roughly the same size Düsseldorf has only 3 direct trains (with the shortest travel time 3h50min. as well). The Düsseldorf region is nevertheless more densely populated, in Hessen including Frankfurt live "just" 6 million people while North Rhine Westphalia with its capital city counts almost 3 times more inhabitants. In this regard I can see a significant disproportion... Is Frankfurt that much stronger economically in comparison to Düsseldorf?
There are more trains from Köln, right? Thalys and ICE.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpUp View Post
There are 5 daily (return) trains between Paris and Frankfurt with a travel time of 3.50 h using the LGV est in France. One with TGV, four with ICE.



Because of a lack of rolling stock from Deutsche Bahn, one ICE is getting replaced all around 2014 by a TGV Duplex, so from last week there are only 3 ICE and 2 TGV!

This used to be the case a couple of years ago too, but because Germany still doesn't have enough ICE 3 sets sncf is giving support!
What is this shortage about? Just the new ICE delays? Many sets lost to accidents?
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Old January 4th, 2014, 12:32 PM   #2005
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Has there been a general price increase on the cheapest tickets from DB? I noticed while casually looking for fares that the cheapest Frankfurt - Berlin tickets on ICE are now € 65 instead of € 49.
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Old January 4th, 2014, 12:37 PM   #2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavariair View Post
On the Munich-Salzburg route, the new company Meridian has replaced DB Regio since 13.12.13. Meridian is fully owned by Bayerische Oberlandbahn, which already operates from Munich to Tegernsee and other destinations in the area. Meridian is using Stadler FLIRT EMUs on all lines.
Current lines are: Munich-Salzburg, Munich-Kufstein and Munich-Holzkirchen-Rosenheim.

As only 20 EMUs (of 35 ordered) are expected to be ready by the end of January (due to certification issues with the EBA), various rented rolling stock is currently used.
You are a bit polite for describing Meridian's debut. At the moment they only have 10 available FLIRTs and the rest of the trains are in such bad condition they constantly break down. Punctuality was initially at just 55 % but apparently is more stable now. However Meridian had to cut down on the schedule in order to achieve this.
It is another example of the absurdity we have now seen repeatedly in the last years: small rail company wins tender for rail services due to promises of fancy new trains; the Federal Rail Agency or the constructor is too slow to build/approve the new vehicles; passengers sit in too small, too old trains for months or years waiting for the new trains. When service is finally normal, it is time for the new tender and the region is fed up with the provider's failure to provide train services as promised and fall for the next small company promising brand-new rolling stock within a few months time….
Somebody has to do something about this, it just does not work.

@eu01: stop your whining. There are 5 Thalys from Köln to Paris daily. Is the 30 minute ride by local train to Köln really going to kill you?
@suburbanist: yes, this is part of the general dilemma of lacking ICEs. No, there should still be cheaper connections available if you look long and hard.

Last edited by Baron Hirsch; January 4th, 2014 at 12:46 PM.
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Old January 4th, 2014, 12:41 PM   #2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
You are a bit polite for describing Meridian's debut. At the moment they only have 10 available FLIRTs and the rest of the trains are in such bad condition they constantly break down. Punctuality was initially at just 55 % but apparently is more stable now. However Meridian had to cut down on the schedule in order to achieve this.
It is another example of the absurdity we have now seen repeatedly in the last years: small rail company wins tender for rail services due to promises of fancy new trains; the Federal Rail Agency or the constructor is too slow to build/approve the new vehicles; passengers sit in too small, too old trains for months or years waiting for the new trains. When service is finally normal, it is time for the new tender and the region is fed up with the provider's failure to provide train services as promised and fall for the next small company promising brand-new rolling stock within a few months time….
Somebody has to do something about this, it just does not work.

