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Old July 22nd, 2015, 07:31 PM   #2721
AlexNL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SturmBeobachter View Post
But FREE Wi-Fi is NOWHERE to be found in DB network (except a few HBF's with 30 minutes free Wi-Fi in 24hours). Only expensive hotspots, which are most of the time functioning very poor.
DB is working on offering free wi-fi. It's already free for 1st class customers, 2nd class will follow somewhere in 2016 (?).

I don't know why DB is taking so long for the roll-out.
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 08:19 PM   #2722
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Originally Posted by SturmBeobachter View Post
But FREE Wi-Fi is NOWHERE to be found in DB network (except a few HBF's with 30 minutes free Wi-Fi in 24hours). Only expensive hotspots, which are most of the time functioning very poor.
I know that and I was just trying to point out how Surel's argument materialised in Austria because I am certain ÖBB would not be offering any wifi at all if it wasn't for the privat competitor.
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 08:45 PM   #2723
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The competition does not have only positive effect on the line where it happens (btw, the wi-fi story was the same in CZ), but it has substantial effect on the other lines as well, as the monopolist is threatened by a possible incumbent. In order to prevent the incumbent entering, the monopolist has to raise the quality, reduce price, etc...

What I want to say is, that even just a threat of competition has substantial influence on the service.

All in all, I really like the model where regional and non profitable lines are tendered by the regional or state authorities for given time periods. Where the tender requires certain quality standards, awards bonus points for additional quality, and the main criteria is the price. The commercially viable main lines then should be free to enter. The costs then being given by the infrastructure manager.

Obviously this can't really work when the infrastructure manager and one railway operator are not completely separated entities.

Last edited by Surel; July 22nd, 2015 at 08:50 PM.
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 09:58 PM   #2724
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Legally DB Netz and ÖBB Infra are completely separate entities with no legal possibility for the owners (DB and ÖBB Holding) to influence the management. I know for a fact that this works quite well in Austria as WESTbahn has always braced ÖBB Infra for being very fair to them and not harming competition.

I see your point though, but since the problems usually occure at administrative level, I don't see how such discrimination could be resolved by a different ownership structure. The infrastructure would still be owned by the state and you just gave the kid a new name. Take Spain as an example. ADIF is completely separated from RENFE and still the state goes on discriminating against competitors that are not even founded yet (See Case C-483/10 Commission v Spain [2013] OJ C114/05). It basically comes down to the general attitude of every Member State whether they embrace competition or not.
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 10:16 PM   #2725
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Quote:
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Legally DB Netz and ÖBB Infra are completely separate entities with no legal possibility for the owners (DB and ÖBB Holding) to influence the management. I know for a fact that this works quite well in Austria as WESTbahn has always braced ÖBB Infra for being very fair to them and not harming competition.

I see your point though, but since the problems usually occure at administrative level, I don't see how such discrimination could be resolved by a different ownership structure. The infrastructure would still be owned by the state and you just gave the kid a new name. Take Spain as an example. ADIF is completely separated from RENFE and still the state goes on discriminating against competitors that are not even founded yet (See Case C-483/10 Commission v Spain [2013] OJ C114/05). It basically comes down to the general attitude of every Member State whether they embrace competition or not.
Well, then it should be supervised on the EU rather then national level perhaps?

And what if the attitude is to embrace competition abroad, but hinder competition inland... and this is exactly the German attitude.

I am not quite sure in what way is the total split negative. When you have two separated companies they have to behave according to the commercial principles as well. Further on, the total split makes everything quite transparent and easy to control.
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 10:21 PM   #2726
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Quote:
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I know for a fact that this works quite well in Austria as WESTbahn has always braced ÖBB Infra for being very fair to them and not harming competition.
ÖBB Infra being fair to WESTbahn? Absolutely not! There have been at least two cases in which ÖBB Infra got slapped for anticompetitive behaviour:

1) When WESTbahn wanted information about connecting trains, which was denied.
2) When ÖBB Infra changed its infrastructure charging mechanism shortly before WestBAHN started operations.
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 10:40 PM   #2727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
DB is working on offering free wi-fi. It's already free for 1st class customers, 2nd class will follow somewhere in 2016 (?).

I don't know why DB is taking so long for the roll-out.
It's very unprofessional from the point of customer. We are in year 2015, not in 2000.
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 11:37 PM   #2728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
ÖBB Infra being fair to WESTbahn? Absolutely not! There have been at least two cases in which ÖBB Infra got slapped for anticompetitive behaviour:

1) When WESTbahn wanted information about connecting trains, which was denied.
2) When ÖBB Infra changed its infrastructure charging mechanism shortly before WestBAHN started operations.
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In welchen Bereichen sehen Sie sich von den ÖBB unfair behandelt?

