daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old February 21st, 2011, 06:50 PM   #781
flierfy
Registered User
 
flierfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,886
Likes (Received): 296

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
The fastest trains (one every hour) take around 6 hours, but a new HSL is under construction.
The fastest services are not only awfully slow. They even run just once in 2 hours. The Berlin-München route emphasize the rotten state German railways are currently in. Shortage of rolling stock and the lack of fast rail lines mean that the bulk of traveller chose air over rail. The construction of two short HSL won't change that. Once in operation the fastest services will still take more than 4 hours. DB is not competitive and never will be.
__________________
Rippachtal.de
flierfy no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old February 21st, 2011, 08:14 PM   #782
LtBk
Registered User
 
LtBk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Greater Baltimore
Posts: 3,103
Likes (Received): 3711

Then why so many people in Germany use rail than?
LtBk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2011, 08:18 PM   #783
K_
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,744
Likes (Received): 243

Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
The fastest services are not only awfully slow. They even run just once in 2 hours. The Berlin-München route emphasize the rotten state German railways are currently in.
Berlin - München suffers from the fact that until 20 years ago they were in different countries. Basically the German reunification suddenly meant that all long term planning had to be thrown out and redone.

Quote:
Shortage of rolling stock and the lack of fast rail lines mean that the bulk of traveller chose air over rail. The construction of two short HSL won't change that. Once in operation the fastest services will still take more than 4 hours. DB is not competitive and never will be.
Never say never. Wait till oil becomes to expensive to burn in vehicles... And anyway, at a bit over 4 hours you can certainly grab a fair share of the Berlin - München market, and a even bigger share of the "Berlin or München to places in between" market where air isn't even bothering to compete with DB as it is.
K_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2011, 08:34 PM   #784
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 768

Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
The fastest services are not only awfully slow. They even run just once in 2 hours.
There is one direct service every 2 hours and one with a transfert also every 2 hours.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2011, 08:59 PM   #785
K_
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,744
Likes (Received): 243

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
There is one direct service every 2 hours and one with a transfert also every 2 hours.
There are in fact even two trains per hour for most of the day, with trip times around 6 hours. So it appears that there are sufficient customers on that route...
K_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2011, 09:07 PM   #786
LtBk
Registered User
 
LtBk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Greater Baltimore
Posts: 3,103
Likes (Received): 3711

Like I said before, you guys have it good compared to most of the world.
LtBk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2011, 11:04 PM   #787
Ingenioren
Registered User
 
Ingenioren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oslo
Posts: 5,605
Likes (Received): 585

Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
There are in fact even two trains per hour for most of the day, with trip times around 6 hours. So it appears that there are sufficient customers on that route...
It runs trough Halle and Nürnberg aswell as several smaller cities. But for München - Berlin it's not good enough with 6 hours traveltime.
__________________
I want to see some construction!
Ingenioren no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2011, 11:06 PM   #788
thun
Registered User
 
thun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,829

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
That is totally unacceptable. A car travelling at decent speeds (150km/h when unlimited, under the limit elsewhere) will do the highways portion of such trip in less than 6 hours.
Problem is that your suggested speed is quite unrealistic on the unlimited route as well due to heavy traffic. I doubt that you can be much faster than six hours on car from city centre to city centre unless you really speed, risk a lot or have very few traffic.
__________________
Folglich mein TagesTipp => Es genau so hinzunehmen wie ich es sagte. Notorisches Widersprechen wird nichts bringen. Ehrlich! Vertraut mir da voellig!
__________ __________ __________
thun no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2011, 11:11 PM   #789
thun
Registered User
 
thun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,829

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
It runs trough Halle and Nürnberg aswell as several smaller cities. But for München - Berlin it's not good enough with 6 hours traveltime.
Yes it could be faster. But, as mentioned, the worst section (Nuremberg-Leipzig) through the mountains (where most travel time can be gained) will finally be upgrated. And lets face it, you need 20 years from initial planning to opening of such a huge infrastructure in this country. So there really isn't a good reason to complain about the fact that there isn't a decent HSL at the moment.
And it probably wouldn't make sense to build a 300somethink kph-line on the whole route in the future as well because there aren't too many really important hubs in between (Nuremberg and to a lesser extend Leipzig, to be precisely).
__________________
Folglich mein TagesTipp => Es genau so hinzunehmen wie ich es sagte. Notorisches Widersprechen wird nichts bringen. Ehrlich! Vertraut mir da voellig!
__________ __________ __________
thun no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2011, 11:16 PM   #790
SO143
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 20,896
Likes (Received): 3625

Ich glaube nicht, dass 150kmh ist schnell, es ist nicht 150 Stundenmeilen richtig?
SO143 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2011, 11:18 PM   #791
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 767

I agree with thun's post.

