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Old November 25th, 2013, 11:16 AM   #1901
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Slightly off-topic, but it's interesting to see Stuttgart moving ahead with big projects like Stuttgart-21 while Munich doesn't do much.
Well, at least Munich is completing the tunnels on the middle ring road and has finally chosen to build the second trunk section for the S-Bahn. Munich does also have a real subway, real trams,etc. whereas Stuttgart calls her trams Subway... Munich21 is not really necessary since the system in our great little state is very much centred on Munich(have you ever heard about "Paris21" or "London21"?)
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Old November 25th, 2013, 11:15 PM   #1902
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Well, at least Munich is completing the tunnels on the middle ring road and has finally chosen to build the second trunk section for the S-Bahn. Munich does also have a real subway, real trams,etc. whereas Stuttgart calls her trams Subway... Munich21 is not really necessary since the system in our great little state is very much centred on Munich(have you ever heard about "Paris21" or "London21"?)
Madrid has not 1 but 2 rail tunels north-south for suburban rail lines with a third U/C for HST
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Old November 26th, 2013, 12:26 AM   #1903
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Madrid also is about 3 times bigger than Munich and did get quite some money from EU infrastructure funds.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 05:15 AM   #1904
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Madrid also is about 3 times bigger than Munich and did get quite some money from EU infrastructure funds.
And Madrid is the hub for Spain's HSR, not a terminus.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 09:02 AM   #1905
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Madrid also is about 3 times bigger than Munich and did get quite some money from EU infrastructure funds.
Which is why Germany can't have more railway infrastructure project. They first have to pay off the Spanish (and Greek) projects...
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Old November 26th, 2013, 11:19 AM   #1906
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That is not the reason. We all know Germany underspends on rail infrastructure, both maintenance of existing lines and investment into new ones.
As a country with considerable automobile production, all German governments are thralls to the car lobby. Or could you imagine that instead of the "Verschrottungspämie" a few years ago, the subvention for buying newer, heavier and more polluting cars, the German government would have distributed free BahnCard50s to the voting populace?
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Old November 26th, 2013, 11:27 AM   #1907
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Other countries have had cash for clunkers schemes as well. Providing people with free BahnCard50s wouldn't really have done much in the way of aiding economic growth either.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 11:35 AM   #1908
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That is not the reason. We all know Germany underspends on rail infrastructure, both maintenance of existing lines and investment into new ones.
As a country with considerable automobile production, all German governments are thralls to the car lobby.
Negative. The Geman road network, too, is heavily underfinanced.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 01:07 PM   #1909
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Madrid also is about 3 times bigger than Munich and did get quite some money from EU infrastructure funds.
I was refering to London and Paris rather than Munich and HST tunneling costed around 300 million Eur which came mostly from our own pockets

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Which is why Germany can't have more railway infrastructure project. They first have to pay off the Spanish (and Greek) projects...
I don´t think this is the place for such talk but we can talk about how much German products do we import starting by more than 20 Siemens Velaro

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Old November 27th, 2013, 06:12 AM   #1910
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Could the lack of money for infrastructure has something to do with the amount of money given to poorer EU countries by Germany?

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Old November 27th, 2013, 01:26 PM   #1911
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Could the lack of money for infrastructure has something to do with the amount of money given to poorer EU countries by Germany?
No, there is no lack of money actually. Deutsche Bahn makes billions of Euros in profits each year. The publicly-owned company doesn't invest this money back in the German railway network though. The government as well could lend money almost for free and invest in its own transport networks, but doesn't do it. It is therefore not a lack of funds but a lack of political will to spend money on transport infrastructure.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 04:17 PM   #1912
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German tax revenue increased remarkably this year. In fact negotiations about a new coalition government are focusing on what to do with that extra money. Besides education, there is a serious case to do at least something partial about the lack of infrastructure spending. The minister of transport threatened he would soon have to start shuting down some older rail bridges if he does not get more money.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 11:58 PM   #1913
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Well, at least Munich is completing the tunnels on the middle ring road and has finally chosen to build the second trunk section for the S-Bahn. Munich does also have a real subway, real trams,etc. whereas Stuttgart calls her trams Subway... Munich21 is not really necessary since the system in our great little state is very much centred on Munich(have you ever heard about "Paris21" or "London21"?)
True, but I was talking about general developments in Munich. There don't seem to much going on over there.
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Old November 28th, 2013, 10:51 AM   #1914
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Not really true.
The scale of infrastructure projects which were completed the last few years, are under construction or will be in the near future are pretty impressive for a 1.3 mln city.
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Old November 28th, 2013, 06:19 PM   #1915
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Not really true.
The scale of infrastructure projects which were completed the last few years, are under construction or will be in the near future are pretty impressive for a 1.3 mln city.
Impressive for a city of 1.3 million maybe. München, however, has already a population of 1.5 million and is expected to grow even further. To cope with this growth these projects are little more than the bare minimum. And more will be needed in the future.
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Old November 28th, 2013, 08:49 PM   #1916
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The 1.5 million are a wrong number, it was 1.388 mln at Dec. 1st 2012.
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Old November 29th, 2013, 02:55 PM   #1917
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The 1.5 million are a wrong number, it was 1.388 mln at Dec. 1st 2012.
It isn't so wrong. It is a matter of months when München reaches this mark.
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Old November 29th, 2013, 03:37 PM   #1918
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So it is wrong indeed. Case closed.
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Old November 29th, 2013, 06:25 PM   #1919
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So it is wrong indeed. Case closed.
It is not wronger than the number of 1.3 million.
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Old November 29th, 2013, 06:42 PM   #1920
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The 1.388 are the official number published by the statistic offices. The 1.5 is your wet dream for some point in the future. Can you spot the difference?
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