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Old May 16th, 2012, 05:30 PM   #1341
Sopomon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
Siemens and the DB has made a compromise on the delivery of the new Siemens Velaro D ICE 3 stets, after a meeting organized by the German transport minister. The 1st 8 sets of the 16 sets that are on order will be delivered from now until November so that they can be introduced into service with the next timetable that will start in December.

source in German:
http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/articl...acht-ICEs.html

Although the sets have been ordered for international services to the Benelux, France and London they will now be used only for domestic services because they are still not approved for the use in all the other countries. Earlier the DB only wanted to accept them when they were fully approved to the specifications in the order. But now they will use them domestically to ease the effect of the ongoing problems that are caused by shortage of the current domestic ICE fleet until they get their full approval for the international use.


The Velaro D ICE 3, Baureihe 407


image hosted on flickr

Velaro D , tz 4702 by GeraldB's railfotos, on Flickr

Urgghhhh, I wish they integrated the "hump" on the roof into the design better, it just looks silly in its current state.
Or maybe it's just me, but I think I prefer the old Velaro design. However the e320 units could be quite good looking.

EDIT: Aw, shucks, I meant to use the other photo, otherwise it looks like I'm complaining about a communications antenna lol.
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Old May 16th, 2012, 06:13 PM   #1342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
Siemens Velaro D ICE 3
According to Siemens its called "Velaro D" (series 407) and has nothing to do with "ICE 3" (Series 403 and 406). In fact, the ICE 3 was buildt in a cooperation by Siemens and Bombardier, whilst the Velaro family was developed from the ICE 3 by Siemens alone.
On the other hand, DB apparently called the sets "new ICE 3", so its quite confusing.
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Old May 16th, 2012, 10:50 PM   #1343
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Quote:
Or maybe it's just me, but I think I prefer the old Velaro design. However the e320 units could be quite good looking.
The Velaro D and the EuroStar e320 are, to me, the best example of how much of a difference a paint job can make.

I don't know any other train where there's such a pronounced difference. The Hikari RailStar gets an honorable mention though.
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Old May 16th, 2012, 11:38 PM   #1344
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Originally Posted by K_ View Post
Retrofitting ETCS to existing stock is pretty expensive, as you have to replace the instrumentation in the drivers' cabin. However, there is no reason why, once the TBL+ balises start broadcasting ETCS telegrams that they should stop broadcasting TBL+ info. So using both systems in paralel seems to be likely.
Well, I did not made up this story. It is something that SNCB has officially
communicated. The stock that cannot be upgraded to ETCS will disappear
by 2023. That's what they say, future will tell...
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Old May 18th, 2012, 05:12 PM   #1345
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Old May 19th, 2012, 02:39 PM   #1346
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Velaro D in its DB livery is not very elegant at all...
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Old May 19th, 2012, 03:55 PM   #1347
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The whole IC(E) livery is sh** imo.
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Old May 19th, 2012, 04:45 PM   #1348
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Livery is extremely secondary for State (de facto) rail monopolists who don't have to fight for passenger market share as they are sole operators.
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Old May 19th, 2012, 06:22 PM   #1349
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That's not true. Even monopolists pay attention to livery and style. The ÖBB Railjet for example has even won a design award!

Taste is personal, either you like it or you don't. The DB Fernverkehr AG color scheme is white with a red line, and I think it's beautiful. On a shiny train, that is. I like it on the Velaro D, I just think the en profil shot is sh*t

What I dislike is that - according to my information - the Velaro D no longer has the "Smart Glass" windows as seen in ICE 3, where passengers could have a look over the driver's shouder. If the driver wants that, of course.
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Old May 19th, 2012, 06:25 PM   #1350
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Who in their right minds is choosing transportation options based on livery???

For majority it's some combination of speed, convenience and price... For me long distance train is the preferred choice if it takes no more than 4-4.5 h, is faster than with a car, doesn't cost significantly more than a plane and my final destination is a big city with good public transportation. Basel-Paris would be a good example.
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Old May 19th, 2012, 06:33 PM   #1351
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Livery is important in an open access market, as it helps to distinguish your brand among others. Thalys has done a great job at this: almost everyone recognizes the deep, warm red color of a Thalys train and the Thalys brand. This helps Thalys to stand out among ICE and (later) Fyra, even if they were to use the same rolling stock.

