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Old April 20th, 2011, 10:48 PM   #921
Cirdan
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Germany is not Spain. We like things sorted. Hence, we don't need a individual category for every train on the schedule.
That's not the problem at all. The problem is that the midsized towns would scream murder if the DB came up with a plan to have only every second or third ICE stop there. And that's exactly what an additional express category would mean.
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Old April 21st, 2011, 01:07 AM   #922
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That's not the problem at all. The problem is that the midsized towns would scream murder if the DB came up with a plan to have only every second or third ICE stop there. And that's exactly what an additional express category would mean.
That is why market, not politics, should decide something as technical as train schedules. There is, or there should be, no inherent "right to not be bypassed". I know some European countries delayed introduction of express trains in the 60's because they couldn't get consensus on which stations would be "winners" and which would be "losers".
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Old April 25th, 2011, 01:54 AM   #923
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Freight Train from China Arrives after Traveling 10,300 Kilometers

New test train from Chongqing, with 16 days journey time, is the attractive forerunner for planned regular services from the Chinese hinterland.
(Berlin/Duisburg, April 5, 2011) A container train from Chongqing in China arrived yesterday night in Duisburg after traveling for scarcely 16 days. For the 10,300-kilometer journey along the so-called Southern route, the DB Schenker train, which was commissioned by a global company, completed the journey in about half the time that would have been necessary taking the sea route. The route taken by the train went south of Mongolia, through Kazakhstan, Russia, Belarus and Poland to Germany. Previous test trains on several occasions have followed the entire route north of Mongolia taken by the Trans-Siberian Railway, which is 2,000 kilometers longer, but involves less customs formalities.

Chongqing, the “city of lights“ on the Yangtze Kiang, with a population of just under 30 million, is one of the largest and fastest growing cities in the world. Located in Sichuan Province in the Chinese hinterland, the city has developed into an important production center for various industries. Quite a few global companies of different industries operate in Chongqing. The majority of goods exported to Europe currently take the sea route, some are sent by air freight. Transporting the containers to a Chinese seaport alone takes around three days. By the time they get there, the train to Duisburg will have already covered half of its journey through China along the Eurasian Land Bridge.
Dr. Karl-Friedrich Rausch, Member of the Management Board of DB Mobility Logistics AG responsible for Transportation and Logistics, commenting on the arrival of the train in the Port of Duisburg, said: “Most important of all, the time taken for the journey from China’s interior, the train’s arrival in the middle of Germany and the possibility of delivering the containers from here to their destinations quickly and safely, demonstrate the attractiveness of our service. We hope that, with the journey now completed, we have once again convinced our customers of the advantages of such a train. According to our planning schedule regular services between China and Germany could begin within this year upon sufficient demand”.

=====

Let's just not hope someone starts suggesting a passenger route to China on this route.
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Old April 25th, 2011, 03:36 AM   #924
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A somewhat similar passenger route already exists: the Trans-Siberian Express
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Old April 25th, 2011, 04:32 AM   #925
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But that is in Russia, a country with a miserable record on airport, internal navigation (rivers/canals) and highway development.
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Old April 25th, 2011, 03:14 PM   #926
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Although 16 days is about half the time, that still sounds ridiculously long. The only through-main in Russia is the Trans-Siberian, so I'm guessing the train still had to take a long detour (on the order of a thousand kilometers) north to even make that run. And that's not even factoring in the delays incurred by the two gauge changes.
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Old April 25th, 2011, 03:58 PM   #927
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They wouldn't do it if it didn't make economical sense.

I'm intrigued by this development.
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Old April 26th, 2011, 02:43 PM   #928
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That is why market, not politics, should decide something as technical as train schedules.
The market for long-distance isn't viable. The operational profit of DB Fernverkehr is only 117 million Euro (real profit: ~80 million Euro), and that's with massive political infrastructure subsidies and a cross-financed rolling stock.
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Old April 26th, 2011, 07:08 PM   #929
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If the market is not viable AFTER the government already put money in the infrastructure, the service should not exist, simple as that. It is like roads: government build highways but makes no guarantees that a DHL truck will serve your house, necessarily...
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Old April 27th, 2011, 12:00 AM   #930
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If the market is not viable AFTER the government already put money in the infrastructure, the service should not exist, simple as that. It is like roads: government build highways but makes no guarantees that a DHL truck will serve your house, necessarily...
You always seem to ignore the fact that the state is a non-for-profit organization in the monetary sense, instead its purpose is to maximize the social profits which are never equal to monetary profits. In this case, even when a particular train service might be running at a loss, you've to consider related but not-so-evident effects of that train, such as decreasing the number of trucks on the roads and therefore reducing the capacity needs and the number of accidents, the need to import oil as well as the number of drivers needed in the economy to transport the same amount of goods, to give some examples.
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Old April 27th, 2011, 09:41 AM   #931
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First of all, I don't agree that transporting goods is a "State basic function" like education or health care. In any case, I never said train state operations should turn a profit, but at least break even once you consider the split between infrastructure (which is a state function) and operation.

All those factors you mentioned, if important, would be reflected on prices. Do trucks require more drivers than trains require engineers per ton*km moved? So the labor costs of trucking are higher - for instance.

