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Old June 4th, 2012, 10:41 PM   #1401
gramercy
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i get that, but the point is, tunnels, bridges, viaducts and whatnot should be fully utilized on a 100+ year timescale and i seriously doubt they will build another one so i always advocate for at least the alignment - if not the actual speed - to be able to handle 300+++ speeds

not that we wouldnt run around naked while totally stoned if we had a SINGLE line here capable of 160 without having to stop at a series of "potholes"..
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Old June 4th, 2012, 10:59 PM   #1402
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It is not China, with millions of people traveling 1000+ km distances by train. ICE stops in München Hbf., M Pasing, Augsburg, Ulm, Stuttgart.
I think in such a service the top speed is not such important, it may be 250 or 320, does not really matter.
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Old June 4th, 2012, 11:13 PM   #1403
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Of course it does matter! If you start summing each 3 minutes here, 90 second there, and do this dozens of times for a long-distance route, you could easily shave like 2 hours from total scheduled time by improving tracks and eliminating stops.
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Old June 4th, 2012, 11:16 PM   #1404
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If you remove all the stops, make a huge circle, put it underground, pump out the air and make the entire train into an engine, you can probably do a mach or two. Would shave a lot of time from the round-trip between the southernmost part of the loop and northernmost part of the loop.
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Old June 4th, 2012, 11:54 PM   #1405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
i get that, but the point is, tunnels, bridges, viaducts and whatnot should be fully utilized on a 100+ year timescale and i seriously doubt they will build another one so i always advocate for at least the alignment - if not the actual speed - to be able to handle 300+++ speeds

not that we wouldnt run around naked while totally stoned if we had a SINGLE line here capable of 160 without having to stop at a series of "potholes"..
Who said the track layout could not cope with 300+? Trains just won't run that fast since the tracks are partly too steep to run faster (24,5 ‰).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Ulm_Profil.png

Last edited by KingNick; June 5th, 2012 at 04:52 AM.
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Old June 5th, 2012, 01:40 AM   #1406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
Tunnel ratio 0.5, that almost meets Austrian standards of how a new railway line has to look like.
I see a lot of Verkehrswegebündelung there. Good thing!


BTW: Upgrade München - Salzburg to HSR already!

Yeah, Verkehrswegebündelung leads to less Landschaftsverbrauch if you know what I mean.

München-Salzburg HSR is no problem! Just pay for it.



Quote:
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not that we wouldnt run around naked while totally stoned if we had a SINGLE line here capable of 160 without having to stop at a series of "potholes"..

I´m curious, where is "here"? Just asking.



Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
Who said the track layout could not cope with 300+? Trains just won't run that fast since the tracks is partly too steep to run faster (24,5 ‰).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Ulm_Profil.png

Exactly, the Schwäbische Alb is a b!tch when it comes to infrastructural projects!
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Old June 5th, 2012, 04:58 AM   #1407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadeye Reloaded View Post

Yeah, Verkehrswegebündelung leads to less Landschaftsverbrauch if you know what I mean.

München-Salzburg HSR is no problem! Just pay for it.
We're about to build you guys and Italy a freaking long tunnel through the Alps. Now it's your turn to return the favor and besides, it would be nice to have the 1-2-3 concept realized between Vienna and Munich (1 hour to Salzburg, 2 hours to Linz, 3 hours to Vienna).
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Old June 5th, 2012, 05:10 AM   #1408
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Quote:
I´m curious, where is "here"? Just asking.
He is referring to Hungary.
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Old June 5th, 2012, 08:55 AM   #1409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
Who said the track layout could not cope with 300+? Trains just won't run that fast since the tracks are partly too steep to run faster (24,5 ‰).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Ulm_Profil.png
Well, that it means that it would be an ulra high speed railway, when travelinh from Ulm to Stut.
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Old June 5th, 2012, 10:28 AM   #1410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Of course it does matter! If you start summing each 3 minutes here, 90 second there, and do this dozens of times for a long-distance route, you could easily shave like 2 hours from total scheduled time by improving tracks and eliminating stops.
Removing stops increases the utility for some passengers, and reduces it for others. Finding the right balance is needed here.

The most cost effective way to shave a lot of time from the total remains clever timetabling. It has been demonstrated that a new interval timetable for the whole of Germany could save a lot of travel time for a lot of passengers without needing expensive infrastructure work.
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Old June 5th, 2012, 10:31 AM   #1411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
Who said the track layout could not cope with 300+? Trains just won't run that fast since the tracks are partly too steep to run faster (24,5 ‰).
The new Bern - Olten railway in Switzerland could cope with 300+ kph trains too. The reason trains run "only" 200kph there is that is sufficient for this route.
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Old June 5th, 2012, 11:32 AM   #1412
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sweet
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Old June 5th, 2012, 04:52 PM   #1413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
We're about to build you guys and Italy a freaking long tunnel through the Alps. Now it's your turn to return the favor and besides, it would be nice to have the 1-2-3 concept realized between Vienna and Munich (1 hour to Salzburg, 2 hours to Linz, 3 hours to Vienna).
oh yeah! with money from the european union... and who pays it????? oh, i forgot: GERMANY for a big part!
So they allready pay it!!!!
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Old June 5th, 2012, 07:02 PM   #1414
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4 hours to budapest? nah, never..
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Old June 5th, 2012, 08:08 PM   #1415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AAPMBerlin View Post
oh yeah! with money from the european union... and who pays it????? oh, i forgot: GERMANY for a big part!
So they allready pay it!!!!
Dafuq are you talking about?

And coming from Berlin I'd rather shut up, since you're not financing anything within Germany.
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Old June 5th, 2012, 08:40 PM   #1416
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Quote:
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if 30 km is in tunnels, can anyone tell me a GOOD reason why it isn't 300+ kph?
Besides length and steepness, the third reason is that the line is mixed use passenger/freight.
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Old June 6th, 2012, 03:12 PM   #1417
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Quote:
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It has been demonstrated that a new interval timetable for the whole of Germany could save a lot of travel time for a lot of passengers without needing expensive infrastructure work.
We do have an interval timetable in Germany for years. Yet, it doesn't necessarily save time.
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Old June 7th, 2012, 04:55 PM   #1418
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Quote:
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We do have an interval timetable in Germany for years. Yet, it doesn't necessarily save time.
It's no longer that well integrated, not like it used to be.

In the 80ies you could leave Hamburg for Basel every hour, and always have the same time en route. Nowadays this is no longer the case. The lack of integration leads to quite long layovers at times, which is inefficient.

For that reason rail advocacy groups in Germany want an integral, coordinated interval timetable for the whole country:
http://www.deutschland-takt.de/
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Old June 7th, 2012, 09:52 PM   #1419
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Long distance railway transit is no more a public service in Germany, Deutsche Bahn does not get any public financial support to that (not counting building the tracks). So if DB thinks a candenced schedule does not create the highest possible profit, they won't make a candenced shcedule - and you can' do anything on that, since the service is not financed on tay money but on ticket sells.
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Old June 8th, 2012, 02:11 AM   #1420
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But, if you have the time, money and expertise and think there's a market for a certain train, you can set up your own train operating company and run it. That's what HKX does, too.
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