At the moment many M-B trains travel to Nuernberg on the old line via Augsburg, instead of using the NBS, since usage of HS trains would be useless on the remaining part of the journey to Berlin.

When the NBS to Lepzig will be complete, I'll expect this setup to be changed, using HS trains and NBS lines on the full route (and a serious reduction of travel time).
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2011, 12:08 AM   #792
thun
Registered User
 
thun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,829

Quote:
Originally Posted by SO143 View Post
Ich glaube nicht, dass 150kmh ist schnell, es ist nicht 150 Stundenmeilen richtig?
Actually 150 kph as AVERAGE speed is very very high - even on a German autobahn. It's virtually impossible for most drivers to maintain it over a longer distance.
__________________
Folglich mein TagesTipp => Es genau so hinzunehmen wie ich es sagte. Notorisches Widersprechen wird nichts bringen. Ehrlich! Vertraut mir da voellig!
__________ __________ __________
thun no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2011, 01:06 AM   #793
flierfy
Registered User
 
flierfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,886
Likes (Received): 296

Quote:
Originally Posted by thun View Post
Problem is that your suggested speed is quite unrealistic on the unlimited route as well due to heavy traffic. I doubt that you can be much faster than six hours on car from city centre to city centre unless you really speed, risk a lot or have very few traffic.
There's no need for excessive speeds. The 575 km between both city centres can be travelled in 5 hours by car.
__________________
Rippachtal.de
flierfy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2011, 01:13 AM   #794
flierfy
Registered User
 
flierfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,886
Likes (Received): 296

Quote:
Originally Posted by LtBk View Post
Like I said before, you guys have it good compared to most of the world.
You don't need to be jealous. We carry a bigger tax burden over here. So we can and we have to demand more public services. But what we get in terms of rail services in Germany is pretty rubbish.
__________________
Rippachtal.de
flierfy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2011, 04:52 AM   #795
LtBk
Registered User
 
LtBk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Greater Baltimore
Posts: 3,103
Likes (Received): 3711

I was referring to the rail system. If you think the rail service is bad in Germany, you should come over to the US.

Last edited by LtBk; February 22nd, 2011 at 05:01 AM.
LtBk está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2011, 11:56 AM   #796
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 767

C'mon, German transport system is recognized worldwide as the best, along with the Swiss one (which is way smaller).

Could it be better? Yes, of course, it may be a lot better; but still it is an example and not something to blame.
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2011, 02:07 PM   #797
K_
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,744
Likes (Received): 243

Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
There's no need for excessive speeds. The 575 km between both city centres can be travelled in 5 hours by car.
Quite possibel it can. However, most people prefer not to end up a traffic fatality statistic, so I would at least at 2 30min breaks to that.
That makes, realistically as fast as the car at the moment (you don't have to stop to have dinner on the train, and the food is quite good on the German trains).
Compares favorably with the car, where after all you have to drive it yourself...
K_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2011, 02:10 PM   #798
K_
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,744
Likes (Received): 243

Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
You don't need to be jealous. We carry a bigger tax burden over here. So we can and we have to demand more public services. But what we get in terms of rail services in Germany is pretty rubbish.
I am in a position that I can actually choose between DB and SNCF for some of my medium distance travels. I can tell you that I currently prefer DB. That may change however when SNCF goes to an interval timetable in 2012, although German trains still are far more comfortable than French ones. (and the food is better too...)
K_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2011, 02:46 PM   #799
Kampflamm
Endorsed by the NRA
 
Kampflamm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Broisn
Posts: 23,690

This winter's been a huge disaster. Hourlong delays, bad service...and DB officials knew this was going to happen. To be honest I don't think they're a good alternative to driving anymore. I chose DB over my car twice last year for city trips within Germany and both times something went horribly wrong (stuck in Essen for an hour for example, a 30 minute delay was racked up on the trip between Cologne and Hamburg and one of the carriages with my seat reservation magically went missing).
__________________
Free German passport

"I think it's a privilege to call yourself a Wunderbarler and it's something that you have to earn."
Kampflamm no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2011, 04:14 PM   #800
flierfy
Registered User
 
flierfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,886
Likes (Received): 296

Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
Quite possibel it can. However, most people prefer not to end up a traffic fatality statistic, so I would at least at 2 30min breaks to that.
That makes, realistically as fast as the car at the moment (you don't have to stop to have dinner on the train, and the food is quite good on the German trains).
Compares favorably with the car, where after all you have to drive it yourself...
As if driving were a nuisance.
__________________
Rippachtal.de
flierfy no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium