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Old May 12th, 2012, 03:42 AM   #1321
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Are there still diesel passenger lines in N.R.W.?
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Old May 12th, 2012, 09:52 AM   #1322
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Yes, there are still diesel lines in Nordrhein-Westfalen.

To name a couple:

Köln - Trier (Eifel-Express)
Hagen - Warburg - Kassel (Sauerland-Express)
Köln - Marienheide (Oberbergische Bahn)
Krefeld–Kleve (Linksniederrheinische Strecke)
Essen – Borken (Der Borkener)
Bielefeld - Altenbecke (Der Leineweber)
Dortmund–Enschede NL (Westmünsterlandbahn)
Münster–Enschede NL (Euregio-Bahn)

Only DMUs and no diesel loco's are used on these lines.

Here's a complete list of regional lines in NRW, you can see from the Rolling stock if it's a diesel line (DMU's have numbers in the 600, for example 612, 624, 643).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ine-Westphalia
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Old May 12th, 2012, 02:21 PM   #1323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
The new diesel locomotives for the DB will be the Bombardier Traxx DE.
http://www.bombardier.com/wps/portal...01260d8016ee96
Interesting locomtive. In stead of one big prime mover these units will have four diesel engines. The advantages are a) redundancy and b)depending on load individual engines can be shut down.
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Old May 13th, 2012, 11:14 AM   #1324
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Anyone got any new about the ICx trains? What is the delivery timeframe?
What signalling systems will be equipped for the international trains?
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Old May 13th, 2012, 01:22 PM   #1325
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Found this timetable on a German forum for replacing currently in use ICE's (c/o [email protected]). "ab" means "starting"
IC ab 2015
ICE 1 ab 2020
ICE 2 ab 2025
ICE T ab 2028
ICE 3 ab 2030
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Old May 13th, 2012, 04:48 PM   #1326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cal_t View Post
Anyone got any new about the ICx trains? What is the delivery timeframe?
What signalling systems will be equipped for the international trains?
National systems required for operation in a specific country.

For the Netherlands, it'll be ATB. For Belgium, Memor and TBL1+. For France, I think KVB and TVM. Of course, the trains will have ERTMS as well.
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Old May 13th, 2012, 10:33 PM   #1327
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Quote:
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National systems required for operation in a specific country.

For the Netherlands, it'll be ATB. For Belgium, Memor and TBL1+. For France, I think KVB and TVM. Of course, the trains will have ERTMS as well.
Are you sure about this, because it sounds like quite a weird decision.
I'd assume they have ERTMS with "compatibility plugins" for the different national systems.
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Old May 13th, 2012, 10:52 PM   #1328
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It will probably be implemented as an STB for the on-board ERTMS system. The STB is the "compatibility plugin" you describe.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 08:43 AM   #1329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
National systems required for operation in a specific country.

For the Netherlands, it'll be ATB. For Belgium, Memor and TBL1+. For France, I think KVB and TVM. Of course, the trains will have ERTMS as well.
Looking at the timetable I suspect we will see them outside of Germany only after 2020. By that time there will be quite a bit of ETCS implemented already. Switzerland intends to have the whole standard gauge network converted to ETCS by 2017. Denmark by 2021. Austria will habe most main lines operating under ETCS by that time too. Italy and Belgium are currently rolling out systems that are hardware compatible with ETCS. I don't know about the Netherlands though, but I would think that the ICx will probably not need many national systems added anymore.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 09:42 AM   #1330
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Nationwide roll-out of ERTMS in Belgium is not before 2030. Similarely, the Netherlands don't even have a final ERTMS rollout planned, the same goes for France.

The most important corridors will be equipped with ERTMS (such as LGV 3 and LGV 4 in Belgium, the Betuweroute freight route and HSL South in the Netherlands), the lines connecting to/from major stations in NL and BE haven't been ERTMS'd yet.

The plan is to use 12 ICx trains as a replacement for the current ageing rolling stock on the Amsterdam - Amersfoort - Deventer - Bad Bentheim - Hannover - Berlin Hbf route. I can't remember the timeframe for those.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 09:46 AM   #1331
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Berlin - Amsterdam will one of the 1st routes where the ICx will replace the existing IC rolling stock. From the 1st tranche of the framework order 12 7-car sets will be configured for the use in the Netherlands, these will have ATB.

These are the only sets that will be used outside of Germany/Austria/Switzerland out of the 130 sets of the 1st tranche of the order. And that makes sense since the current IC and the ICE 1 network doesn't go beyond the borders of these 3 countries. The 2nd tranche of the order will be more international, but just like the Dutch sets it will most likely be a number dedicated sets for a particular international route.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 10:29 AM   #1332
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Just thinking: this means that all other current EuroCity lines, such as to Budapest, Verona, Luxemburg, Warszaw, Zagreb (no idea where else they go) will continue to run with present rolling stock?
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Old May 14th, 2012, 12:30 PM   #1333
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Apparently, yes. I guess not all of those are operated by DB anyway.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 11:18 PM   #1334
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On the previous page KingNick posted an article about the refurbishment of the IC coaches that should make them last until 2023. That gives us an indication on how long the current IC rolling stock will be in service including on the EC lines.
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Old May 15th, 2012, 07:15 AM   #1335
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Quote:
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The most important corridors will be equipped with ERTMS (such as LGV 3 and LGV 4 in Belgium, the Betuweroute freight route and HSL South in the Netherlands), the lines connecting to/from major stations in NL and BE haven't been ERTMS'd yet.
Actually Infrabel is installing TBL+ on the whole network. TBL+ is hardware compatible with ETCS. The same thing is taking place in Switzerland and if I'm not mistaken Italy. Once such a system is implemented an ETCS equipped vehicle only needs the right software (AFAIK) to be able to run.

