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Old October 26th, 2016, 01:07 AM   #3101
Surel
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A sad evidence of how a monopolist can do a lot of things to hamper competition. Even with NX being the rightful winner, they simply can't make up on their offer anymore due to the lengthy procurement process.

Maybe they could've done so if Stadler FLIRT EMU's had been a part of their bid, as that model has already been certified for operation in Germany. The Skoda RegioPanther which NX wanted to use however, is not.

Let's see what the authorities do next. They'll probably extend the contract with DB Regio for a few years while they start up a new tendering process, maybe taking the rolling stock aspect out of it altogether.
But that is just another aspect of the market protection. Of course they don't want Skoda units to be operated on the German market, showing a good sport. So why not kill two bugs with one shot. The certification authorities work hand in hand with DB and the incumbent producers.
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Old October 26th, 2016, 12:07 PM   #3102
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So may be a little bit exaggerated ?
We have official warnings by the German and Austrian foreign ministries.
Something like that is not published without prior due diligence. Austria and Germany has consulates in these countries, so they will have onsite knowledge on that.

There is a big discussion on a German forum:

http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/for...66100,page=all

In my eyes it is quite a stunt by webeagle12 to use rude words to respond to my information. I am very well aware of the visa regime over last decades.

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Old October 26th, 2016, 05:04 PM   #3103
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But that is just another aspect of the market protection. Of course they don't want Skoda units to be operated on the German market, showing a good sport. So why not kill two bugs with one shot. The certification authorities work hand in hand with DB and the incumbent producers.
I don't think that's the case, as DB themselves have bought trains from Skoda very recently: the NIM Express.
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Old October 26th, 2016, 05:34 PM   #3104
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More often than not foreign companies simply don't understand the business culture in other countries.

Germany is a market where EVERYTHING in your bid into the tiniest detail must be prepared and fixed before you come forward with the bid. In addition you have generally slow decision making in Germany (because decisions are commonly made by consensus among the management board, not by a top-down decision of a CEO and every single detail is being examined). Once the contract is made, there is no room for renegotiation.
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Old October 26th, 2016, 06:04 PM   #3105
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More often than not foreign companies simply don't understand the business culture in other countries.

Germany is a market where EVERYTHING in your bid into the tiniest detail must be prepared and fixed before you come forward with the bid. In addition you have generally slow decision making in Germany (because decisions are commonly made by consensus among the management board, not by a top-down decision of a CEO and every single detail is being examined). Once the contract is made, there is no room for renegotiation.
Actually, this situation likes to be a copy paste case of what you see in the Czech Republic.

The state authorities are being misused for appealing in order to cause problems, costs, cancellation or walking away of the competitor.

Due to this, in fact, there's very little finality even as the contract is made.
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Old October 29th, 2016, 01:47 PM   #3106
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Moscow-Berlin Talgo train

Ticket sales for Moscow-Berlin Talgo train begins
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Will open on December 17 with the Spanish Talgo technology and shortened by nearly five hours travel time, today announced the Russian company RZD.
The trains, which will run under the name of "Swift" (Like the other Talgo trains Moscow-Nizhni Novgorod) will change gauge in Brest (Belarus) in just 20 minutes, while until now the trains that make this route takes almost two hours on this task.
The distance between Moscow and Berlin will be covered in 20 hours 14 minutes versus 24 hours 49 minutes it currently takes.
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Old October 29th, 2016, 01:53 PM   #3107
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Talgo compositions

More technical explanations of the Talgo compositions.

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During the last months of this year they will begin to circulate between Moscow and Berlin three compositions Talgo with 20 trailers. The four others were scheduled for Moscow-Kiev, and now make Moscow-Nizhny Novgorod under the trade name Strizh are also formed by 20 trailers: 2 first class, 9 second class, 5 sleeping berths, Restaurant, Cafeteria and 2 technical cars with generators; with a total of 414 seats.

Trains to Berlin are variable gauge (standard / russian), also have "Pendular by Talgo" (not tilting, cars are not inclined supported by the boogies but hanging: like a pendulum). t is already approved in Germany and Poland (including gauge changer) and are currently conducting tests for Russian approval (Results presentation 2Q2016 page 8).

