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Old January 16th, 2013, 03:06 PM   #1681
maniei
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(Kind of) news regarding Frankfurt-Mannheim HSR:

I have come across a quite enlighting new article of the newspaper echo.

It’s about the freight-rail-only-proposal. It turns out it wasnt conducted by politicians of southern Hesse, but by people from the railway union.
Now they have gone public not only to recieve the credit for themselves, but also because they are about to start an offensive to promote and advertise their plans, to convince the decisive people in the ministries and DB.

In this article they also promote their plans and explain them very detailed.

Its said that already today there are 350 freight trains a day using the Main-Neckar-Bahn only. And with the Gotthard tunnel a 30% rise is expected.

350 trains make 15 trains per hour.
That means a frequency of a train every 8 min in one direction.

A 30% rise would make 455 trains a Day.
That makes 19 trains per hour, and a frequency of 6 min in one direction.

This shows that it is impossible to use two tracks for freight and passenger rail simultaneously.

In the article its also said that it would take at least 5 years of planning to have it ready to be built.



http://www.echo-online.de/region/dar...rt1231,3572142

Last edited by maniei; January 16th, 2013 at 03:12 PM.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 11:18 PM   #1682
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Old January 20th, 2013, 11:32 PM   #1683
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I just arrived in Frankfurt 2 hours late, from my Main-Neckar-Bahn ride.
why?
Not because my train had that great problems with the weather conditions, no, because it was stuck behind a bunch of ******* freight trains that had trouble, but could not be overtaken.
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Old January 21st, 2013, 12:59 PM   #1684
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Has anyone proposed something like this: connecting Riedbahn and Main-Neckar-Bahn somewhere in between Darmstadt and Mannheim? This would allow
-freight trains to skip both Darmstadt and Mannheim
-local trains to serve both Darmstadt and Mannheim via a shorter route
-better utilization of the existing high-speed line between Mannheim and Stuttgart than the DGB proposal
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Old January 21st, 2013, 11:29 PM   #1685
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Quote:
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-local trains to serve both Darmstadt and Mannheim via a shorter route
That route would however skip the ca 300,000 people living inbetween Mannheim and Darmstadt along the southern Main-Neckar-Bahn...

Besides that crossroute already exists. It just doesn't have a curve towards the Riedbahn, instead it crosses it (with a common station, Bürstadt), then crosses the Rhine and goes south towards Mannheim via Worms.

Problem is still that your proposed route would continue to go through about two dozen towns. The very idea of traffic bundling is not only to get straighter HSR parallel to Autobahns but also to pull it out of the smaller towns and cities.

Mannheim's mayor Kurz has in the past alluded to the possibility of a left-of-the-Rhine freight bypass route. In my opinion a rather attractive idea.
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 12:45 PM   #1686
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Why not build a four-track line along the Autobahn? Two tracks for freight, two for ICEs. ICs and regional trains can stay on the existing lines. Surely by far the most expensive alternative but also the most efficient in terms of capacity, future growth, noise pollution and schedule design.
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 07:04 PM   #1687
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Does Europe want Germany to run all its railways?

See this link for an interesting insight into the political power that Deutsche Bahn has within the EU.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 01:00 AM   #1688
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Normal policy making processes in the EU at work there. why to speak about DB dictatorship. The question whether a liberalisation model like defunction of British Rail would be a wise idea for other EU countries isn't really agreed either.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 01:05 AM   #1689
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People blame the UK model for things they are not to blame. Like fare increases (result of a political decision to reduce subsidization) and inefficient franchise schemes.

The essential core is to separate infrastructure from operations, even if the infrastructure management is left to a state entity.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 02:22 AM   #1690
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One of the things Mr Berkeley really objects to is the way in which loss-making companies within the DB Group can receive funds from the parts of the group which are profitable - or the parts that receive state subsidies or, in the case of DB Netz, money in the form of infrastructure usage payments by companies which are in competition with the DB passenger and freight companies.

For example, freight operators in competition to DB Schenker, such as Crossrail, will pay DB Netz, quite rightly. But then DB Netz is perfectly able to transfer funds to the parent group which then can transfer funds to DB Schenker, which then offset the losses of DB Schenker. I believe that since 2009 the rail part of DB Schenker has been a loss-making business.

In this scenario, therefore, the competition to DB Schenker is in fact helping to pay for the operation of DB Schenker.

That's insane.

DB Schenker, meanwhile, not only remains very strong in the place where it once had a monopoly, Germany, but also has the financial clout to buy other European rail companies. This means DB Schenker can grow even larger and more powerful, but it does not have to worry too much about being profitable, unlike the private-sector companies that compete with it, and which are much smaller and therefore more vulnerable.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not some kind of Anglo-Saxon capitalistic fanatic, and the rail operations of DB Schenker do a great deal to give rail freight in Europe a positive image. The same goes for DB's passenger operations.

