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Old September 29th, 2015, 04:56 PM   #2781
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The ordered double-deck trains are capable of a maximum speed of no more than 160 km/h. Therefore it wouldn't make sense to operate them on a 200 km/h line. Current IC services operate at up to 200 km/h, REs mostly at 160 km/h. On the Wikipedia it says that DB wants to replace all current ICs with double-deck trains long-term so I guess (or hope) those will be able to go faster than 160.
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Old September 29th, 2015, 05:28 PM   #2782
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On the Bombardier Twindexx page (Wikipedia) it is mentioned that the train sets are in principle capable of running 189 km/h. Not sure if even 200 km/h is possible.
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Old September 29th, 2015, 05:34 PM   #2783
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Not many double deckers are capable of those speeds. Anyway, 189 would do fine, the operational difference with 200 is close to nothing.
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Old September 29th, 2015, 06:07 PM   #2784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autostädter View Post
The ordered double-deck trains are capable of a maximum speed of no more than 160 km/h. Therefore it wouldn't make sense to operate them on a 200 km/h line. Current IC services operate at up to 200 km/h, REs mostly at 160 km/h. On the Wikipedia it says that DB wants to replace all current ICs with double-deck trains long-term so I guess (or hope) those will be able to go faster than 160.
IC services that go 200kph or faster will be upgraded to ICE per the long distance concept:
So the fact that the IC2 trains aren't high speed trains is not a problem. The whole core network will be branded "ICE" and will use ICE-1/2/3/4 sets. The IC network will fill in the gaps, and will mostly use IC2 sets.

http://www.deutschebahn.com/file/de/...hrskonzept.pdf

It's a pity they didn't order Twindex Swiss Express sets for the IC services though. But we will probably see those in Germany anyway.
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Old September 29th, 2015, 06:27 PM   #2785
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It's true that some IC lines will become ICE lines, such as Hamburg-Bremen-Ruhr area and further south.

But it's also true that there are lines, where IC2 are planned and the slower top speed may become a problem. For example IC line 26 (Hamburg-Hannover-HSL-Kassel-Marburg-Frankfurt) is planned with IC2, but today rides on the HSL (vmax=250/280 km/h). So either you "downgrade" the IC to the old line between Hannover and Kassel or you order faster double-deck trains.

Then there is also the issue with the IC 77 (Amsterdam-Hannover-HSL-Berlin), where nobody so far knows which train sets will be used there in the future. In the long distance concept it says it will be an ICE. However, they didn't order an ICE4 with Dutch electrification equipment so far. So it will either be an ICE 3 (406?, problems with availability AFAIK) which can easily cope with the HSL between Hannover and Berlin or it will be an IC2 as well, then there is the speed issue again.
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Old September 29th, 2015, 10:00 PM   #2786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
As for the pics of the double-decker ICs, they remind me of current REs. I hope they will prove a bit more up to the standard of long-distance travel than that.
Bombardier had one on display at InnoTrans, comfort was similar to the newly refurbished Intercity coaches ("ICmod") as can be found in the Amsterdam - Berlin train.
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Old September 29th, 2015, 11:03 PM   #2787
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Am I the only one who prefers the RegionalBahn train livery? I really like that red, whereas the white doesn't look as appealing to me (except on the ICE trains). White is a problematic colour if it isn't kept very clean. At least the red generally looks good even with a bit of dirt on it.
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Old September 29th, 2015, 11:33 PM   #2788
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I agree on the white problem. German ICEs are generally not cleaned often enough and quickly develop a shimmer of brown. By contrast, Turkey's YHT, while also white, still shine proud.
You do not have that problem with red: even rather old Thalys still seem proper in their color scheme, as do DB's regional trains.
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Old September 30th, 2015, 08:43 AM   #2789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by telemaxx View Post
But it's also true that there are lines, where IC2 are planned and the slower top speed may become a problem. For example IC line 26 (Hamburg-Hannover-HSL-Kassel-Marburg-Frankfurt) is planned with IC2, but today rides on the HSL (vmax=250/280 km/h). So either you "downgrade" the IC to the old line between Hannover and Kassel or you order faster double-deck trains.
Or you just have it run slower on the HSL. I think one of the idea is for DB to offer the IC as a slower but cheaper alternative for people who don't want to pay for the ICE, but who DB would rather not lose to long distance buses.

