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Old July 28th, 2015, 09:12 PM   #2741
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DB Arriva is also very interesting.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 12:31 PM   #2742
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DB should sell off all non-rail businesses, especially those abroad, to fund overdue investments in the railway network in Germany.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 02:59 PM   #2743
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Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
DB should sell off all non-rail businesses, especially those abroad, to fund overdue investments in the railway network in Germany.
Why? If these businesses make money, that is money they can invest in the network in Germany...
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Old July 29th, 2015, 08:20 PM   #2744
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Why? If these businesses make money, that is money they can invest in the network in Germany...
I still feel that DB is focusing on anything but the German rail network.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 10:37 PM   #2745
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I still feel that DB is focusing on anything but the German rail network.
This sounds like mismanagement at the top.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 11:23 PM   #2746
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I wouldn´t call it mismanagement if a company grows to that dimensions.

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Deutsche Bahn AG

Deutsche Bahn describes itself as the second-largest transport company in the world, after the German postal and logistics company Deutsche Post / DHL, and is the largest railway operator and infrastructure owner in Europe. It carries about two billion passengers each year.

Is DB really the world´s second largest transport company after Deutsche Post / DHL?

Can someone here confirm this claim?
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Old July 30th, 2015, 01:03 AM   #2747
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What does this even mean? Transport company for what? Has to be freight otherwise the comparison with DP/DHL wouldn't make any sense. In this regard RZD (1241.6 mio t) transports way more than DB (411.6 mio t) though so by its own definition DB has to be at least third.
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Old July 30th, 2015, 01:43 AM   #2748
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It is indeed a freight-specific reference, the comparison with DHL, and it goes beyond rail cargo operations to include road, air and sea forwarding and transport operations.

I'm guessing that it might be measuring the number of shipments made so that all modes can be considered.

A comparison with the likes of RZD is only possible if one looks at just the rail cargo operations of DB given that RZD is only in the business of rail cargo.
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Old July 30th, 2015, 02:02 AM   #2749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadeye Reloaded View Post
I wouldn´t call it mismanagement if a company grows to that dimensions.
I would. Because it's happened before and DB management is making the exact same mistakes. You might want to read this:

Amazon - The Wreck of the Penn Central
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Old July 30th, 2015, 03:40 AM   #2750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedStriker View Post
It is indeed a freight-specific reference, the comparison with DHL, and it goes beyond rail cargo operations to include road, air and sea forwarding and transport operations.

I'm guessing that it might be measuring the number of shipments made so that all modes can be considered.

A comparison with the likes of RZD is only possible if one looks at just the rail cargo operations of DB given that RZD is only in the business of rail cargo.
The numbers I posted are consolidated for the whole DB AG and it doesn't get more comparable than that. The number of shipments on the other hand is totally arbitrary and doesn't say anything about how much a company actually transports. Those transporting 1 billion letter are certainly smaller than a company transporting a billion parcels.
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Old July 30th, 2015, 08:18 AM   #2751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
I would. Because it's happened before and DB management is making the exact same mistakes. You might want to read this:

Amazon - The Wreck of the Penn Central
The answer to the Penn Central bankruptcy was to create something even bigger, and less efficient...

But maybe reducing the size of DB would be appropriate. There is some research showing that a railway of about the size of NS or SBB is indeed optimal.
(Coincidental these happen to be the two railways that manage to do better than DB...)
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Old July 30th, 2015, 10:32 AM   #2752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
The numbers I posted are consolidated for the whole DB AG and it doesn't get more comparable than that. The number of shipments on the other hand is totally arbitrary and doesn't say anything about how much a company actually transports. Those transporting 1 billion letter are certainly smaller than a company transporting a billion parcels.
Yes but the question about how DB is defining itself as the world's second largest freight transport company came about. And that's why I supposed that this definition may be based around consignments rather than overall tonnage.

