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Old May 24th, 2013, 08:35 AM   #1781
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That the ICE will cost you "as much as any other train" is not correct. DB has three product categories. If you take a regional train in stead of an ICE you will pay less. Faster ICE services are also more expensive then slower ones. You need to take this in account when comparing DB's prices with other companies.
At Jenbach I can buy a ticket to Munich at any time of the day and buy a ticket to Munich and use any train I wish for the same price. This includes IC, ICE, RE, EC or the S-Bahn. Either DB or ÖBB. It's on a ÖBB ticket.
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Old May 24th, 2013, 09:22 AM   #1782
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At Jenbach I can buy a ticket to Munich at any time of the day and buy a ticket to Munich and use any train I wish for the same price. This includes IC, ICE, RE, EC or the S-Bahn. Either DB or ÖBB. It's on a ÖBB ticket.
When you buy a ticket Jenbach - München in Jenbach you don't buy an ÖBB ticket. You buy an international ticket, and the price is calculated according to the SCIC-NRT tariff. With such a ticket you can indeed take any train, as DB considers it equal to a ticket at ICE price level. It will (if I'm not mistaken) cost you 33,- euro to München.

Now if you look up times and prices on the DB website you'll notice something:
- Jenbach to München with the EC costs you 32,50 but using regional trains it's 28,60. This is because here the DB uses the SCIC-NRT tariff only for the Austrian part, and uses it's own domestic tariff for the DB part. And the domestic DB tariff has different prices for different levels of trains.
(BTW, you might not have noticed, but if you buy your ticket in Austria you'll pay VAT on the Austrian part, but not on the German part. If you buy it from DB you'll pay VAT on the German part, but not on the Austrian part...)

And faster ICEs are more expensive then slower ones:
For example: Köln - Frankfurt is 69,- on an ICE via the new line, 49,- if you go via the old line, 46,- if you take an IC, and 37,50 if you take local trains. Cheapest advance fare is 19,-
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Old May 24th, 2013, 09:46 AM   #1783
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Wow! German train travel is even more complicated than I thought! You're right about the Jenbach to Munich price.

One time I traveled by train from Mayrhofen to Sneek, Netherlands and back one week later. I bought the return tickets one day before departure at Jenbach. Jenbach - Sneek costed at around 200€, and I was entitled to use any train I wanted at anytime of the day, including ICE. No seat reservations. My return journey costed around 55€, again no seat reservations, but I had to stick with the trains and times as printed on the ticket, including the local Arriva train in the Netherlands, two ICEs from Arnhem to Munich and an EC to Italy calling at Jenbach. Of course I've missed my connection in Munich, so they've stamped my ticket which entitled me to use any train home.
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Old May 24th, 2013, 12:40 PM   #1784
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Actually it is international train travel, which is really complicated. Domestic tickets are far simplier. However for trains of DB Fernverkehr (IC, ICE trains) it can be a little bit complicated, too.
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Old May 24th, 2013, 02:48 PM   #1785
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They should abolish year timetable changes altogether. Just roll schedule changes whenever there is a substantial number of proposed changes accumulated on the desk, more or less like airlines do with their own schedules.

This being said, if a fixed timetable change D-day is to exist, 2 weeks prior to Christmas is the worst period to do it.
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Old May 24th, 2013, 02:59 PM   #1786
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You can't do it like that at any time on short notice. People use trains daily to go to work, you can't expect them to check the timetables first before they set their alarms. Train departures are already unreliable enough as it is...
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Old May 24th, 2013, 03:23 PM   #1787
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One change yearly has a very good reason: train schedules (unlike plane schedules) make a very large network of cennecting train and bus services. So if you change the scheduling of one train, you must reschedule all the connecting trains and buses, and all the buses that connect to a connecting train...
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Old May 24th, 2013, 03:37 PM   #1788
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Once a year is fine, but not every time they feel like it, which is what Suburbanist suggests.
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Old May 24th, 2013, 05:12 PM   #1789
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Quote:
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They should abolish year timetable changes altogether. Just roll schedule changes whenever there is a substantial number of proposed changes accumulated on the desk, more or less like airlines do with their own schedules.
Anything to make rail travel less attractive is OK with you it appears...
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Old May 24th, 2013, 06:45 PM   #1790
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Once a year is fine, but not every time they feel like it, which is what Suburbanist suggests.
I'm not suggesting they do it every other day, but that they do it whenever they have reason for major adjustments. Likely once every few months, always with advance announcements.

This way, we'd stop this situation whereas a new infrastructure project is completed (say, Stuttgart Hbf.) but timetables are not improved for other 2/3 months for the only reason of expecting a fixed timetable schedule change.
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Old May 24th, 2013, 07:15 PM   #1791
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I'm not suggesting they do it every other day, but that they do it whenever they have reason for major adjustments. Likely once every few months, always with advance announcements.