Since migrating from TBL+, EuroZub/Signum and SCMT to ETCS only involves adding GSM-R (which is also rolled out) and a couple of RBC's and a software upgrade I expect an large increase in ETCS mileage from 2020 onwards.

Quote:
The plan is to use 12 ICx trains as a replacement for the current ageing rolling stock on the Amsterdam - Amersfoort - Deventer - Bad Bentheim - Hannover - Berlin Hbf route. I can't remember the timeframe for those.
Isn't ETCS L2 already installed between Amsterdam and Utrecht? AFAIK Prorail has the intention of installing ETCS L2 on several main lines to increase capacity and speeds. However I do find it a bid odd that not all international corridors will receive it...
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Old May 15th, 2012, 09:59 AM   #1336
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The stretch of track between Amsterdam Bijlmer Arena and Utrecht has been fitted with dual signalling, supplied by Bombardier. This is intended as a trial, later 10 VIRM EMUs and 10 SLT EMUs will be retrofitted with ETCS (yes, the brand new SLT trains have been delivered without ETCS built in!)

The usual ATB-EG combined with ERTMS Level 2. Unfortunately, Bombardier had lots of issues getting this working (resulting in a delay of over 6 months and a penalty) and there are no trains that currently use it (maybe except for some freight trains). The Amsterdam - Utrecht track area is irrelevant for ICx though, as the train to Berlin takes a different route (not going over Utrecht).
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Old May 15th, 2012, 01:55 PM   #1337
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Quote:
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Since migrating from TBL+, EuroZub/Signum and SCMT to ETCS only involves adding GSM-R (which is also rolled out) and a couple of RBC's and a software upgrade I expect an large increase in ETCS mileage from 2020 onwards.
Yep. In fact SCMT is hardware compatible, and GSM-R is being developed all along the Italian network, at the moment for phone and emergency communications only.

In fact RFI is thinking about scrapping semaphoric signals all along new and rebuilt stretches, reaching at least L1 on the non-HS network.

L2 on HSLs is working pretty good and we're gathering some serious experience on this topic.
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Old May 15th, 2012, 05:46 PM   #1338
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Quote:
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Nationwide roll-out of ETCS in Belgium is not before 2030.
The whole network should be ready by 2022 and the rolling stock by 2023.
For the network, there are good chances that it really happens : TBL1+,
currently in deployment and supposed to complete by 2014, is fully
compatible (hardware-wise) with ETCS so the transition will not be that
difficult.

For the rolling stock, this will be harder because there are entire series of
stock that are said to be incompatible with an ETCS deployment, so they
will have to be replaced by that time (locs type 11/12/21/27 and M4
coaches). We'll see whether the budget for that has been made available
in between.

Source: http://www.railjournal.com/newsflash...etcs-1515.html

Note: this article speaks about the conventional network only, there are
two lines of the high-speed network that are equipped with ETCS level 2
already.
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Old May 15th, 2012, 06:25 PM   #1339
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Quote:
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For the rolling stock, this will be harder because there are entire series of
stock that are said to be incompatible with an ETCS deployment, so they
will have to be replaced by that time (locs type 11/12/21/27 and M4
coaches). We'll see whether the budget for that has been made available
in between.
Retrofitting ETCS to existing stock is pretty expensive, as you have to replace the instrumentation in the drivers' cabin. However, there is no reason why, once the TBL+ balises start broadcasting ETCS telegrams that they should stop broadcasting TBL+ info. So using both systems in paralel seems to be likely.
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Old May 16th, 2012, 05:14 PM   #1340
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Siemens and the DB has made a compromise on the delivery of the new Siemens Velaro D ICE 3 stets, after a meeting organized by the German transport minister. The 1st 8 sets of the 16 sets that are on order will be delivered from now until November so that they can be introduced into service with the next timetable that will start in December.

source in German:
http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/articl...acht-ICEs.html

Although the sets have been ordered for international services to the Benelux, France and London they will now be used only for domestic services because they are still not approved for the use in all the other countries. Earlier the DB only wanted to accept them when they were fully approved to the specifications in the order. But now they will use them domestically to ease the effect of the ongoing problems that are caused by shortage of the current domestic ICE fleet until they get their full approval for the international use.


The Velaro D ICE 3, Baureihe 407

image hosted on flickr

Velaro-D van de DB , 4702 by twenterail, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Velaro D , tz 4702 by GeraldB's railfotos, on Flickr
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