Bei der Infrastruktur hat sich in den letzten Wochen und Monaten ein positives Bild gezeigt. Wir hatten kein Problem, zu einer gemeinsamen Lösung beim Fahrplan zu kommen. Und wir wurden bei Problemen eindeutig nicht diskriminiert. Ganz klare Aussage: Wir wurden in jeder Hinsicht gefördert.
http://diepresse.com/home/wirtschaft...chaft/index.do
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Old July 23rd, 2015, 01:56 PM   #2729
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Deutsche Bahn structure hampers fair competition

http://www.dw.com/en/deutsche-bahn-s...ion/a-18603211
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Old July 23rd, 2015, 02:50 PM   #2730
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I´m sure most of you have seen this episode already but I post it here because of the ICE 3.


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Old July 23rd, 2015, 03:24 PM   #2731
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Heartbreaking stuff.
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Old July 24th, 2015, 02:21 AM   #2732
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Denmark-Germany undersea Fehmarn tunnel gets go-ahead

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33633879
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Old July 24th, 2015, 02:52 AM   #2733
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Given that the travel time between Hamburg and Copenhagen will be reduced by 3 hours and that the Swedes are getting more serious about HSR in their country, I wonder if we will see direct (day) trains between Stockholm and Hamburg somewhere in the next decade.
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Old July 28th, 2015, 12:16 AM   #2734
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For those curious about the Sassnitz rail ferry complex please watch this ghostly piece by Andreas Oelfuss.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k6g-QELPdiY
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Old July 28th, 2015, 06:10 PM   #2735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
While sometimes I cursed that the ride took nominally 3 1/2 hours while in France a similar distance on TGV takes 2 hours,
In France however you have these fast times basically only to/from Paris. SNCF does excellent job connectin Paris with the rest of France. But the moment you want to go from "somewhere not Paris" to "somewhere else not Paris" the service becomes not so great.
I have experienced about as many delays in France as in Germany. However only in France I have experienced a delay of 20 minutes escalating in to not even reaching my destination. There are lines with only two trains a day... Miss one, and you're in trouble.

Getting information about public transport in Germany is a lot easier than in France as well. You can just enter two street adresses in www.bahn.de, and you'll get detailed instructions. Bahn.de has been doing that for a few decades now, while France still doesn't have anything comparable.
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Old July 28th, 2015, 06:11 PM   #2736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
Given that the travel time between Hamburg and Copenhagen will be reduced by 3 hours and that the Swedes are getting more serious about HSR in their country, I wonder if we will see direct (day) trains between Stockholm and Hamburg somewhere in the next decade.
A good hourly service on Hamburg - Copenhagen with connections to trains to Sweden would be sufficient I'd think.
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Old July 28th, 2015, 07:54 PM   #2737
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Quote:
Partial privatisation studies included in DB restructuring
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/p...form-plan.html

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Old July 28th, 2015, 08:30 PM   #2738
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Here's my contribution:

"Grube emphasised that ‘nothing has been decided’, and he wished ‘to make it perfectly clear that we are not considering selling off these companies. On the contrary, we will retain business management control of both DB Arriva and DB Schenker Logistics.’"

For those who haven't read the DB press release, the part privatisation idea only applies to DB Arriva and DB Logisitcs. And it doesn't seem a very exciting idea.
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Old July 28th, 2015, 08:35 PM   #2739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedStriker View Post
Here's my contribution:

"Grube emphasised that ‘nothing has been decided’, and he wished ‘to make it perfectly clear that we are not considering selling off these companies. On the contrary, we will retain business management control of both DB Arriva and DB Schenker Logistics.’"

For those who haven't read the DB press release, the part privatisation idea only applies to DB Arriva and DB Logisitcs. And it doesn't seem a very exciting idea.
So the holding company will relinquish some of its shares? DB Schenker, defo, as one of the largest logistics companies in Europe, would be very appealing... Of course, there is fairly little incentiv to privatise DB at this point. They had a net income of 1.4 billion Euros last year, amid 40 billion in revenue. That is one huge asset other countries would kill to have.
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Old July 28th, 2015, 08:39 PM   #2740
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The DB Schenker Logistics partial privatisation though is not going to include DB Schenker Rail. But yes, DB Schenker Logistics is a beast of a business.
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