The gauge change will be held in the gauge changer that Talgo has built in Brest (Belarus).

The "rodales" Talgo technology (not boogies are, no axes, they are independent wheels) incorporate a new system gauge change different from that used for the last 47 years in Spain, due to the presence of ice in them.

Video gauge change in Brest

In addition, and to run at 200 km/h in Germany, also incorporate electromagnetic brake skid. In a stand of variable gauge!



Trains could have counted on locomotives variable gauge as the spanish 130 series but RZD has preferred to use conventional locomotives of each country.
Certainly when dealing with night trains shall consider the time savings is not as important. Yet the new trains made the journey of 1,871 km in 18 hours (104 km/h on average, Talgo says) when now it takes 26 hours.



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Old October 29th, 2016, 06:18 PM   #3108
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According to the Danish press, will the German authorities build the new railroad between Puttgarden and Lübeck to 200 km/h.
Thus the travel time between Copenhagen and Hamburg will be brought down to 2,5 hours.

The traveltime today, with the ferry, is 4,5 hours.
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Old October 30th, 2016, 03:57 PM   #3109
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Ticket sales for Moscow-Berlin Talgo train begins
According to my sources, the Talgo cannot be booked for journeys starting or terminating in Germany.
If you do not believe me: try booking this train on pass.rzd.ru; it cannot be booked from or to Germany.

German station may be opened for reservation anytime soon or not at all.
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Old October 31st, 2016, 12:51 PM   #3110
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The news in English, and written by Keith Barrow:

Moscow - Berlin Talgos set for December launch

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Russian Railways (RZD) confirmed that Federal Passenger Company will introduce variable-gauge Talgo trains on Moscow - Berlin overnight services on December 17, when journey times between the Russian and German capitals will be reduced by around four-and-a-half hours.

Operating under the brand name Strizh (Swift), the services will link Moscow Kursk and Berlin East with intermediate stops at Smolensk, Orsha, Minsk, Brest, Terespol, Warsaw, Poznan, Rzepin and Frankfurt (Oder).

With the introduction of the new trains the westbound journey time will be cut from 24h 49min to 20h 14min while the eastbound train will complete the trip in 20h 35min, compared with 25h 56min at present.

The services will operate twice weekly, departing Moscow Kursk at 13.05 on Saturdays and Sundays, arriving at Berlin East at 07.19 (local time) the following day. The return working will depart from Berlin at 18.50 on Sundays and Mondays, arriving in Moscow on 17.25.

Each 20-car train will be formed of 18 passenger coaches and two technical cars, with dining and bistro cars, and a mixture of first and second class seating coaches and sleeping cars. Deluxe sleeping cars are also provided with en-suite facilities.
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Old October 31st, 2016, 05:08 PM   #3111
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Why Kursk station and not Beloruskaya as usual for trains coming from that route ? Is Kurskaya located also on the métro circular line ?

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Old November 7th, 2016, 03:48 PM   #3112
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DB Netz and EBA doesn't allow Czech Railways to operate the Škoda 109e with a train set on the Dresden-Berlin-Hamburg line, although the engine has been approved by EBA. The same old story.

