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Old March 19th, 2015, 03:19 PM   #2621
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As far as I know, an additional stop only elongates traveltime for a certain small amount of time, as trains can't pass through stations at full speed(or can they?)
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Old March 19th, 2015, 08:21 PM   #2622
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Afaik trains can pass through new stations at rather high speeds (it happens at existing stations, too). And in most cases we're not talking about very high speeds anyways, most of the stations on the map I posted are located either on branch lines or main lines with top speeds of maybe 140 kph (lack of electrification, narrow curves, elder building standards, etc.).

They calculate between 60 and 120 seconds more per stop. The calculation is quite easy: If this attracts more passengers than it scares off, the additional stop pays off.

In some cases (e.g. Buchloe - Lindau) the lines have been upgrated recently and now allow for faster speeds so that additional stops actually don't result in longer travel times than before (currently, the saved time is often lost in Buchloe, the main node of the network southwest of Augsburg/Munich to allow for timetable syncronisation and changeing of trains).
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Old March 20th, 2015, 09:29 AM   #2623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
- the effort to connect more small towns means more stops for IC and ICE trains probably, slowing them down below their present speed
I don´t think so. Having to trains/h on main directions means that not every stop has to be served two times/h. Example for Berlin-Dortmund would mean that Stendal, Wolfsburg, Bielefeld, Hamm would be served with alternating skip-stop-service, whereas Hannover is served by all trains. That´s a really good idea. Having every City with more than 100.000 inhabitants back in the IC-network will not make IC slower, it´s would mean more lines lieke Cottbuss-Emden e. g..

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Old March 20th, 2015, 02:22 PM   #2624
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DB announced recently that they will expand inter city services, more towns (e.g. Heilbronn, Trier, Fürth) will be served by DB Fernverkehr. On the most important connections ICE services will be densified to 2 trains/hour.
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Old March 23rd, 2015, 02:18 PM   #2625
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What was wrong with the old concept of IR trains? Or is the new way simply to eliminate locomotive+carriage consists from IC service, so they can rename all current IC services to ICE and then degrade IC to what used to be called IR?

In the Netherlands they did the same when they abolished the 'sneltrein'. They intended to call this class IR (hence the IR in the name of the VIRM train sets), but for some reason dropped the concept even before implementation started. Consequence is that some services are now run as an Intercity that do not really deserve the name and some Sprinter services are run with Intercity rolling stock.
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Old March 23rd, 2015, 10:31 PM   #2626
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Skip-stop service is not ideal, as it might make slower travelling between small cities served by different trains...
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Old March 24th, 2015, 10:04 AM   #2627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Skip-stop service is not ideal, as it might make slower travelling between small cities served by different trains...
It might be just a Little bit slower for a minority, whereas the vast majority of passengers benefit from this. Travelling from Stendal to Wolfsburg by ICE would simply make no sense.
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Old March 24th, 2015, 10:11 AM   #2628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
What was wrong with the old concept of IR trains? Or is the new way simply to eliminate locomotive+carriage consists from IC service, so they can rename all current IC services to ICE and then degrade IC to what used to be called IR?
There was nothing wrong with IR, except that it was long-distance and not to be used by commuters. It was paid by DBAG itself and the substitutional RE trains must be paid by the county/City. That was the deal.

What they now invent is called IC-neu as a project and would be called IR in other countries. They don´t rename all IC Service into ICE, there will be ICE and IC-neu, whatever the latter will be called when it is in service:

http://www.wiwo.de/unternehmen/diens.../11523504.html

Only german. Please scroll down to view the map as pdf.

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Old March 24th, 2015, 11:54 AM   #2629
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From that PDF


.
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Old March 24th, 2015, 12:10 PM   #2630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tunnel owl View Post
It might be just a Little bit slower for a minority, whereas the vast majority of passengers benefit from this. Travelling from Stendal to Wolfsburg by ICE would simply make no sense.
Yes, but don't do it like in France, where you have situations where there are two stations on the same line, but no way to travel between them by train...