Solution involves:

- ERTMS
- European-wide ceritification
- major rolling stock leasing companies that have financial muscle related to manufacturers and can order trainsets on the hundreds

It would yield a situation more akin to that or air transport: though you might, you don't need to buy airplanes to operate airline services, there are mammoth lessors that are happy to lease some airplanes to you, airplanes that in turn are pre-approved to fly between airports without anything like airport-specific certification.
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Old January 4th, 2014, 01:40 PM   #2008
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North-Rhine-Westphalia has now new methods. Vehicles and service operation are tendered separately (@see RRX project).
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Old January 4th, 2014, 03:21 PM   #2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpUp View Post
Unfortunately, the German thread on this board is not developing very much. Compared to the Spanish or some Asian threads, the German one is rather boring.

Therefor I thought to give you a (once or twice a week) update about things going on with Deutsche Bahn. I live in Germany and do use ICE & co rather often!

Getting started with a quick information:

There are 5 daily (return) trains between Paris and Frankfurt with a travel time of 3.50 h using the LGV est in France. One with TGV, four with ICE.

Because of a lack of rolling stock from Deutsche Bahn, one ICE is getting replaced all around 2014 by a TGV Duplex, so from last week there are only 3 ICE and 2 TGV!

This used to be the case a couple of years ago too, but because Germany still doesn't have enough ICE 3 sets sncf is giving support!
And DB won't receive any more ICE 3 since Siemens finally managed to deliver some Velaros. Does anyone know if these are already certified for France?
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Old January 4th, 2014, 03:44 PM   #2010
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Possibly yes, or at least partially. There is some cooperation on this between EBA and ist French counterpart. I found a sentence on this in one report which is not very clear, so I will quote it here so German speakers can try to make sense of it.
http://dmm.travel/news/artikel/lesen...fortsetzung/1/
About the Velaros approved by EBA for Christmas:
"Die Viersystem-Fahrzeuge sollen im Verkehr in Deutschland, Frankreich und Belgien zum Einsatz kommen, außerdem etwa ab 2017 auf nach Großbritannien.
Am 04. Juli 2013 hatte das Eisenbahn-Bundesamt (EBA) den ersten der 16 von Siemens Rail Systems hergestellten Hochgeschwindigskeitstriebzüge Velaro D für den Betrieb auf dem deutschen Schienennetz in Einfachtraktion freigegeben.
Der Zug ist eine Weiterentwicklung der mehrsystemfähigen Variante des ICE 3. Die Juni-Zulassung war der erste Schritt im gemeinsamen Zulassungsverfahren der Nationalen Sicherheitsbehörde Frankreichs (Etablissement Public de Sécurité Ferroviaire (EPSF)) und dem EBA auf Basis eines entsprechenden Memorandum of Understanding."
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Old January 4th, 2014, 03:59 PM   #2011
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Any news on the new ICX trains? When will the first units be delivered for testing?
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Old January 6th, 2014, 11:44 PM   #2012
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Modernisation of classic IC coaches

Modernisation of classic IC coaches

HeyHo,

Between 2012 and 2014, Deutsche Bahn is doing a modernisation of 770 IC-coaches. Most of them already have air-conditioning.
Those coaches have been built a few decades ago and they are running in trains marked as IC in Germany. The IC trains are the loco-holed trains looking like this:



(Bz-berlin.de)


This is the old look:


1st class:



(wikipedia)



(wikipedia)

2nd class:


(worldonrails.nl)



(wikipedia.de)

And this the new one:


1st class:



(welt.de)



[mopo.de)

2nd class:



(mittelbayerische.de)

To compare:


(welt.de)
Here is a detailed link with the no. and names of the different coaches that are getting their redesign:
http://www.drehscheibe-foren.de/fore...php?31,5995990

Please click here for many interesting photos (many details!):


http://www.drehscheibe-foren.de/fore...php?31,6368504

Today, more than 400 coaches are already finished! They now have power socket on every (second) seat. You can see those trains everywhere in Germany, in particular on the line Stuttgart/Frankfurt - Köln - Hamburg and Frankfurt - Leipzig - Dresden. The coaches run up to 200 km/h

But many IC trains have at least 1-2 random modernized coaches in
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Old January 7th, 2014, 12:31 AM   #2013
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No foldable table in 2nd class? That's a problem... too far to lie a book or a laptop on it, too close to keep them over your legs.