http://ekonomika.idnes.cz/ceske-drah...ko-doprava_suj
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Old November 8th, 2016, 08:55 AM   #3113
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Quote:
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Why Kursk station and not Beloruskaya as usual for trains coming from that route ? Is Kurskaya located also on the métro circular line ?
According to http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/for...php?30,7988682 , RZD had just recently (1 1/2 years ago, when the Talgo project was already well under way) modernized the Bjelorussian Station and raised the platform height to a level that is not compatible with Talgos, so now they have to do an extra round around town.
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Old November 8th, 2016, 11:51 AM   #3114
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DB Netz and EBA doesn't allow Czech Railways to operate the Škoda 109e with a train set on the Dresden-Berlin-Hamburg line, although the engine has been approved by EBA. The same old story.
There are numerous differences between a Czech and a German 109E. A German 109E is probably not allowed on the Czech network either. For once they both may lack the required train control systems and the pantographs are different.
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Old November 8th, 2016, 01:18 PM   #3115
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Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
There are numerous differences between a Czech and a German 109E. A German 109E is probably not allowed on the Czech network either. For once they both may lack the required train control systems and the pantographs are different.
I am somewhat convinced that CD didn't just take their 109E and tried to have it homologated in Germany.
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Old November 8th, 2016, 01:59 PM   #3116
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There must have been a crucial difference, because if they were identical to the German 109Es the EBA couldn't have refused certification. A similar European law requires cooperation from DB Netz if someone wants to run an international service.
DB did something similar in the past: In an effort to keep DB Cargo out of Austria the class 152 was refused for Austria because the dynamic axle loads were deemed to high. DB then changed part of the class 152 order to Tauruses (class 182). Because those Tauruses were 100% identical to the Austrian class 1016, those locos couldn't be refused access to Austria.
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Old November 8th, 2016, 06:20 PM   #3117
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There are numerous differences between a Czech and a German 109E. A German 109E is probably not allowed on the Czech network either. For once they both may lack the required train control systems and the pantographs are different.
I don't know about the differences. The 109E was designed for the Czech, German, Austrian, Slovakian and Hungarian market specifically. It was designed to be interoperable on those markets.

But this issue is about the Czech 109E, its homologised in Germany by EBA and can be used there. I read a bit more and the problem is not EBA, but DB-Netz. Apparently, even if the loco is approved by EBA and TSI the DB-Netz can still refuse it on its tracks. The Germans just don't want to allow it go on the track between Dresden and Hamburg with a train set. That is, they argue that it is not allowed there with carriages, because when it hauls carriages it would destroy the rails or something like that.

In a press release from Škoda is said that its DB-Netz that is not willing to allow the loco be used with wagons or carriages and that it conditions it on max speed of 120 km/h, talking about railway bridges compatibility. Thus in fact it is DB that is hindering direct competition on the Dresden - Hamburg line via its DB-Netz subsidiary. ČD would simply offer much better deal on that line for the German customers than the DB.
http://www.skoda.cz/cs/press-room/ar...ti-az-200-kmh/

Last edited by Surel; November 8th, 2016 at 06:49 PM. Reason: info
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Old November 8th, 2016, 06:30 PM   #3118
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There must have been a crucial difference, because if they were identical to the German 109Es the EBA couldn't have refused certification. A similar European law requires cooperation from DB Netz if someone wants to run an international service.
DB did something similar in the past: In an effort to keep DB Cargo out of Austria the class 152 was refused for Austria because the dynamic axle loads were deemed to high. DB then changed part of the class 152 order to Tauruses (class 182). Because those Tauruses were 100% identical to the Austrian class 1016, those locos couldn't be refused access to Austria.
Yes, I guess that's the reason why ČD wants to lease 10 loco's for this track. Once they would use the same loco's as the DB, the DB-Netz would have one possibility less to hinder it. Although they might make troubles with the carriages perhaps. I dunno.

The Dresden - Hamburg line is a long story, because it is quite profitable and ČD wanted to enter on this line already 20 years ago with Pendolino's.
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Old November 9th, 2016, 07:33 AM   #3119
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I Thus in fact it is DB that is hindering direct competition on the Dresden - Hamburg line via its DB-Netz subsidiary. ČD would simply offer much better deal on that line for the German customers than the DB.
The Prague - Dresden - Hamburg trains are fully integrated in the DB long distance network, so this is not a matter of DB trying to hinder competition, as CD is not offering a "different deal". Tickets for Dresden - Hamburg will cost the same whether you're in a DB or in a CD carriage...
CD does want to speed the trains up, and wants to get rid of the loco change in Dresden. Last thing I read is that they were going to lease locomotives for the purpose, as the Skoda locos are only allowed to go 160 kph in Germany.
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Old November 11th, 2016, 04:11 PM   #3120
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Is it true that the new ICE-4 trains will only be capable of 250 km/h? If that's the case it is a pity to invest over 5 billion in high speed trains that are not even capable to use the existing infrastructure at maximum...
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