The same goes for Eurostar, since they'll be using the same trains as Deutsche Bahn. I think a Velaro e320 looks absolutely beautiful:
image hosted on flickr

Kensington Gardens by portemolitor, on Flickr
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Old May 19th, 2012, 06:55 PM   #1352
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It looks ok, not as good as an AGV or a V-250 though (in my opinion).

As for translucent glasses peeking into the cabin, I'm glad they are getting rid of that security failure. I think they should tint or paint the existing glasses as well, passengers have no business peeking into the engineer doing his/her job, and the engineer has no job putting a "performance" for an audience as well.
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Old May 19th, 2012, 07:09 PM   #1353
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I prefer the look of a Pendolino or AGV as well, but it certainly doesn't look bad.

I do disagree about the translucent glass - right now it's already up to the driver to decide whether or not he wants to give a show. If he does, he simply presses a button and the people can look over his shoulder. By default, the screen is dimmed - it's also dimmed when the train lowers pantographs etc.

From what I've read, the Velaro D will not have the vestibules immediately behind the driver's cab, as some safety equipment will be there. That's the reason why the translucent glass had to go. Furthermore, compartiments are gone too, it's all "Grossraumwagen" in Velaro D.
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Old May 19th, 2012, 09:14 PM   #1354
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a diesel locomotive in Kiel harbor
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Old May 20th, 2012, 12:21 AM   #1355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
It looks ok, not as good as [...] a V-250 though
Now i KNOW you're just trolling.

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Old May 20th, 2012, 04:45 AM   #1356
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Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
Now i KNOW you're just trolling.

DURRR DURRRRRR DURRRRR DURRRRRRR

Christ that thing just looks ridiculous. And still, none of them are in commercial service right? (Sorry for O/T)

On topic; I don't think that the DB livery is bad, it's very iconic, and has clean lines, it looks very "professional" for lack of a better word. It's just that I think Siemens dun goofed with the aesthetic design of the Velaro D and ended up making it look more like a humpback whale than a train. And unfortunately, the DB livery in this case doesn't compliment it at all.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 02:39 PM   #1357
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The Fiat Multipla of train design.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 04:18 PM   #1358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon

DURRR DURRRRRR DURRRRR DURRRRRRR

Christ that thing just looks ridiculous. And still, none of them are in commercial service right? (Sorry for O/T)
Correct, but that will change within a few months.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 05:59 PM   #1359
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Well, I think at the end of the day it is a matter of purely aesthetic preferences. I like trains with flat "noseheads" like the V250 or my favorite, the Talgo 250



Of course there is no such train running in Germany, because DB don't order trains from Spain for political reasons (which is another reason why DB should be broken and privatized). It uses its special relationship with Siemens to "keep the money in Germany" and that should be repudiated in the EU common market.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 08:18 PM   #1360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist
Of course there is no such train running in Germany, because DB don't order trains from Spain for political reasons (which is another reason why DB should be broken and privatized). It uses its special relationship with Siemens to "keep the money in Germany" and that should be repudiated in the EU common market.
That is not true: a couple of months ago DB closed a deal with Alstom (French), Stadler (Swiss) and CAF (Spanish) for a framework agreement for the supply of new trains for the Regionalverkehr. The first batch of trains stemming from this deal is a bunch of new Alstom Coradia LINT trains for the Regionalverkehr around Cologne.

The reason for this can be found in disappointment over the German industry: not only did Siemens let down DB with the much delayed Velaro D (which has literally set the ICE to London project back by a few years!), Bombardier let down DB as well with the troubled TALENT 2 trains. Then there's tough negotiations about the ICx and the fact that the state-of-the-art ICE 3 trains (built by Siemens and Bombardier's predecessor, ADtranz) has got quite a share of problems.
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Last edited by AlexNL; May 20th, 2012 at 08:32 PM.
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