Also, old 1st class seats seem much larger, I loved those six-seat compartmets. 2nd class seats, no so much...
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Old January 11th, 2014, 09:50 PM   #2014
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I have a question: when was the last revenue regular service pulled by steam locos in (West/East) Germany finally withdrawn?
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Old January 12th, 2014, 12:36 AM   #2015
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I'd like to give you a quick overview about the most important high-speed rail project in Germany being constructed right now. It's about fast train services between the two centres Berlin and Munich, via Leipzig/Halle and Nürnberg.

Here is a photo of the current high-speed lines in Germany.
Red: 300 km/h
yellow: 250 km/h
blue: 200-230 km/h



The high speed rail between Berlin and München consists of different parts. Here is the line between Berlin and Nürnberg. All upgraded between Berlin and Nürnberg are part of the project named "VDE 8".



Berlin - Leipzig/Halle: It's an upgraded line with a speed of 200 km/h. Although Leipzig is more important as a city, the faster way leading to München is via Halle. In the future (and even today) some trains run via Halle (being a bit faster), while some trains stop in Leipzig and have to reverse again. The lines was upgraded in 2006 along with the new central station in Berlin. There are still some small parts not fully in service for 200 km/h (e.g. Bitterfeld-Halle). They will be upgraded by 2017.

Leipzig/Halle - Erfurt:

This will be a complete new high-speed rail with speeds upto 300 km/h. Although there are rumours that most trains will only run up to 250 km/h (the new ICx trains that will be featured on that line only go up to 250 km/h). The line will be opened in Decembre 2015 (in two years)

Erfurt - Ebensfeld:

Between Erfurt and Ebensfeld will be a completely new high-speed rail with a speed up to 300 km/h. Same issue here, most trains will only run with 250 km/h.
This line will be opened in Dec. 2017 (in for years).

Ebensfeld - Nürnberg:

This will be an upgraded line running along the city of Bamberg and Erlangen in Bavaria. The line currently has a speed up to 160 km/h and has two tracks. In the future, there will be 4 tracks (for freight, local and high-speed service) running all the way between Ebensfeld and Nürnberg. Some parts are already under construction (Erlangen - Nürnberg), while other parts are not yet sure when or how they will be built. As soon as all the way between Ebensfeld and Nürnberg is with 4 tracks, travel time will be reduced by around 10-15 minutes.

Nürnberg - Ingolstadt - München:

This part is not part of VDE 8 (therefor not shown in the 2nd map), but is currently being built in two parts:

part 1: Nürnberg - Ingolstadt: 300 km/h high-speed track built in 2006 and already fully opened!

part 2: Ingolstadt - München: conventional railway being upgraded for speeds to 190-200 km/h. When finished (around 2017), travel time between Nürnberg and München will be around 55-59 minutes (currently around 65-70 minutes).

This means in general for travels between Berlin and München in 2017:
Travel times will be around 4:20 h all the way with stops inbetween. There will be 2-3 ICE Sprinter trains going non-stop from Berlin and München and v.v. with a travel time of 3:45 h.

Travel time will be reduced by another 15 minutes when Ebensfeld-Nürnberg is fully opened (sometime in the far future) and Bitterfeld-Halle has been upgraded to 200 km/h.




[The HSR Halle/Leipzig - Erfurt will reduce travel time between Frankfurt - Dresden and Frankfurt - Berlin by around 30-45 minutes].
[in 2017, the fastest railway between Vienna and Berlin will be Vienna - Linz - Passau - Nürnberg - Erfurt - Berlin. Today it's Vienna - Prague - Berlin]
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Old January 12th, 2014, 12:51 AM   #2016
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I`d like to inform you about another project currently going on in Germany. It's called the "neue Spessartrampe". It's a rather small new railway line with a length of around 7 km.

It's going to be built between Frankfurt and Würzburg (check it out on that map). In partikular it's being built between the two villages of Laufach and Heigenbrücken.



