daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old December 5th, 2017, 05:48 PM   #3381
flierfy
Registered User
 
flierfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,886
Likes (Received): 296

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Polman View Post
Was that the promised date? They started building on it back in the days that we were dancing the Macarena, Diana was still alive and the Belgiums still had capital punishment. And we paid with Guilders, Francs, Marks...

That's really an excessive long time, even to Dutch standards, even with the construction halt in between for 4 years.
Early works were done in conjunction with the construction of a motorway. By that time the project was still in limbo as it lacked the commitment by decision makers. The final go ahead came no earlier than 2005. From that time on the Erfurt to Ebensfeld line was always meant to be put into service by 2017. This promise was kept.
__________________
Rippachtal.de
flierfy no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old December 5th, 2017, 07:22 PM   #3382
da_scotty
Registered User
 
da_scotty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Oss/Delft
Posts: 3,365
Likes (Received): 792

It might be on time, but it's not that strange if you push back the finish date. Look at the tunnel to denmark, the paperwork alone (there was a picture somewhere.. shelves full of it) takes ages.

If you start planning today and say it's going to finish in 2035 it may well be on time, but in a normal (not even chinese style) building tempo, it could be 2025. I would still say it's 10yrs to late.
__________________
Student at Delft University of Technology specializing in Transport & Infrastructure and Airport Design.

touya liked this post
da_scotty no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2017, 07:48 PM   #3383
Richard_P
Registered User
 
Richard_P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Sesame Street
Posts: 4,803
Likes (Received): 2588

Great things are happening and no one commented. So in short Nürnberg - Erfurt NBS/ABS was inaugurated reshaping traffic patterns on München - Berlin corridor, further information’s here (click). And from December timetable change ICE 4 units started regular operations, earlier only limited test operation was undertaken. Further details here (click), operations of Berlin -München services using ICE 4 sets are planned for next year
Richard_P no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2017, 08:15 PM   #3384
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,539
Likes (Received): 21253

Last week there was an accident between a cargo and regional passenger train near Duisburg; what are the preliminary explanations?
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2017, 09:19 PM   #3385
Richard_P
Registered User
 
Richard_P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Sesame Street
Posts: 4,803
Likes (Received): 2588

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Last week there was an accident between a cargo and regional passenger train near Duisburg; what are the preliminary explanations?
"Der Regionalzug hätte halten müssen und den Gleisabschnitt nicht befahren dürfen, sagt ein Sprecher der Bundesstelle für Eisenbahn-Unfalluntersuchungen in Bonn der Deutschen Presse-Agentur.
Der vor dem Personenzug fahrende Güterzug habe dagegen ordnungsgemäß gehalten und auf das Signal zur Einfahrt in den Bahnhof Meerbusch-Osterath gewartet. Dies sei aber keine Schuldzuweisung an den Lokführer der Regionalbahn. Noch ist nicht klar, ob die Signale an der Strecke richtig geschaltet waren. Waren sie falsch geschaltet, könnte es auch noch ein technischer Defekt oder ein Bedienungsfehler im Stellwerk gewesen sein."

Source


So most probably classic SPAD, malfunction of signalling is also examined but this is less likely to be the case. Either way official investigation is underway and before it finished there won't be clear indication who is to be blamed.
__________________

DanielFA liked this post
Richard_P no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2017, 12:21 AM   #3386
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

What I have understood so far is that the National Express driver was given permission to pass the signal at danger, and proceed on sight. Due to a communications cockup the responsible signaller thought that the track was empty and that he was looking at a track circuit defect.
__________________
We are shaping the future

Richard_P liked this post
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2017, 09:03 AM   #3387
M-NL
Mixed-mode traveller
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,158
Likes (Received): 274

Combined with a point based safety system, like PZB, the biggest risk when using a concept like 'Ersatzsignal' to pass signals at danger is that once you pass the signal the system does not enforce a speed limit anymore and it is up to the driver.
Line based systems, like LZB and ETCS, would not have allowed this. Even an archaic system like Dutch ATB would have enforced a 40 km/h speed limit, which is sufficient to bring a train to a halt within a short distance.
__________________
Public transport: Mode of transport that takes to much time to take you from the place you're not currently located, to the place you didn't want to go to, at a time that doesn't really suit you.

DanielFA liked this post
M-NL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2017, 10:48 AM   #3388
azimsazeh
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 3
Likes (Received): 0

Good to see some info about this projects
__________________
قیمت گچ های سمنان و ساوه | شرکت عظیم سازه برنا
azimsazeh no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2017, 03:58 PM   #3389
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,539
Likes (Received): 21253

It seems all of the recent passenger train crashes with injuries or deaths in Germany were SPAD incidents.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!

DanielFA liked this post
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2017, 08:56 AM   #3390
M-NL
Mixed-mode traveller
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,158
Likes (Received): 274

Indeed, it seems that pretty much all recent train crashes in Germany revolve around the limitations of the signalling system and the limitation or lack of PZB.

However do realise that the situation in a lot of other countries isn't much better. The Belgian and UK legacy systems do not enforce speed limits and only at the potentially most dangerous locations in the Netherlands SPAD protection is fitted, all other signals can be passed at danger as long as you don't exceed 40 km/h.