This argument about "hidden benefits" is only a wild card put on the table by those who ignore that if there are "undefined benefits" like those you mentioned, the costs are very defined and clear, and come from the State purse, aka, our incomes, in the form of taxes.
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Old April 27th, 2011, 10:06 AM   #932
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Although 16 days is about half the time, that still sounds ridiculously long. The only through-main in Russia is the Trans-Siberian, so I'm guessing the train still had to take a long detour (on the order of a thousand kilometers) north to even make that run.
Not true. The train only went as far north as Alashankow-Dostyk border crossing.

There are 2 through routes which now operate direct trains between Moscow and Beijing: Manchurian route via Manchouli and Harbin (only 1 border, Russia-China) and the Transmongolian via Ulan-Bator (2 borders involved). Both of these do have through trains all the way - something like one through train per week.

The third route via Dostyk does not now have through passenger trains and never has. But I see no reason why it could not support another single weekly through train Moscow-Beijing. It does now support passenger trains Urumqi-Almaty and Urumqi-Astana, but no through trains beyond Urumqi and Astana. A through train Moscow-Beijing via Kazakhstan would have just 2 borders to cross, exactly like Transmongolian which does run regularly.
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Old April 27th, 2011, 10:20 AM   #933
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The third route via Dostyk does not now have through passenger trains and never has. But I see no reason why it could not support another single weekly through train Moscow-Beijing. It does now support passenger trains Urumqi-Almaty and Urumqi-Astana, but no through trains beyond Urumqi and Astana. A through train Moscow-Beijing via Kazakhstan would have just 2 borders to cross, exactly like Transmongolian which does run regularly.
Since the Chinese are building a HSL to Urumqi this route could well become the fastest between Moscow and Beijing, so one might see more trains there in the future.
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Old April 28th, 2011, 04:33 PM   #934
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Does anyone know how much train tickets Moscow-Beijing currently cost on the mentioned routes? I wonder what kind of riders this route has too. It is too long for business, which is the majority of trips, so I suppose that Moscow-Beijing is currently a touristic train mostly?
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Old April 28th, 2011, 05:45 PM   #935
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Does anyone know how much train tickets Moscow-Beijing currently cost on the mentioned routes? I wonder what kind of riders this route has too. It is too long for business, which is the majority of trips, so I suppose that Moscow-Beijing is currently a touristic train mostly?
...you are wrong here!!!! That´s here "GERMANY - Railways" and not "Ticketing Beijing-Moscow"!!!
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Old April 28th, 2011, 11:34 PM   #936
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easy, easy! No need to be a douche.

@sekelsenmat; Moscow-Beijing is very variable regarding. I think it starts at something like >350€ and if you want a sleeper it's more like >750€. But I'm not to sure, it's fairly hard to find reliable information imo, because prices tend to differ A LOT from travel agency to travel agency.

Last edited by Zero Gravity; April 28th, 2011 at 11:41 PM.
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Old April 29th, 2011, 07:36 AM   #937
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Does anyone know how much train tickets Moscow-Beijing currently cost on the mentioned routes? I wonder what kind of riders this route has too. It is too long for business, which is the majority of trips, so I suppose that Moscow-Beijing is currently a touristic train mostly?
I don't know about the actual ticket prices, as international tickets can only be bought through an agency and not at an RZD booth. Prices tend to vary, depending on demand. Some agencies sell a Kupe-ticket for train 3/4 (Moscow - Beijing, leaving every second day) for 560 Euro, train 19/20 "Vostok" via Harbin, leaving Moscow each friday, is listed with 680 Euro for a kupe-ticket. Don't know about plazkart prices though.
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Old April 29th, 2011, 08:53 AM   #938
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Now, regarding German railways: there is now regular Moskva Express between Berlin and Moskau, as well as express trains from Berlin to beyond Moskva, like I think direct trains Berlin-Novosibirsk, Berlin-Astana.

Novosibirsk is not much closer to Berlin than Alashankow is. What kind of rolling stock do Germans use for direct trains beyond Moscow, and what are the technical requirements to get through?

What kind of rolling stock is on order for future services beyond the 1520 mm break of gauge, and could Germans start direct trains Berlin-Urumqi or Berlin-Beijing?
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Old April 29th, 2011, 10:02 AM   #939
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These are not direct trains, only direct cars which leave once per week and are always sold out after tickets go on sale. They usually use the standard international RZD sleeping cars.
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Old April 29th, 2011, 12:02 PM   #940
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These are not direct trains, only direct cars which leave once per week and are always sold out after tickets go on sale. They usually use the standard international RZD sleeping cars.
Actually that brings an interresting question: Is it only me or is it quite hard to travel by sleeping cars? I already tryed a couple of times and always had some issue.

From Wroclaw-Lviv the tickets sold out 1 month before my desired departure date =(

For Lviv-Wroclaw there was a train from Kiev, but the Ukranian railways have no internet selling and they don't speak english, only russian or ukrainian, and even PKP Polish Railways could only reverse tickets for that train if I would agree to pay 10 euros just for them to send a FAX asking if there are places, regardless of the answer being positive or negative o.O

I wonder if the demand is much higher then the offer or if the trains run full in weekends, but empty during the week, so they don't want to put more vagons. Any ideas?

What does RZD stand for?
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