A railways strength comes from maximising network effects.
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Old March 24th, 2015, 12:13 PM   #2631
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I don't like that they include TGV and Railjet on their ICE maps, though, those ought to be independent services catering to an international audience instead of appendages of local services.
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Old March 24th, 2015, 12:24 PM   #2632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I don't like that they include TGV and Railjet on their ICE maps, though, those ought to be independent services catering to an international audience instead of appendages of local services.
International and local are in no way exclusive. How many stations in Elsass have direct HSR service to, say, Frankfurt?

I note that while Basel has 2x hourly ICE service, no other border crossing has as much as hourly schedule.
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Old March 24th, 2015, 12:45 PM   #2633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I don't like that they include TGV and Railjet on their ICE maps, though, those ought to be independent services catering to an international audience instead of appendages of local services.
Why not? ICE line 90 always ran from Munich to Vienna and is served by RJ since 2009 (?).
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Old March 24th, 2015, 01:24 PM   #2634
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Quite simple: It's a business concept of DB Fernverkehr, not a concept of far-distance train services in Germany.
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Old March 24th, 2015, 08:51 PM   #2635
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The high speed trains that DB Fernverkehr operates are mostly ICE trains, as the map is about the Fernverkehr network inside Germany, it's useful to refer to them as "ICE" trains as this brand is known by most of the public.

International trains are run mostly in partnership with other railway companies, but the levels of service and comfort are mostly similar. This is why it makes sense to refer to the network as the "ICE" network, not the "ICE+Railjet+TGV" network. Let along how services to Denmark (and potentially Sweden, once the Fehmarnbelt tunnel opens?) will be called.
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Old March 24th, 2015, 09:54 PM   #2636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
International and local are in no way exclusive. How many stations in Elsass have direct HSR service to, say, Frankfurt?
Two, Strassburg Hbf and Mülhausen Hbf.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
I note that while Basel has 2x hourly ICE service, no other border crossing has as much as hourly schedule.
The border crossings around Basel are by no means the most frequented ones, at least not by high-speed services. The LGV Nord/HSL 1 crossing between France and Belgium is not only passed by more high-speed services. These services actually run at high speed across the border there.
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Old March 24th, 2015, 10:21 PM   #2637
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Basel is the only convenient place to cross Germany-Switzerland border by rail. Most of those trains continue to Zurich (some to Interlaken).
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Old March 25th, 2015, 12:32 PM   #2638
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Originally Posted by K_ View Post
Yes, but don't do it like in France, where you have situations where there are two stations on the same line, but no way to travel between them by train...

A railways strength comes from maximising network effects.
Ok, HSR Berlin-Dortmund is somewhat different as it is completely paralleled with local-service. If it comes to HSR Nürnberg-München don´t be afraid of skip-stop as they order new Skoda-Trains serving all intermediate stops. Those intermediate stops were once built to applease the neighbourhood of HSR, not for real necessary traffic purpose. Only main hotspot between both bavarian cities is Ingolstadt.

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Old March 25th, 2015, 03:40 PM   #2639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
These services actually run at high speed across the border there.
Mainly due to the missing metropolis immediately after the border, I suppose. In the case of Basel, the stations are very close to the borders (true for both SNCF and DB stations).

DB does operate it's own "German" railway station in Basel (Badischer Bahnhof), that explains why there are a lot of trains crossing to Switzerland.
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Old March 25th, 2015, 08:39 PM   #2640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post

The border crossings around Basel are by no means the most frequented ones, at least not by high-speed services. The LGV Nord/HSL 1 crossing between France and Belgium is not only passed by more high-speed services. These services actually run at high speed across the border there.
And that´s not a border of Germany. The crossing from Cologne past Aachen is depicted as once per 2 hours, and so are the crossings from Duisburg and Münster.
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