The biggest problem is that the only allowed alternative isn't it either. ETCS is, in my opinion, too complex, too expensive, too differentiated and still not mature enough to fully replace current systems.
__________________
Public transport: Mode of transport that takes to much time to take you from the place you're not currently located, to the place you didn't want to go to, at a time that doesn't really suit you.
M-NL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2017, 11:54 AM   #3391
Baron Hirsch
Kara Tren Solcusu
 
Baron Hirsch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Berlin/Istanbul
Posts: 1,337
Likes (Received): 475

They say that much of the chaos and delays on the new Munich-Berlin line is because ETCS is not working: the systems just do not "read" the train.
Baron Hirsch no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2017, 02:04 PM   #3392
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 767

It may be true, but there are plenty of examples of finely tuned ETCS systems in Europe, so it's just a matter of know how.

Just look at the Italian HS network: there are thousands of ETCS handovers every day, with different trains and operators, and it runs like clockwork.
DB doesn't even need to switch voltage when entering the HSL...
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2017, 02:26 PM   #3393
Richard_P
Registered User
 
Richard_P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Sesame Street
Posts: 4,803
Likes (Received): 2588

Simply DB is paying its toll for delays with ETCS implementation and installation of LZB instead. Now they simply must learn to operate ERTMS as there is no other option. Mentioned earlier problems at NBS Ebensfeld - Erfurt are due to fact that ETCS level 2 was installed as only one without PZB backup and thus in problem scenario multiple cases of emergency braking are noted. And the case is huge because despite initial expectations to create uniform signalling system ERTMS is showing many incompatibilities between hardware, between software and between both of them. Line equipment of one supplier doesn't necessarily cooperate with this from other supplier, despite attempts to achieve back compatibility software on infrastructure and locomotive must be the same and last but not least each railway due to lack of communication and language differences tended to create additional functionalities which doesn't necessarily cooperate with each other. So effectively You need to test compatibility of rolling stock with infrastructure on each ETCS equipped line and most probably DB overlooked this problem with NBS Ebensfeld - Erfurt as on other sections legacy signalling backup is available. The same implied to Betuveroute in Netherlands.
Richard_P no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2017, 09:14 AM   #3394
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_P View Post
ERTMS is showing many incompatibilities between hardware, between software and between both of them. Line equipment of one supplier doesn't necessarily cooperate with this from other supplier
This used to be true in the past, when the Betuweroute and HSL-Zuid were built, but is no longer true today. The specs have been refined and many of the items which could be interpreted in different ways have been clarified.

I am curious about what went wrong with the new HSL. There must've been hundreds of Probefahrten, have the issues that DB encounters in revenue service not occurred during the test programme? If they didn't: what changed? If they did: why has the line opened despite not being ready?
__________________
We are shaping the future
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2017, 02:14 PM   #3395
M-NL
Mixed-mode traveller
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,158
Likes (Received): 274

This article states that the majority of the problems is caused by the train, not the track.

One interesting problem they encountered: Some trains have problems with the odometer. When the odometer (wrongly) indicates a masive overspeed that results in a brake penalty, even though the train wasn't actually too fast. When the odometer concludes that the distance between balises differs to much from the actual distance stored in the balises, that also results in an error again resulting in a brake penalty, because it asumes a malfunctioning odometer.
__________________
Public transport: Mode of transport that takes to much time to take you from the place you're not currently located, to the place you didn't want to go to, at a time that doesn't really suit you.

DanielFA liked this post
M-NL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2017, 03:23 PM   #3396
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 767

The two things combined lead in fact to a faulty odometer.

The distance between balises, and the way this is communicated to the train, is extensively verified and assessed before a line opens. I doubt DB Netz didn't.

I also read of other delayed ICEs but I checked some and they were late way before Bamberg...
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2017, 05:24 PM   #3397
doc7austin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 380
Likes (Received): 812

A first journey with the dedicated Zürich - Berlin ÖBB Nightjet service, which was re-introduced last week:























Full video report:




Enjoy!
__________________

TedStriker, DanielFA, Wilhem275, CB31, Attus liked this post
doc7austin no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 19th, 2017, 04:01 AM   #3398
Nexis
Dark Wolf
 
Nexis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Along the Rails of North Jersey..
Posts: 15,688
Likes (Received): 17044

how long does it take?
__________________
My FLICKR Page < 54,100+ Photos of Urban Renewal , Infrastructure , Food and Nature in the Northeastern US
Visit the Reorganized New York City Section
My Photography Website
Visit the New Jersey Section
Nexis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 19th, 2017, 06:36 AM   #3399
abhik raghav
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 75
Likes (Received): 18

Not able to access the video.
Could you please repost it?
abhik raghav no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 19th, 2017, 03:05 PM   #3400
touya
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 86
Likes (Received): 15

Wondering if there ever will be a Milan - Berlin and/or a Venice - Berlin and/or a Rome - Berlin night train. Maybe over the HSL line once appropriate rolling stock is available.

The current Milan/Venice to Munich trains are nice but too limited in scope and range, while Berlin is one of the most popular destination for young Italian expatriates, which is a market segment that may consider traveling overnight to increase the available time to spend back home at their families'.
touya no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium