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Old August 16th, 2017, 03:14 PM   #3241
Wilhem275
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The tunnel is made specifically to let ICE and freight trains bypass Rastatt. The collapsed point is not just the Rheintal line dive-under, it is also the beginning of the whole bypass tunnel, so a diversion there would mean rebuilding the entire thing (unbelievable).

What Christian meant is a temporary diversion of the surface line, to leave the crossing area free for works.
I must disagree with this, because building an even slow and temporary set of tracks requires weeks at the very best, a railway can't just be laid upon random terrains (plus ballast, overhead wiring and poles, signalling).
It's almost 2 km of greenfield construction, to go around the tunnel ramps.

Once the line is closed, digging up a 100 meters hole is a matter of days, it is often done to replace underpasses even in weekend closures.
The real problem is that there is no approved design for that. The designed dive-under here was by means of a TBM round tunnel, while with cut-and-cover there should be an underground "box", pretty standard in design and construction but which nobody ever designed in that point, and which can't be improvised (no calculations, no investigations on terrain, water and whatever...).
It would be more an engineering than a construction effort, in fact.
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Old August 16th, 2017, 05:25 PM   #3242
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Locomore’s Berlin to Stuttgart service has been taken over by fellow open access operator LEO Express.

From August 24, the former Locomore service between Berlin and Stuttgart will resume with the Czech firm as the operator – under the Locomore brand – and German bus operator FlixBus selling tickets.
More in Global Rail News
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Old August 16th, 2017, 05:40 PM   #3243
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I was always wondering why Leo is so interested in entering the Polish market, but not the German one, which would be both easier (no PKP making procedural problems because they don't like any competition - there are already private passenger long-distance railway carriers in Germany, so it must be easier) and more proficient (more passengers used to traveling by railway and lack of state-subsidized long-distance trains). Now they do the latter :-)
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Old August 16th, 2017, 06:05 PM   #3244
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why Leo is so interested in entering the Polish market, but not the German one
...due to the labour costs perhaps?

Btw. The tickets are already on sale @flixbus

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Berlin Hbf (Zug)
Frankfurt Süd Bf (Zug)
Durchgeführt von LEO Express GmbH
4:41 Std.
Zug
9,90 €
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Old August 16th, 2017, 07:55 PM   #3245
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Does Leo also sell the tickets through their own sales system?
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Old August 17th, 2017, 03:26 PM   #3246
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yes. But trains only run Fridays to Mondays, beginning 24 Aug.
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Old August 17th, 2017, 07:11 PM   #3247
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Wouldn't this amount to bypassing Rastatt? The German public is quite sensitive to that.
It's bypassing it anyway, in the 3rd dimension!

Unless they are putting a station under the town centre in the tunnel?
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Old August 17th, 2017, 07:40 PM   #3248
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Strange, Berlin to Frankfurt shows me no connections. Stuttgart to Frankfurt works fine.
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Old August 20th, 2017, 10:34 AM   #3249
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@Rastatt major disruption

a minor non electrifed line single track line is used for run some trains, they shut down all regular local trains to get capacity for the major traffic, looks funny a ICE pulled from a diesel locomotive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Blyqd1K28Vo
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Old August 20th, 2017, 05:15 PM   #3250
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But from what I understand, those ICEs were not regular train service, but a technical ride without passengers, just to transport the vehicles from Switzerland to Germany.

DB Fernverkehr has workshops in Basel, where they can service the ICEs, but maybe they had to many trains there, or they had to take them to Germany for other reasons.

By the way, ICE pulled by a diesel locomotive is nothing new



Are the ICEs equipped with coupling that would make it possible to power everything on the board (like heating, AC, lighting) from an external locomotive?
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Old August 24th, 2017, 02:57 AM   #3251
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Latest news I've heard says that the "Rheintalbahn" will be interrupted until october 7th, due to the problem near Rastatt.
After filling with concrete the tunnel section, they plan to build over it a massive concrete platform, about 150m long and 15m wide. Only then rails can be reinstalled and service resumed.
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Old August 25th, 2017, 08:54 AM   #3252
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Are the ICEs equipped with coupling that would make it possible to power everything on the board (like heating, AC, lighting) from an external locomotive?
The emergency coupling on the ICEs doesn't have power transfer, it's a simple mechanical adapter from Scharfenberg to Schaku. It also has to be manually installed by the way (it's carried on each train though).

The relevant point of failure in not having power isn't AC or lighting but operating the doors. In emergencies ICEs have occasionally been pulled into stations by diesels with passengers with the doors still operational on battery power; otherwise a diesel-pulled ICE can only carry passengers if it still can draw power from a catenary (has also been done, e.g. in case of multiple engine failure).

There are also ICE-TD with diesel engines which could in theory be useful now. However DB took these out of operation end of last year and (unsuccessfully so far) tried to sell them. Three of these units are leased to DSB for operations between Hamburg and Copenhagen, at least two have been scrapped, up to 15 or so are in storage.

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DB Fernverkehr has workshops in Basel, where they can service the ICEs, but maybe they had to many trains there, or they had to take them to Germany for other reasons.
All ICE operations south of Rastatt have been suspended. Between Baden-Baden and Basel only ICs are still running.
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Old August 25th, 2017, 02:22 PM   #3253
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The emergency coupling on the ICEs doesn't have power transfer, it's a simple mechanical adapter from Scharfenberg to Schaku.
The relevant point of failure in not having power isn't AC or lighting but operating the doors.
Would it have been so difficult to hide a powerconnector somewhere under the bow doors where you can connect the UIC cable from the locomotive in case of failure? Thus you could power the doors, lighting and HVAC.