However, the current situation is not really sustainable in the long term, and I do think that the management of railway infrastructures across Europe will have to be more along the lines of the UK and Swedish models if the railway system is going to develop for the interests of passengers and cargo shippers.

I am not advocating a full-UK prescription for Europe as a whole though. Although the UK rail system seems to be developing well now, following several decades of neglect and mismanagement, I believe the UK system needs modifying in some way to make it less cost-heavy.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 11:54 AM   #1691
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To me France seems to be the biggest obstacle in railway market liberalisation in Europe, not Germany.
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Old January 24th, 2013, 11:09 AM   #1692
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Speaking about useless new lines...

I just discovered the existence of this while I was hovering around Wiesbaden maps...
When I saw it I said "**** me sideways!"

One and a half pairs daily What did they have in mind when building such a useless thing?
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Old January 24th, 2013, 12:02 PM   #1693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
Speaking about useless new lines...

I just discovered the existence of this while I was hovering around Wiesbaden maps...
When I saw it I said "**** me sideways!"

One and a half pairs daily What did they have in mind when building such a useless thing?
Well, more than 2 1/2 trains daily, for sure...
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Old January 24th, 2013, 01:49 PM   #1694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
Speaking about useless new lines...

I just discovered the existence of this while I was hovering around Wiesbaden maps...
When I saw it I said "**** me sideways!"

One and a half pairs daily What did they have in mind when building such a useless thing?
That is what you end up with when people are in charge who do know very little about railways, who have too much money on hand and who grossly overrate the importance of their provincial capital.
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Old January 24th, 2013, 02:50 PM   #1695
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What really tickles me is why they went so large with this project: double track, 160 /h, complete flying junction (in tunnel!) with full speed points...

All this while the -way more used AND useful- Verbindungskurve Flughafen <-> Bischofsheim is not only an at-grade junction on both lines, but they didn't even complete its doubling... it's only designed for it.
And in that point the difference in height was just perfect for a nice flying one. Well, whatever.


If really a Wiesbaden link was needed, I'd have it made with just a single track curve, at-grade, from the HSL to the Taunusbahn here... this could have served direct services to Mainz Hbf too; and probably this is exactly the political reason why they avoided it
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Old January 24th, 2013, 04:12 PM   #1696
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One of the odd political results German federalism produces from time to time, I suppose.
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Old January 24th, 2013, 10:45 PM   #1697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thun View Post
Why not build a four-track line along the Autobahn? Two tracks for freight, two for ICEs. ICs and regional trains can stay on the existing lines. Surely by far the most expensive alternative but also the most efficient in terms of capacity, future growth, noise pollution and schedule design.
That's what I was thinking as well.

Once they have built the new two-track, all 3 corridors will be at the edge of their capacity already.
Even if they would really use the new one for freight only, you would have a train every 5 mins in one direction, with the tendency to grow. So practically it would be a convoy of one freight train right behind another, and that 24/7.

But I highly doubt it would happen. They dont think that sustainable here in Germany. Nowadays everything they do is just tinkering (Flickschusterei).

If they would do that, it would change the whole game. Bypasses for Mannheim and Darmstadt would become appropriate all of the sudden.

However it could be that this wont be possible to be built, because the corridor they have left free along the A5 is not broad enough for 4 tracks.
I'm not sure:

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Old January 25th, 2013, 10:07 AM   #1698
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Old January 27th, 2013, 10:08 AM   #1699
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If we want to expand freight capacity primarily we don't necessarily need to bundle that with the A5/A67.

For freight, Mannheim RBf serves as the main hub for both Rhine-Neckar, Rhine-Main and Stuttgart. There is no separate large-scale freight station in the Rhine-Main area, only a feeder station for Mannheim RBf (in Bischofsheim). Most freight trains on the Rhine-Main/Rhine-Neckar route do not originate or target the Rhine-Main area.

A freight route expansion can just as easily be located on the left bank of the Rhine. Such a route would probably need a bypass around Mainz, possibly parallel to the A60 - with a decent connection leading towards the Gustavsburg railway bridge (which is the real problem) - and probably a new railway bridge along the A6 north of Mannheim/Ludwigshafen.
Rebuilding/expanding the left-shore route between Ludwigshafen and Mainz would add the benefit of making it possible to properly separate the S-Bahn lines on that route - in particular between Ludwigshafen and Worms - from interregional (IC) trains, which use it quite regularly during the day.
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Old January 27th, 2013, 11:11 AM   #1700
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I don't understand why freight should go left, while the main axis is all on the right bank (Troisdorf - Basel Bad)
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I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
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