I'm not saying that such a measure is a good one. I'm just trying to see if I can explain how the second place spot is defined. And while we're on the topic, how is D-Post/DHL achieving first place? Probably by number of consignments because like DB Schenker, D-Post/DHL ships everything from letters to all sorts of heavy cargo via land, water and air.
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Old July 30th, 2015, 10:33 AM   #2753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
The answer to the Penn Central bankruptcy was to create something even bigger, and less efficient... But maybe reducing the size of DB would be appropriate. There is some research showing that a railway of about the size of NS or SBB is indeed optimal. (Coincidental these happen to be the two railways that manage to do better than DB...)
Don't forget that NS is a passenger-only entity, the former cargo operations of NS now being run by DB Schenker.
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Old July 30th, 2015, 12:21 PM   #2754
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The world's biggest transporters of passengers by rail are of course the state companies of India and China, who else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
But maybe reducing the size of DB would be appropriate. There is some research showing that a railway of about the size of NS or SBB is indeed optimal.
(Coincidental these happen to be the two railways that manage to do better than DB...)
I really marvel about your ability to compare apples with pears. The passenger transport of the Netherlands could well be compared to the passenger transport of Northrhine-Westphalia, both sizewise and regarding agglomeration structure, population density, and distances to be covered. For a model for German-wide transport, one should look to other models.
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Old July 30th, 2015, 01:12 PM   #2755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedStriker View Post
Yes but the question about how DB is defining itself as the world's second largest freight transport company came about. And that's why I supposed that this definition may be based around consignments rather than overall tonnage.

I'm not saying that such a measure is a good one. I'm just trying to see if I can explain how the second place spot is defined. And while we're on the topic, how is D-Post/DHL achieving first place? Probably by number of consignments because like DB Schenker, D-Post/DHL ships everything from letters to all sorts of heavy cargo via land, water and air.
I have never read about DP/DHL as being the largest freight transport company anyway. Largest courier company yes, but never freight transporter.
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Old July 30th, 2015, 01:21 PM   #2756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
I have never read about DP/DHL as being the largest freight transport company anyway. Largest courier company yes, but never freight transporter.
For many years I have seen D-Post/DHL is mentioned as the world's number one freight company when DB comparisons are made, and I suspect that it's DB itself that issues press releases defining things in this way and subsequently media outlets regurgitate the same information. (Or misinformation if you don't think that it's incorrect).
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Old July 30th, 2015, 04:31 PM   #2757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
Why? If these businesses make money, that is money they can invest in the network in Germany...
There is no point in a state-owned company being invested in all sorts of commercial activities all over the world while this very same company fails its core task. Germany needs a railway that runs smoothly. For that it takes a network operator which is focused on this specific task only.
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Old July 30th, 2015, 05:30 PM   #2758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
The world's biggest transporters of passengers by rail are of course the state companies of India and China, who else.
Japan. In fact, Japan has the clear lead over everyone else in the world:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_u...ics_by_country

Look at the table for number of passengers - Japan = 22.6 billion. India = 8.9 billion. Germany = 2.3 billion. China = 2.1 billion (2013 figures, though). For passenger km travelled, of course larger countries like India and China dominate.

China has an amazing amount of rail freight, though. 57% modal share, now that's really impressive.
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Old July 30th, 2015, 06:13 PM   #2759
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Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
Japan. In fact, Japan has the clear lead over everyone else in the world:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_u...ics_by_country

Look at the table for number of passengers - Japan = 22.6 billion. India = 8.9 billion. Germany = 2.3 billion. China = 2.1 billion (2013 figures, though). For passenger km travelled, of course larger countries like India and China dominate.

China has an amazing amount of rail freight, though. 57% modal share, now that's really impressive.
This is, however, partially due to the definition of "rail". Many Japanese train routes, including hugely busy and purely urban lines like the Yamanote (5% of the entire Japanese rail passenger total), would be under the subordination of Metro authorities in other countries. Take Seoul´s Metro, which includes suburban rail, and some longer lines of the Shanghai and Beijing metros could be defined as such too.
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Old July 30th, 2015, 06:35 PM   #2760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
There is no point in a state-owned company being invested in all sorts of commercial activities all over the world while this very same company fails its core task. Germany needs a railway that runs smoothly. For that it takes a network operator which is focused on this specific task only.
This is a very good argument and is one that is put forward by many in the UK who are critical of most of the railway operations in continental Europe, including DB, SNCF, SNCB, FS and so on.

Ideally in Europe all of the railway networks ought to be run by bodies that are independent of any train operator. And I think this will happen eventually but we're just not quite there yet.
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