Apart from the doors, I think working HVAC is also essential for any train type lacking openable windows. Temperatures inside will rise to unbearable levels very quickly, so I'm suprised a back-up connection like this isn't mandatory.
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Old August 25th, 2017, 08:19 PM   #3254
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Would it have been so difficult to hide a powerconnector somewhere under the bow doors where you can connect the UIC cable from the locomotive in case of failure? Thus you could power the doors, lighting and HVAC.
The trains' systems would need to be compatible too. I don't know wether the ICE's power bus is compatible with standard HEP as provided by a locomotive. furthermore I doubt that a single diesel can power the AC on an ICE...
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Old August 25th, 2017, 08:26 PM   #3255
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Would it have been so difficult to hide a powerconnector somewhere under the bow doors where you can connect the UIC cable from the locomotive in case of failure?
UIC 568/558 only transmits data, it's not made for power transmission in any way.

AC is considered a luxury in Germany, not a must-have. The temperature in a ICE without AC doesn't really rise much beyond 45-50°C anyway, which are perfectly normal summer temperatures in Germany (...outside shadow). Passengers also do not have any legal recourse to claim damages in case of non-working ACs; criminal cases for supposed negligent health damage have also been struck down since there has been no proven actual health damage to passengers.
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Old August 25th, 2017, 11:30 PM   #3256
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Originally Posted by kato2k8 View Post
The relevant point of failure in not having power isn't AC or lighting but operating the doors. In emergencies ICEs have occasionally been pulled into stations by diesels with passengers with the doors still operational on battery power; otherwise a diesel-pulled ICE can only carry passengers if it still can draw power from a catenary (has also been done, e.g. in case of multiple engine failure).
But even without power, it's always possible to use the emergency door opening.

If the passengers are afraid of doing it or they don't know how to do it (although it shouldn't be the case, because it sometimes has to be used immediately by the nearest person e.g. in case of fire, that's why those levers or valves are always red and equipped with clear instructions what to do and that's also why they must be locked in tunnels - in case of fire in a tunnel, it's most important to leave the tunnel and get the fire out of it as fast as possible rather than to stop and evacuate on foot while the fire in a tunnel spreads very fast and kills everyone before they manage to leave it), there is still the train staff on the board.

But, of course, in such a case it wouldn't be possible to pull such train with passengers, at least not further than to the first stop. The door which once has been opened the emergency way, rather can't be closed without the power. And the train can't carry passengers with open doors.

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The trains' systems would need to be compatible too. I don't know wether the ICE's power bus is compatible with standard HEP as provided by a locomotive. furthermore I doubt that a single diesel can power the AC on an ICE...
1. But then it was possible to make it compatible on the ICE.
2. If a single diesel can power the AC on a train with carriages, then I can see no reason why it couldn't do it for an ICE.

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AC is considered a luxury in Germany, not a must-have.
Well, on a train where you can't open the window, it's rather a must-have.

Although maybe it would be better to equip the windows with a part which can be opened by the train staff in case of AC failure (normally they are locked with a "square" key, which is, as they say, possible to open with a door handle, but it's enough to stop those who would try opening the windows with working AC not understanding how the AC works). In Poland most of the public transport vehicles with AC has this possibility.

I was once travelling on an ICE, where a whole open-space compartment was taken out of use due to an AC failure... It was a bit crazy. After all, in case of crowd, some of the passengers would definitely prefer to sit in the part of the train without the AC (especially if it's not very hot) rather than to stand in the crowd in the other parts of the train.

45-50 degrees Celsius *in shadow* (and the interior of the train is definitely in shadow) is absolutely not normal for this part of Europe. The temperatures in summer rarely reach 40 degrees, it's usually up to 30 degrees (sometimes a few degrees above). Sometimes also less than 20 degrees. Between 20 and 30 degrees is the standard summer temperature during the day.
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Old August 26th, 2017, 01:16 AM   #3257
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Originally Posted by kato2k8 View Post
The emergency coupling on the ICEs doesn't have power transfer, it's a simple mechanical adapter from Scharfenberg to Schaku.
Scharfenberg and Schaku are the same thing... Schaku is an abbreviation for Scharfenbergkupplung
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Old August 26th, 2017, 09:11 AM   #3258
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Yeah, that was a brain fart. Meant "from Schraubenkupplung to Schaku".
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Old August 26th, 2017, 10:36 AM   #3259
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45-50 degrees Celsius *in shadow* (and the interior of the train is definitely in shadow) is absolutely not normal for this part of Europe. The temperatures in summer rarely reach 40 degrees, it's usually up to 30 degrees (sometimes a few degrees above). Sometimes also less than 20 degrees. Between 20 and 30 degrees is the standard summer temperature during the day.
Well think again. You are inside a metal can that is not in shadow, but in the sun. Think about how nicely metal gets hot when in the open sun. Therefore the interior of a train can get much hotter than the outside temperature in the shade. And obviously, these cases happened in hot summer spells of measured outside temps of 30°+. Nonetheless, I agree with the rest of what you say. The well-pubicized cases when DB managed to fry the passengers has led to some over-anxiety in other cases, when carriages without AC are hot, but not likely to make you faint.
The old AC in ICE1 and 2 worked in such a way that when it did not manage to cool the inside to the planned temperature (which happened as of outsides temp. in the mid-30s), it simply shut itself down, rather than cooling as best it could. DB has replaced these systems with one more equipped to deal with the age of global heating, to my knowledge.
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Old August 26th, 2017, 07:40 PM   #3260
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2. If a single diesel can power the AC on a train with carriages, then I can see no reason why it couldn't do it for an ICE.
A single diesel probably can't. The Zürich - Munchen ECs are pulled by two locomotives because one can't deliver enough HEP. And that's not a very long train...
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