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Then there is also the issue with the IC 77 (Amsterdam-Hannover-HSL-Berlin), where nobody so far knows which train sets will be used there in the future..
They have ordered more baureihe 407. I think they intend to use these.
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Old September 30th, 2015, 09:26 AM   #2790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
Or you just have it run slower on the HSL.
But that decreases capacity, so depending on the timetable you might get a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
I think one of the idea is for DB to offer the IC as a slower but cheaper alternative for people who don't want to pay for the ICE, but who DB would rather not lose to long distance buses.
Yes, that is the plan. The IC2 is significantly cheaper to buy and to run than an ICE, so they can offer cheaper fares.

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Originally Posted by K_ View Post
They have ordered more baureihe 407. I think they intend to use these.
They ordered more than the 17? I haven't heard anything about that and I can't find any information on that.
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Old September 30th, 2015, 09:51 AM   #2791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by telemaxx View Post
They ordered more than the 17? I haven't heard anything about that and I can't find any information on that.
Maybe I'm misinterpreting the fourth slide here:
http://www.deutschebahn.com/file/de/...hrskonzept.pdf
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Old September 30th, 2015, 11:50 AM   #2792
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Ah, yes, you're misinterpreting it. The 17 407 have mostly already been delivered, so there won't be more than the 17 407.
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Old September 30th, 2015, 07:23 PM   #2793
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There will be a small part of the market that will always seek the cheapest possible way to travel. Young backpackers without deep pockets, for instance, that don't mind an 11h-long circuitous Berlin-Amsterdam bus route to save € 15 or € 20 on the ticket.
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Old October 1st, 2015, 10:29 AM   #2794
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Whether or not the IC really are so much slower depends on the different lines in Germany. The Berlin-Hanover HSL for example only allows for 250 kmh on rather short stretches. The IC is capable of 200 kmh. Therefore a non-stop ICE from Spandau to Wolfsburg takes 55 minutes, whereas an IC takes 62. While I do not belong to the "speed doesn't matter" crowd, it is hard to consider 7 extra minutes a disaster.
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Old October 1st, 2015, 01:22 PM   #2795
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The point is that the new IC 2 can only run 160 km/h, so that is a much larger difference.

So in the future you either order IC 2 that can run faster up to 200 km/h or you don't use them on HSL.
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Old October 2nd, 2015, 12:08 AM   #2796
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The plan was to get the IC2 stock first approved for 160 kph running, and later on increase to 189 kph if tests go well. "First get it running, then get it to run faster"
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Old October 2nd, 2015, 09:43 AM   #2797
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Well, for the first 27 train sets this is not possible as the locomotives (BR 146.2) are not capable of running faster than 160 km/h. For the next batch, a newer loco will be used (BR 147), which may theoretically ride 189 km/h.
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Old October 2nd, 2015, 03:56 PM   #2798
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Well, here is a video report of my farewall journey with the CityNightLine train between Munich and Berlin. Deutsche Bahn will cancel that service later in December.
Between Munich Ostbahnhof and Berlin Lichtenberg the train was routed via Augsburg, Ansbach, Würzburg, Aschaffenburg, Hanau, Gießen, Kassel, Eichenberg, Kreiensen, Hildesheim, Magdeburg, Potsdam, Berlin-Westend, Flughafen Berlin Schönefeld



































In case the video does not work, here is the direct link to Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFU7dFlywZk
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Last edited by doc7austin; October 2nd, 2015 at 04:10 PM.
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Old October 2nd, 2015, 08:34 PM   #2799
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Quote:
Originally Posted by telemaxx View Post
Well, for the first 27 train sets this is not possible as the locomotives (BR 146.2) are not capable of running faster than 160 km/h. For the next batch, a newer loco will be used (BR 147), which may theoretically ride 189 km/h.
They could always send those locos to freight services and order more 147's for IC2, right?
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Old October 10th, 2015, 12:18 PM   #2800
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DB explores shake-up of Arriva and Schenker

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...divisions.html
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