This way, we'd stop this situation whereas a new infrastructure project is completed (say, Stuttgart Hbf.) but timetables are not improved for other 2/3 months for the only reason of expecting a fixed timetable schedule change.
So basically if an airport manages to finish som extension a few months ahead of time they are allowed just tell the airlines: "Half of you now have to move your flights to the afternoon as of next wednesday". That fine with you?

The reason why timetable changes need to be carefully planned is that changing a train path has effects everywhere. DB can't for example just say to the SBB: From next month on the ICE's from Freiburg will arrive 10 minutes earlier in Basel. Just doesn't work.
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Old May 24th, 2013, 11:01 PM   #1792
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In the Netherlands you already see that although the biggest changes still happen in December the fixed timetable changes that happen every 2 or 3 months become more and more important. They are not just there for rolling stock adjustments but also for some major timetable changes.

I wouldn't be surprised that this will happen more and more, so much that it will indeed be the end of the regular yearly timetable. And this might actually happen because the timetables are so complex, having more moments that a change can take place will make it easier for the planners then always having to wait for that 1 moment in December. It makes it more easier to make changes in phases, for example when new infrastructure projects are not fully completed on time.

The winter timetable in the Netherlands is also a good example of railways becoming more flexible. The ability to change the timetable with just 1 days notice for extreme weather can also be used for other events, like major disruptions or sudden changes in traffic flows. It shows that the railways are not static organizations anymore when it comes to timetables. The computers and the software that the planners use also get better every year, making it easier to plan complex changes.

But I don't think this will mean that the whole timetable will become fully dynamic, most of the trains will keep the same timings all through the year. Simply because a majority of the customers don't want to constantly change their travel patterns. Changes should only be made for the better, not for change itself.
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Old May 25th, 2013, 06:30 PM   #1793
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In the Netherlands things are a bit different, in that trains run so frequently on all routes that changes in one part don't have big effects on other parts.

In Germany it's different. When the NBS Wendlingen - Ulm will be put in service the timetable of all IC/ICE west of Stuttgart will change. This might also require changes in the timings of trains from the South-East to the North. This will anyway require changes to all local trains, all buses feeding those trains etc.
When the NBS Mattstetten - Rothrist opened in 2004 the timetable of 75% op de the Swiss trains changed. Idem when the LGV Rhin - Rhone opened. Things like that need careful planning in advance. The 2004 SBB timetable was 20 years in the making...
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Old May 25th, 2013, 06:52 PM   #1794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
In the Netherlands things are a bit different, in that trains run so frequently on all routes that changes in one part don't have big effects on other parts.

In Germany it's different. When the NBS Wendlingen - Ulm will be put in service the timetable of all IC/ICE west of Stuttgart will change. This might also require changes in the timings of trains from the South-East to the North. This will anyway require changes to all local trains, all buses feeding those trains etc.
When the NBS Mattstetten - Rothrist opened in 2004 the timetable of 75% op de the Swiss trains changed. Idem when the LGV Rhin - Rhone opened. Things like that need careful planning in advance. The 2004 SBB timetable was 20 years in the making...
Really? In that case how is the work on post-Gotthard/Ceneri base tunnel timetable proceeding?
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Old May 25th, 2013, 09:38 PM   #1795
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Really? In that case how is the work on post-Gotthard/Ceneri base tunnel timetable proceeding?
Quite well I asume. Some details have already been published. The definitive timetable will be ready in 2014, for an opening in December 2016.
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Old May 26th, 2013, 12:26 AM   #1796
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Looks like a good plan to me. The second weekend in December is probably the worst possible moment to effectuate a timetable change. DB's suggestion is to use the dates we change to and from daylight savings time. I think that the best solution would probably be to have the major timetable change in March, and the minor one in October.
With major engineering works done mainly in spring, summer and autumn it makes more sense to change time tables at the end of the year and not in spring. It is therefore rather favourable to change very little in the year.
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Old June 3rd, 2013, 07:26 PM   #1797
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I have read that all trains through Rosenheim, Bavaria are cancelled due to the flood. What does is it look like in the Dresden area, Sachsen?

Any trains cancelled yet ?
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Old June 3rd, 2013, 08:07 PM   #1798
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No. All trains from Munich going Austria bound are cancelled. Nothing else.
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Old June 5th, 2013, 03:14 PM   #1799
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There is information on that on http://www.bahn.de/blitz/view/index.shtml. However, things can change quite rapidly in these hours.
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Old June 5th, 2013, 09:54 PM   #1800
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Quote:
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There is information on that on http://www.bahn.de/blitz/view/index.shtml. However, things can change quite rapidly in these hours.
To sum up that info in English:
- no trains at all between Rosenheim and Salzburg, trains Munich-Vienna are redirected via Passau (+30/60 min)
- trains between Prague and Dresden run on a different route through the Czech R. and have 120 min delays
- no trains from Munic to G.-Partenkirchen or beyond
- trains via Rosenheim - Innsbruck are running, albeit a few cancellations
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