There you get to see it more clearly

It's part of the railway line Frankfurt - Hanau - Würzburg which is basically a classic line (no high-speed rail, just upgraded for around 160 km/h on some parts). There are two long-distance ICE-lines running between Frankfurt and Würzburg:

- 1 ICE every hour Cologne - Frankfurt - Würzburg - Nürnberg - München (fastest connection between Cologne/Düsseldorf and Nürnberg/München)
- 1 ICE/IC every 2nd hour Cologne - Koblenz - Würzburg - Nürnberg - Passau - Vienna

The "neue Spessartrampe" will reduce travel times by around 2 minutes (not very much!).
The main reason being built is because of freight traffic! In the present, the freight trains need to be pushed by a second loco (at the back of the train) between the stations Laufach and Heigenbrücken. The reason for having locos pushing fright trains is because the tracks are going too steep up the mountain. The new tracks will go through new tunnels without a big gradient.

After the "neue Spessartrampe" is finished in 2017, the old line (using an old tunnel!) will be closed and torn down!!
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Old January 12th, 2014, 01:37 AM   #2017
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The most controversial project in German high-speed rail currently going on is the new high-speed rail between Stuttgart and Ulm inculding a new tunnel station in Stuttgart named "Stuttgart 21".

You can see on the map the railway in Germany and the cities Stuttgart and Ulm.



Stuttgart Hbf (now a station where trains terminate and pull back the opposite way) will be underground so trains can run through without changing the direction of travel!
The old tracks will be torn down to build a new park and new offices and flats.

This photo shows the old tracks of Stuttgart Hbf. They will be demolished because everything is going to be underground. A2 will be a park and offices!



There are many demonstrations and protest going on in Stuttgart against this project. Some people are not happy with it, because it's pretty expensive and parts of the old park got demolished.

New Stuttgart Hbf will look like this:



The project (new Stuttgart Hbf and HSR) is going to be finished in 2021-2022 (if there's no delay, but who knows....)


Red is the new high-speed rail



This new 300 km/h high-speed rail and the new underground Stuttgart Hbf will have a travel time of 25-30 minutes (today 55-60 minutes).
The airport of Stuttgart will be connected much better and faster to the city (now only with a slow regional train to be reached). All the local trains running around Stuttgart are getting changed and will have new directions and additional services and timings.

Plus: Today fright trains need to be pushed by a second loco between parts of Stuttgart - München because the railway line is too steep. After 2021 the freight trains (some some of them) can use the high-speed rail without getting pushed!

To understand why the part between Stuttgart and Ulm is so important, one need to see what ICE-lines pass along those two cities today!

- ICE Düsseldorf-Cologne - Frankfurt (Airport) - Stuttgart - Augsburg - München (it's going to be the fastest connection between Cologne/Düsseldorf/Frankfurt and München after completition of the HSR.

- ICE/IC Karlsruhe - Stuttgart - Ulm - München

- TGV Paris - Stuttgart - München

- Stuttgart - München - Austria (Vienna, Klagenfurt, Graz)

- theoretically some trains Amsterdam/Brüssel - München could be faster with the new HSR. But today there are no ICE trains running that route

The travel time between Paris and München will be cut by 30 minutes in 2016 with the opening of 2nd phase LGV est in France and anohter 30 minutes with the new Stuttgart 21 and HSR in 2021. Paris - München will be only 5 hours!!
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Old January 13th, 2014, 01:55 AM   #2018
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Good to see some info about this projects.
Is there any electrification project going on or planned with chances of being done?

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Old January 13th, 2014, 02:20 AM   #2019
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Nice to hear about some German projects here, particularly about more obscure ones. Talking about ICE routes, wouldn't it be equally fast or faster to run Frankfurt-Munich service via Wurzburg and Nurnberg?
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Old January 13th, 2014, 10:23 PM   #2020
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There are two lines from Frankfurt to Munich, one via Stuttgart, one via Würzburg-Nuremberg. There also are ICEs Munich-Augsburg-Treuchtlingen-Würzburg.
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