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Old May 22nd, 2013, 04:41 PM   #1761
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Originally Posted by TedStriker View Post
...although it's also quite true that many passenger trains in the UK are obviously run by companies where bean counters are in control, so they can have awful seat configurations and are very often too short in length and therefore overcrowded.
That's not so much because of the bean counters, but because of the age of the network. The British loading gauge doesn't allow double deck trains, and the maximum length of passenger trains is also more restricted then on the continent. Which means that trains do indeed tend to be more cramped than German ones. DB can run 16 car ICE consists on all it's main lines. In the UK trains on the West Coast Mainline are limited to 11 cars... Many other lines have even shorter maximum consist.
That said, DB is planning to pack seats closer too in the new ICx sets...
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 07:25 PM   #1762
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People often criticize UK rail system without much reason. UK operates a denser network that is more fragile by means of design of the early 1800s (London-centric, lack of electrification etc)

However, these things are not a by-product of the institutional structure of the rail system in UK as of now, but a legacy of decades past. Britain had coal, and plenty of it, and no neighbor casting its eyes over it, so it never faced the urgency to electrify that Switzerland or Germany did.

Its rail infrastructure were also not severely damaged during WW2, to the point where they had to reconstruct (and indirectly upgrade) many bridges, stations and what else in Germany.

What people often complain about are prices, but that is more anecdotal these days: last-minute ICE fares are very expensive, as are walk-up fares in UK.

Last-minute travel in Germany that involves 2 ICEs, one regional train and one private-operated trains is costly.

As for the overall pricing scheme, regional travel is cheaper in Germany than in UK, but that is a result of public policy on subsidization of local commuter train networks in many of the länder.
It's not the density of the network, that's fine. It's the poor service and astronomical prices for a single journey.
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Old May 23rd, 2013, 01:37 AM   #1763
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Britain has best railway, says new CILT president


The European Commission reckons Britain has the best railway in Europe and is urging other member states to follow and adapt to the UK rail system, according to Jim Steer, the new president of the Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport.

The statement came during Steer’s speech at the president’s inauguration lunch in London, where he set out his agenda for the next twelve months.

As well as citing his presidential priorities for the next year, he announced the EU is encouraging other members to adapt the British example in managing railways as it believes it is the best in the continent.


From Logistics Manager, 21st May 2013
This sounds exactly like the kind of thing that someone who doesn´t ever use the railway would say.

Not that British railways are bad at all, don´t get me wrong. But...
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Old May 23rd, 2013, 07:34 AM   #1764
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It's not the density of the network, that's fine. It's the poor service and astronomical prices for a single journey.
UK fares are not expensive if you buy them in advance. Exactly like German ICE and long-distance IC-fares.
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Old May 23rd, 2013, 12:00 PM   #1765
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They are hell expensive, even on commuter trains. Why would I want to buy a single from Stevenage to King's Cross in advance?
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Old May 23rd, 2013, 12:06 PM   #1766
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It's not the density of the network, that's fine. It's the poor service and astronomical prices for a single journey.
I've never paid "astronomical prices" for a single journey in the UK... And the service was usually OK. The only time I suffered a large delay was when the police stopped the train to take a statement from the driver. In my experience they usually keep the passengers well informed, something you can't say from for example the French of Belgian railways...
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Old May 23rd, 2013, 12:18 PM   #1767
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They are hell expensive, even on commuter trains. Why would I want to buy a single from Stevenage to King's Cross in advance?
An anytime single from Stevenage to King's Cross is 13,20 UKP. For a 50km trip that is not expensive. Driving this by car will be both more expensive and slower...
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Old May 23rd, 2013, 12:54 PM   #1768
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This isn't the right place to discuss rail fares in Britain.
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Old May 23rd, 2013, 01:02 PM   #1769
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I can usually travel from Edinburgh-London for about £40.
I've managed to snag first-class seats at £30 on occasion too.
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Old May 23rd, 2013, 01:25 PM   #1770
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Leeds - Stevenage once for £92. A big difference to Innsbruck - Turin for €65. Both times I bought a ticket before boarding. Mayrhofen - Munich Airport (200 km) 37€.
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Old May 23rd, 2013, 01:36 PM   #1771
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Old May 23rd, 2013, 01:36 PM   #1772
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Fares can be expensive but they can be very cheap, it just depends when you buy them and for which routes.

I just looked at Leeds-Stevenage, single tickets for immediate travel are £85, tickets to travel on Monday are £42.50, tickets for travel on June 27 are available at £13

Journey takes 1h47 for 265km, so average speed 148km/h, which isn't up to HSR standards but good for conventional rail.
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Old May 23rd, 2013, 02:29 PM   #1773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Leeds - Stevenage once for £92. A big difference to Innsbruck - Turin for €65. Both times I bought a ticket before boarding. Mayrhofen - Munich Airport (200 km) 37€.
Mayrhofen - Munich Airport takes 3 hours, for about 200km. Not very fast... The UK train you are comparing with is more than twice as fast on average. Maybe German trains could be faster if they ware allowed to charge more...
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Old May 23rd, 2013, 02:36 PM   #1774
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Mayrhofen - Munich Airport takes 3 hours, for about 200km. Not very fast... The UK train you are comparing with is more than twice as fast on average. Maybe German trains could be faster if they ware allowed to charge more...
It's not that bad. It's getting out of the Zillertal valley first, which is 30km. Takes an hour on the local privatised Zillertalbahn (www.zillertalbahn.at to give you an impression on what that train is like) or 20 mins by car. At Jenbach, at the end of the valley you'll have the option to jump on the ICE which will cost you as much as on any other train, and it will get you to Munich Hbf in one hour. From there the S-Bahn to the airport in 30 mins. I've only done it once, normally I drive.
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Old May 23rd, 2013, 04:23 PM   #1775
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S Bahn Munich



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jwJlHBloKI
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Old May 23rd, 2013, 09:26 PM   #1776
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Can you please take any discussions about UK train fares to the relevant GB rail thread.

Thanks.
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Old May 23rd, 2013, 09:31 PM   #1777
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We've already moved from Britain to Austria, and then we got on the train to Munich.

Geez.
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Old May 24th, 2013, 07:45 AM   #1778
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Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
It's not that bad. It's getting out of the Zillertal valley first, which is 30km. Takes an hour on the local privatised Zillertalbahn (www.zillertalbahn.at to give you an impression on what that train is like) or 20 mins by car. At Jenbach, at the end of the valley you'll have the option to jump on the ICE which will cost you as much as on any other train, and it will get you to Munich Hbf in one hour. From there the S-Bahn to the airport in 30 mins. I've only done it once, normally I drive.
That the ICE will cost you "as much as any other train" is not correct. DB has three product categories. If you take a regional train in stead of an ICE you will pay less. Faster ICE services are also more expensive then slower ones. You need to take this in account when comparing DB's prices with other companies.
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Old May 24th, 2013, 07:48 AM   #1779
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DB wants to move the yearly timetable change to october:

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/p...uestioned.html

Looks like a good plan to me. The second weekend in December is probably the worst possible moment to effectuate a timetable change. DB's suggestion is to use the dates we change to and from daylight savings time. I think that the best solution would probably be to have the major timetable change in March, and the minor one in October.

Last edited by K_; May 24th, 2013 at 08:28 AM.
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Old May 24th, 2013, 08:25 AM   #1780
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That makes a lot of sense. And then they can also scrap a lot of the rules regulating the daylight savings time changes. They used to cover a full 4 pages of the German rule book, whereas for instance in the Netherlands it is a short single paragraph (but where there are several other nonsensical rules, so not everything is better there).
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